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May 1, 2023

Card Mensches E11 Hobby Negativity: Why it occurs & how to navigate around & through it

Card Mensches E11 Hobby Negativity: Why it occurs & how to navigate around & through it

"Card Mensches" Brought to you by SGC, Center Stage HQ & Robert Edwards Auction. A new format for Sports Talk and Sports Cards!"




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"Card Mensches" Brought to you by SGC, Center Stage HQ & Robert Edwards Auction. A new format for Sports Talk and Sports Cards!"





SPEAKER 2: Hey, I'm Danny Black and I'm John Newman.

SPEAKER 1: Welcome to Car Match.

SPEAKER 1: Well, hi, I'm still Danny Black and that's Sean Newman.

SPEAKER 1: And welcome to episode number 12 of card benches.

SPEAKER 1: And we'd like to give a special welcome to our new sponsor R E A for more than 30 years.

SPEAKER 3: Robert Edward Auctions has been the nation's premier auction house specializing in sports, memorabilia and trading cards with significant experience and expertise in all major sport, non sport and Americana collectibles.

SPEAKER 3: R E A has helped clients achieve record prices for their items and has done so with a reputation for integrity and transparency by actively partnering with collectors and enthusiasts throughout the entire process. R E A has created the hobby's most trusted forum for selling high quality collectibles. Go to Robert Edward Auctions dot com for more information on how to buy or sell in their next auction.

SPEAKER 1: And welcome back. And I like to welcome everybody to a special edition of Card Mensches. You know, we, we think a Mensch is defined by somebody who has certain qualities. And I'm gonna put our definition up on the screen here that we like to use, a Mensch is a kind, thoughtful and honorable person.

SPEAKER 1: So, using that, I think, tonight we want to delve a little bit into, some hobby negativity that seems to creep around and, you know, why can't we just all, you know, enjoy people on cardboard a little bit more positively.

SPEAKER 1: And it seems like a simple question. But, John, you and I, kind of battle with, the hobby negativity on a regular basis.

SPEAKER 1: So I think we're gonna try to tackle this tonight. How are you?

SPEAKER 2: Good. You know, it's a subject in, hi, Hodges. Chris Ramsey. Hello. Thanks for, for being with us tonight.

SPEAKER 2: It's a subject, you know, a lot of creators, a lot of people in the house hobby don't like to broach upon. Right. They deal with it.

SPEAKER 2: And, as everyone does, I think there's very few in the hobby that don't deal with negativity.

SPEAKER 2: At some point sometimes it's directed at you and sometimes it's, you see it directed at somebody else. Right.

SPEAKER 2: The good part of this equation.

SPEAKER 2: Danny, as you well know, is, right. 90% of people in the hobby are great people. Right. And then you have that 10%.

SPEAKER 2: But sometimes that 10% has a loud voice. Right. It feels like it's more than 10% when it's really only a small percentage. And I wanted to kind of to do this. This one was was sort of my idea not to highlight it, not to give those folks that kind of thrive in that world any more attention because most of the time that's what they're looking for. Right. That's what they want.

SPEAKER 2: But I think I wanted to talk about, you know, I've done content creation now for, for almost five years. Obviously, I've been in the hobby, almost 40.

SPEAKER 2: And just, just things I kind of want to talk where it comes from, in general and how I deal with it, how you deal with it where it doesn't have to ruin your day or really take, take the fun out of the hobby. This is like, I know I use this quote all the time.

SPEAKER 2: Right. We from Dr Jim, the greatest hobby, in the world. And, you know, I, I, there's a way to not let some folks try to ruin it for you and maybe they don't feel the same way, and they try to get you on their boat and, and how to sort of steer clear of that.

SPEAKER 1: And I think when we're talking, we're talking about the whole hobby. So we're talking about content creation. We're talking about even I've had interactions with dealers or, or with customers. So I think just negativity in general.

SPEAKER 1: I think you and I both like to stay away from, you agree.

SPEAKER 2: I, I, I, I do and, and, and, and, and it's hard. Right. Let's be real. Sometimes it's hard. You want, you know what you're, what's in your head and what you type out are, are for me a lot of times, two different things to be a, 100% transparent. Right. But, you know, the, the old cliche, right?

SPEAKER 2: You want to be the bigger person, the bigger man, you know, turn the other cheek and, you know, I, I, I guess this is where kind of having Jackie Robinson as sort of your idol, can come into, you know, handy because, you know, you learn from him like, you know, it's not worth it, right? It's not worth it. They're trying to win by getting your attention.

SPEAKER 2: And so the first thing I, I, I think I want to touch on, Danny is where it comes from, right? Like you, you don't want to paint with a bra, a broad brush. But where does a lot of the negative? Why are people negative? Right.

SPEAKER 2: And I, and there's not one answer to this, right? I think some people just wake up unhappy and combative, right?

SPEAKER 2: Maybe things are not going great and they're their own lives personally, professionally.

SPEAKER 2: And if that's the case, I, I hope that changes for all those folks, right? I don't root against people. So I think sometimes it comes from there. Right. Generally, sometimes unhappy people trying to make other people unhappy. So, they don't feel unhappy by themselves.

SPEAKER 1: Right. And that's, and that's not unique to the hobby. That, that, that's kind of, yeah, it is.

SPEAKER 2: Well, a lot of this is really human nature. It's just, we're gonna, we're gonna relate to it from a hobby, perspective. Right. But this, yeah, sure, this could be at work. Right. We all work with somebody who's the negative person. Right. Nothing's going. Right. The boss is terrible. Even when they do something good, they find one negative thing, you know, free pizza Friday. Oh, it's always pizza.

SPEAKER 2: Why don't we get some sometimes, right. That guy.

SPEAKER 2: Or, or, or poor girl. Right.

SPEAKER 2: So a lot of times it's, it's, it comes from an unhappy person sometimes. Maybe they're not unhappy, maybe they actually have a point. They don't like something but then they make it personal, right?

SPEAKER 2: And that's a line you crossed too. Like I listen, I've been on my own show and say, man, that was a bad move by this company or that was a terrible, but, you know, we're critical of becket. I'll use a recent example. Right.

SPEAKER 2: But we don't make it personal, you know, I'll even say things like there's a lot of smart people in that beck room. How does that happen? Right.

SPEAKER 2: You don't make it personal, you can get your opinion without making it sort of a personal attack and, you know, it's, and, and some people just thrive on being nasty. Right. They're, they're just, that's what they want to do, want attention. Right. A lot of it's for attention.

SPEAKER 2: I'm gonna say something and get so and so to react. Look at me, look what I did. I got him to on a live, you know, whether, you know, a live show, he went off script or he stopped the show to refer to me. A lot of it's egotistical, comes from an an egotistical plate I got.

SPEAKER 2: So and so to, you know, point me out and said, you know, look at me and you know, it, it's more than that, right? Those are just kind of three examples that I came up with, right? There's more and you know, and so how do I, you know, I don't, I, I don't know if you want me to talk about how I deal with or you wanna add anything to you?

SPEAKER 1: Well, I, I, I wanna touch on a comment here. Do you mind if I respond?

SPEAKER 1: So the comment is how do you balance a fine line between watchdogs awareness and negativity?

SPEAKER 1: And I think that's kind of the crux of a lot of what I wanted to talk about tonight, which is, where's the appropriate form? Are you talking about the, the corporate side of the business? And are you talking about Beckett? Are you talking about collectors fanatics? And are you, and are you criticizing those companies.

SPEAKER 1: Because that, that, that's important is to keep an eye on the companies that supply our products and, and, and, you know, where we give our money to and things like that. So I think that's, you know, an important thing to, to keep an eye on to make sure that there is, you know, no sham going on that there is not fake tents coming out the back door of a grading company or, you know, stuff like that.

SPEAKER 1: Those are all, you know, legitimate things to keep an eye on. Getting personal with people is a different line. And especially if it's non-professional content creators or people who work at a company but have no influence on major decisions who are just doing their job to attack them. To me is different.

SPEAKER 2: That, and I want to come out with the watchdog and, and good evening Brendan. Good to see you.

SPEAKER 2: We all watchdogs. I don't believe in self or deputizing, yourself. Right. If you love the hobby, if you care about your fellow hobbies, we're all watchdogs like much like a lot of times my content, your content, other people's content is, hey, be aware of this or watch out for this pothole or this is going on, right. We're all watchdogs.

SPEAKER 2: It's not an, a point, a position.

SPEAKER 2: This isn't the stock exchange, commodities where they have people who get who that's in their title. And are paid actually for that to audit and check and make sure everything's above more. We don't really have that in the hobby. The closest thing we have to that day sometimes when you hear the FBI or federal agents are looking at stuff, at certain companies in the hobby.

SPEAKER 2: But as far as normal hobbyists, we are watchdogs. Right. The tagline of my shows, the hobbies, the people I've had, I'm a dealer. I have people come up to me at a, at a show and, you know, talk about this card or they've taken a picture of it and maybe I know it's by, just by the picture itself.

SPEAKER 2: I'm like, that's a reprint or that's a, and I, you know, I just say, hey, just so, you know, that's not the, the general and that's not the real mccoy just, be careful there. Right. I, I help that person out. I hope and so that am I a watchdog? Not in the true sense of the word, but I will help anybody out, you know, but do it the right, right way.

SPEAKER 2: It's not a smear campaign. It's not a personal attack, it's not an attack ad, you know, like we see in the, in the political realm.

SPEAKER 2: And so I don't, I think we're all watchdogs. And so when I hear someone say I'm a watchdog, I, I guess they're not wrong because I, we all are. But when that, that really becomes, you know, I just don't want it to be everything, you know, I like to talk about the good stuff, as well, so I like to be sort of a balance there.

SPEAKER 1: So I'm working on the 1957 top set and if I were to do a show just talking about me putting together the 1957 top set and I have, I'm gonna get some feedback.

SPEAKER 1: And that's gonna be critical and I can deal with that. I, you know, it's a YouTube show if somebody wants to watch.

SPEAKER 1: But it takes away the fun of collecting for a lot of people.

SPEAKER 1: And you, what was the number you gave before? 90 10, that 90% of the hobby?

SPEAKER 2: 90 90% of the hobby are good people.

SPEAKER 2: He's talking about repacks. I don't know what he's talking about. I've never bought a repack. I've never sold the repack. He's doing his own show. Enjoy that in the chat rooms. The, no, happy hour there.

SPEAKER 2: It's 90% of the people are good. Right. It's 10%. Maybe they're unhappy in their professional life. They lost their kids, they lost their job, they're pissed off.

SPEAKER 2: And so they trying to make other people miserable. How do you, how do you avoid that?

SPEAKER 2: You just don't give them what they want. Right. You know, you don't give them what they want.

SPEAKER 1: Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the reverse. I'd love to know and, and also from people in the chat, how do we enjoy the hobby? Like, if I just want to collect my cards and talk about collecting my cards, I, that's one of my favorite things to do.

SPEAKER 1: I, I, I'm serious, I'm working on this 57 set. If anybody has extra commons duplicate, you know, please, you know, let me know. I'm trying to put this thing together. It's an expensive set. I would love to talk about that.

SPEAKER 2: But that doesn't generate comments and that doesn't, and, and, and it's a fine line too, you know, sometimes I'll get asked in a private message or direct or an email. Yeah. Why don't you show more of your personal collection or show more of something you require which I recently did yesterday or the day before.

SPEAKER 2: And sometimes I don't always like to do do that because, you know, especially if they're higher priced cards. I always feel like sometimes people don't always have those right? Is it, is it coming across as sort of braggadocious or look what I can acquire or obtain? Right? So I don't always do it. You know, the the biggest card I've ever done it is sitting over my shoulder here on, on my right shoulder with the Jackie Leaf.

SPEAKER 2: But that's my grail card and there was no way I wasn't gonna do that with that card, but there's, there's other cards that I've never done that with. Not because I'm not proud of them or proud of the collection.

SPEAKER 2: I've built, but I always feel like, you know, someone else might take that sort of the wrong way. Oh, John's showing off $1000 card again, like I get it, you know, so there's that, that line, I probably make more about that than it actually is, but that's just how my mind works, right? Danny is, is, you know, how, what you do might affect somebody's death and, and Chris, you know, there's no truth to the rumor.

SPEAKER 1: This is how I was trying to get a Hank Aaron rookie, but it's sad to see in your comment that you witnessed a fight at a card show over a Hank Aaron rookie card years ago on the other side of the show.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, listen without knowing the details, who knows? But we're, we're talking about a, as people always say, picture, pictures of athletes on cardboard at, at some point the seriousness of life and death.

SPEAKER 1: And, and the way we wish we treat each other has to be kept in perspective.

SPEAKER 2: Another place too, Danny. I'm I, I, you know, when we talked about reasons why people are negative or nasty, a lot of it comes from places of jealousy, right? Oh, I wish I was doing that or I wish I had that and you and maybe that, that's not in the realm of possibility and it's just easier to take a, a cheap shot. Makes you feel better about yourself, at least temporarily.

SPEAKER 2: And then in your quiet moments you're back to your own reality, whatever that may be. So, you know, it's funny in and kind of my career change. Danny, this is, you know, getting into, I work, for those that don't know, some do know, I work in the special, special education department as a teaching assistant at the high school level. Right.

SPEAKER 2: And so many of these kids, right. And, and, and it's sad, right? They, they have home life and, and sometimes they come to school and they bring that, that angst and that anxiety to school with them and it's, you know, my job and my, my fellow staff job to sort of sort that out and be there for those folks, but sometimes we bear the, the, the, the wrath of that, right.

SPEAKER 2: We're, we're called names or, you know, get the F US and, and that sort of thing. I don't have to listen to you and, and all that, right? And then, you know, so there's one, you know, we talk about that 90 10, right? So there's that 10% of that and then there's a 90% right where I get, hey Mr Newman, thanks for, for talking with me. Thanks for walking around the school.

SPEAKER 2: You know, I've talked to you more than I've spoken to my own father. He doesn't listen to me. I feel like you do. Right.

SPEAKER 2: So, it's, it's, it's a microcosm of, of, of the hobby is a microcosm of life. You know, 90% get it. 10% are just gonna be sort of miserable. You can try to help, you can try to help and maybe be a difference for the 10%. But sometimes it's, it's, I hate to say it like this. Sometimes you're just not going to win that battle.

SPEAKER 2: And you just got to focus on the people who care and want to want to be happy, right?

SPEAKER 2: And I've seen, you know, I've only done it for a couple of years and I've seen a kid from last year really turn a quarter, turn a corner this year and become really a productive, Young, Young man in, in, in his case and almost like a different kid from one year to the next and, and when you see that and you know, you, you know, you're part of even a small part of impact of that. It's you know, it's a good feeling.

SPEAKER 1: Well, good on you. First of all, you know how I feel about what you do and I've told you that.

SPEAKER 1: I, I love this comment. Doctor Beckett, quote, it's a 80 20 thing. 10%.

SPEAKER 1: I don't love you 10%. Hate you. And the other 80% are indifferent Brendan. I would love to agree with you.

SPEAKER 2: But I think 1% like me, 10% and the other 80 nine and, and are, are, are different and 11 thing, one thing that helps me navigate through that, Danny. You know, how do you turn the other cheek? How do you ignore the white noise? It's very easy and it's gonna be about as cocky as I'm gonna get it tonight is. And people know this, right.

SPEAKER 2: 80% of those 20% bad people are behind the keyboard, behind a phone screen, typing stuff. They would never say to your face quite frankly for maybe obvious reasons, maybe not so obvious. And so I, I take that with a grain of salt, right? I, I just say, what are you gonna do, man? You can't respond to all these stupid. I don't have time quite frankly. I have AAA family even though my son, he's older.

SPEAKER 2: He still, he still lives here. He's 23.

SPEAKER 2: He's also in student teaching. So we talk about school and, and, and, and do a lot of stuff like that. So I like to go on my deck and, and smoke a cigar and have a, a bourbon be told.

SPEAKER 2: And so I don't have time to go down that rabbit hole. Look at my watch and it's two hours later, right? And I'm like holy smoke.

SPEAKER 2: I just lost two hours. I could have been on my deck, relaxing with a drink, maybe even fall asleep in a Hammock chair. Play with my dog. Talk to my wife. Right.

SPEAKER 2: All right.

SPEAKER 1: I just, I don't need to know.

SPEAKER 1: I don't even know.

SPEAKER 2: But, you know, there's so much other stuff you can really lose time and it's a battle. You'll never win. You never, it's like an argument. You both people feel like they're right.

SPEAKER 2: You're never really gonna win.

SPEAKER 2: Unless it's a fact one, right where there's facts and law and even then in my older age, I'm like, I'm just not, I just, I'm gonna spend time doing stuff that I enjoy more than debating with somebody. You know, my son likes to debate politics and I don't even like to do that with him. So I'm not gonna debate with some dude, you know, 2500 miles away. About something silly.

SPEAKER 1: Well, I will say that you don't want to debate unless it's the Steelers on the clock during the NFL draft. And then you've, then you've become very debatable.

SPEAKER 2: So I'm the worst. Like, like I'm yelling at the screen so far though. I like this draft. So I, I, I haven't had so many, yelling, yelling, moments there, there's one for you, Newman.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, we do have some good pizza in New York. I'd be line and I have the belly to, to back that up. So, yeah, that, and it's a Draft Day tradition here. And Brendan's, I'm friends with Brendan on Facebook so he gets to see some of the stuff. Maybe they don't always post on, like, hobby, social media, Draft Day tradition here for me and my son, we get pizza and wings and we watch who the Steelers, take with that.

SPEAKER 2: So, we've done that. He's 23. He's done that since he's like seven.

SPEAKER 2: Well, Brendon, listen, I'll say this and, and this is 23.

SPEAKER 2: No, if Brendan's ever in the, in the same city at the same time, he, he has an invite just, he's got to let me know, another one only because this is one of my favorite movies.

SPEAKER 1: It's like in war games. The only way to win is not to play, fantastic movie, with Matthew Broderick.

SPEAKER 1: Great eighties movie, by the way, how about treating new people coming into the hobby? I've seen people belittle, new people at card shows. Sad to see.

SPEAKER 1: This came up, as, or this has come up in a couple of different forms, new people in the hobby, kids in the hobby, women in the hobby. You know, it, it seems like anybody who, who's not the old guard, faces some of that in the hobby.

SPEAKER 1: And I think if we're talking about negativity, we should point out you know, some of the behavior of some, some dealers and some, some card collectors, because it's not Mensch like, yeah, it's, I spoke about this on, on today's episode with, Kayla Kayla Swor.

SPEAKER 2: Right.

SPEAKER 2: It used to be worse. I will say this. It, you know, I, I've done shows since 1987. It used to be a lot worse. So we've made strides. There's always room for more improvement. Right. It's still happening. Chris is. Chris is right. Right.

SPEAKER 2: It's to get off my lawn guy. Right. I was here first. Right.

SPEAKER 2: And I've been doing this since 1979. So my is pretty big, but I was new in 1979. Right. But many people, people were very friendly and nice as that seven year old and doing my first show as a 15 year old and I'm not gonna go through the whole time. A lot of people knows what it is. Did you know? Did I have any negative, scenarios?

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. When I did my first show at 15, a couple of people said, hey, I'm interested in the card and, and not even, it wasn't terrible, but they're like, when your dad gets back here I can I talk to him about, you know, and I'm like, no, this is my stuff. Right. They didn't, no, they weren't being necessarily nasty.

SPEAKER 2: But I have seen, you know, nastiness or, you know, and when we talk about females in the hobby there's, you know, the, the perception. Oh, they don't know as much as a guy or they're not. I'm a, I'm a sports guy too. They don't know sports like I do and listen, I have a wife that's well versed in, in a couple of sports. So I don't, I, I know better to make that assumption on anyone. I wouldn't do it anyway.

SPEAKER 2: But I think, because my wife is a sports, it's all the more reason I know that not to that. Right. And you're a product of your environment as, as they say, it's gotten better. But we still have room, for improvement. I think we're more accepting as, as a hobby in two in 2023 than let's say we were in 20 or, or even back for all right.

SPEAKER 1: Well, then to kind of put a bow tie on, on this topic. How do, how do we stay enjoyable in the hobby? How do we have fun but not get taken for suckers? I think that's kind of what everybody's worried about. And I think that's where the, the, the fear comes down to is nobody wants to be taken for a fool.

SPEAKER 1: And I think that's, you know, the fine line that, that we do have to worry about.

SPEAKER 1: But it, you know, we, we, we can do it. How, how would you listen, you're asking me, you answer your own question first and, and I'll give you my, I think that when companies make mistakes, it's fair to, to, to call out a company and hold them accountable and, and to give them feedback.

SPEAKER 1: I think when, people are talking cards and it's their personal collection, respect everybody's individual rights to collect how they personally enjoy to collect that. Those are, I think that the, the, the kind of the Yin and Yang imbalance for me, between, you know, good feedback and good watchdog and, and, and making it personal in somebody's, you know, own process of enjoying the hobby for me.

SPEAKER 2: Like I, I've been on, on my own show and said, hey, you know, when I said this or when I thought that I was actually wrong, right? I think humidity, right? Being able to be human enough to say my bad, I got that wrong.

SPEAKER 2: Right. A lot of times we just hear about infant, we just hear about all the W S Right. Oh, man. Remember when I told you to buy this guy? See what I told you, he's batting 3 50 with 23 home runs. I was right. But I'll, you know, and, and I'm not saying I wouldn't do that, but I also tell you, hey, I got three binders full of Greg Jeffrey Rookies, right?

SPEAKER 1: So you guys talk about, that's a good thing to admit.

SPEAKER 2: I keep telling you this but admit like you don't, no one gets everything right. Nobody. Ok. So, I think people appreciate dandy. I think people find it refreshing. At least I, I do, a glass bottle of coca-cola, Mexican, Mexico Coke.

SPEAKER 2: I think people find it refreshing when you say, hey, my bad or I screwed up here. I made a mistake here. But when I said this I was wrong. Right. I think people, it just shows you're willing to, AAA, take accountability. Right? Something the hobby lost in the last few years as a whole.

SPEAKER 2: And I'm even talking about on the company level, I'm not even talking about content creators. We're talking about companies, right? Accountability, right. No one wanted to, take accountability. There's breakers on screen doing unscrupulous things and the platform sort of turning a blind eye to it. Right. And, and, and more to more than that, more than that. Right.

SPEAKER 2: And so I, I, I take accountability, I like to see accountability, not just on individuals, but, but companies platforms, maybe we're seeing a little bit more of it, but we're, we're definitely not where we need to be, as a hobby. And listen, we're an unregulated hobby. Right. We've heard that on, I did a show about it.

SPEAKER 2: Other people have done shows about it. That's what comes with the territory. Unfortunately, when there are nobody, you know, when there are no real watchdogs, that's why we all have to watch dogs together and, and help each other. Out but do it in a way that's not a personal attack or.

SPEAKER 1: So, one of the questions, in, in, in the chat room, asked about the Adam Sandler movie real quick. My comment on that is, I think everybody's wondering if it's gonna be the baseball card version of Uncut Gems or if it's gonna give it a AAA different, a different angle.

SPEAKER 1: So, you know, I, I, I hope it paints the hobby in a good light. I know there's, you know, been a lot of Hollywood and in the hobby recently.

SPEAKER 2: So, did you see the picture? I gotta ask and, and, and Chris makes a comment. We did have a, a great conversation, via text chat about, about regulating non, I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER 2: Going back to a, did you see the picture of him?

SPEAKER 2: It was sort of like he was caught between, I don't want to be recognized, but I'm probably gonna be recognized, you know, if that was sort of it. And I don't think he was trying to be that inconspicuous. I don't know how long he was at the show that, that was the Long Island, the Long Island National.

SPEAKER 2: They call it, at which is his backyard. He's a New Yorker, like myself. And, and Adam, a guy looking forward to the movie, like you just said, I hope it's just not The Uncut Gems and, and where they replace jewelry with Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams cards. Honus Wagner Cards. Right.

SPEAKER 2: I hope it has a different and maybe that's why he's at the show. Can you learn? I don't know how long he was there? Some of the reports I read. He, he wasn't there a super long time. Maybe just trying to get the vibe of the room and that's at a, at a certain point.

SPEAKER 1: It's probably a crowd following him around. It's not, it doesn't feel like a card show.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, and, and listen, you know how movies are, are shot, right? There's gonna be advisors on set that are from the industry. Hey, here's, here's what this term means, right? The GM man, here's what raw means.

SPEAKER 2: Here's what trim mean, you know, because I'm, I'm, he probably doesn't know the lingo unless he was a card collector already, which I'm assuming he's, he's not, he could buy a lot of nice cards. I'm sure if he, maybe he's a, he's a sports fan.

SPEAKER 1: He's a, he's a die hard sports fan man.

SPEAKER 2: That doesn't mean, I mean that helps, but it doesn't mean you, you collect cards, maybe he will now, maybe he was at the show to buy some cards. We don't even like, I, we don't really know officially. It was just that he was spotted there.

SPEAKER 2: People took pictures like you said, once he's spotted, these people are gonna be crowding up to him asking for autographs. What are you doing here? Hey, I love 51st dates, dude. You know, he's gonna get, hey, man, you know, not a big fan of Little Nicky. What were you thinking?

SPEAKER 2: New York? It's New York. It's, it's New York. So you're gonna get both sides, right? That was terrible. Well, that was the worst Adam Sandler movie ever.

SPEAKER 1: Adam, except they'll say I love you. You're my favorite. I hated that movie.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I love you. I love you. But the movie, not so much, not that one. I love, you know, Big Daddy, daddy.

SPEAKER 2: Daddy. Good Little Nicky Boo. You know. So, so he's gotta be getting all that. I, I don't imagine he was there a long time, a lot of time. They have handlers around them, kind of keep. But how do you do that at a car show? Right. You're gonna start, like, you know, giving the Heisman stiff arm to the hobby is probably not a good look.

SPEAKER 2: So, I, without being there, he's probably there maybe an hour or so. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe even less. Maybe he just wants to check the vibe out and, you know, and look at some showcases, kind of see the cards. He's going to probably have to talk about, pertaining to the movie. And that sort of, you know, there'll be people on set, right?

SPEAKER 2: They're gonna be consultants, you know, and, and that sort of thing. That will, will fill in the blanks, that, you know, he doesn't necessarily have to be at a card show for eight hours. Right. That's why they're actor. So they can play a role. There'll be people on set that, tell him what he needs to know the verbiage. This is what this means. This is what that means.

SPEAKER 2: You know, even when they screw it up. Right. That's why they do, a second take. But, you know, I'm an Adam Sandler fan, so I hope the movie is good. And, again, I hope it's not just, hey, swap out the Emeralds and bring in the Ted Williams. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER 1: Well, and I'd also like to give a peek behind the curtain here we are, live on Friday night. So if you're watching us live, it's during the NFL draft and, quarterback Hendon Hooker just went to the Detroit line, so the last major quarterback is off the board and, if we're still recording, we will stop before the Ravens pick tonight, I can promise you that.

SPEAKER 1: And if you're listening on Monday morning, we're gonna do a little bit of a breakdown. I think of some of our picks.

SPEAKER 1: How's that?

SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: Well, listen, that's, you know, I like that pick, for where they got him. He's a little bit older. They, Tennessee didn't run really a pro style offense. I did not like their first round pick in Jamar Gibbs when you have deandre Swift and you sign David Montgomery.

SPEAKER 2: And you got, I believe Jamal Williams too. Like, what are you picking 1/4 running back? That was to me, that was a head scratcher. We've seen run, you know, running backs became like non first round positions and two of them were taken this year in the first round and Gibbs and be John Robinson and B.

SPEAKER 2: John Robinson went eight, you know, to the Falcons. So like it are running backs, you know, that would probably be maybe, the topic for a longer show are we've seen the return of running back prominence to not just the NFL, but maybe even, even the hobby.

SPEAKER 1: Wait a second.

SPEAKER 4: If John's giving welcome to the failure segment where John and Danny share their picks, sure to go wrong.

SPEAKER 1: Chris says Chiefs got a receiver, look at the Eagles picks.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, the Eagles I, I, I think are, are, are, are serious about making another run for it.

SPEAKER 2: The Eagles, the Eagles draft was good. They took, you know, Jalen Carter kind of a risky pick. That's a, a boom or bust pick, right. That's gonna be either a steal or there's gonna be AAA, right. I thought they drafted, well, I thought the Seahawks drafted, well, the Eagles are now Georgia North.

SPEAKER 2: They, they really are.

SPEAKER 1: They got, they got the four Georgia guys a little start on their head.

SPEAKER 2: They, they got, and I think that sometimes can work, especially if those players are good. Right. They cos I'm gonna be a homer here. Listen, I'm the biggest pessimist. I thought the Steelers so far with these three picks, things have kind of come to them and fall, fell into their lap a little bit.

SPEAKER 2: They've done, very well. They got, you know, they traded up to get Broderick Jones a, a big instant day one starter at, at left tackle and the guy that had a lot of mock drafts had him picking at 17.

SPEAKER 2: They got at 32 in, in Joey Porter Junior who, you know, it's, I, I told you he was gonna end up on Pittsburgh.

SPEAKER 2: Well, they, they do love them. They didn't make a secret about it. It was just whether they would, someone else loved them more to pick him ahead of them. I, I was scared my big fear as a Steelers fan.

SPEAKER 2: Danny was, they were when they traded up to 14 with the Patriots. I was worried they were gonna pick Porter Junior there and that's too high for him. So I'm glad they didn't do it then and they fell to 32 you, that's almost became a no-brainer. You're either gonna trade that pick or you're gonna take your, your guy, at, at 32 which then they got baton with their third round pick.

SPEAKER 2: So not a bad offseason in draft. But again, as you know, as with a Ravens fan, right, you don't necessarily always win the Super Bowl in free agency or Draft Day. Can it help? Yes, I, I feel better today than I did a week ago. But, you know, there's a lot of draft, a couple days of draft left and games to be played well, Lamar just got his extension.

SPEAKER 1: So I actually went to my local card shop, picked up a Lamar and sent it away for grading.

SPEAKER 4: So experience quality consistency and the quickest turnaround times in the grading industry, we are proud to partner with SGC grading, check them out at www dot go SGC dot com.

SPEAKER 1: So I got it but I soon, how quick am I getting to John?

SPEAKER 2: 7 to 10 days?

SPEAKER 2: I got to ask you this, you know, that that was a tense situation. He demanded to trade. He pretty much was, was taking a stance that is he had played his last football in Baltimore as a home team player. Do you think there's any bad taste? Do you think they, these two sides can kind of get obviously money, money heals, you know, a lot of that wound. He's, he's, he's getting paid. But do you think there's any residual effect?

SPEAKER 1: No, I think unfortunately when you're your own agent, you have to say the things out loud that the agents would normally say.

SPEAKER 1: So normally you have an agent that would say we're fielding offers from other teams. We want the, you know, we want Lamar to play in another city next year and, you know, usually that's the role the agent, you know, would, would cover the player's backside a little bit.

SPEAKER 1: But when Lamar doesn't have an agent and he's forced to kind of walk that fine line of still negotiating his contract, but making, you know, some public statements, I, I think everybody will get over it. They got a five year deal that made him the highest paid player in the NFL.

SPEAKER 1: So I, I think everybody will get over that pretty easily.

SPEAKER 2: No, no doubt. What, what surprised you. And let's, let's kind of just focus on the first round because the, the, the draft is still ongoing.

SPEAKER 2: What, what, what stood out or surprised you with the picks in the first round.

SPEAKER 1: I think the Anthony Richardson going to the Colts, was the first big surprise for me.

SPEAKER 1: I liked Houston trading back up, you know, even though they paid a lot for it to go on the back to back picks, whether you're not, whether or not you believe in Strout or, or Anderson and I, I like them, you know, going forward it there two and three.

SPEAKER 1: The, the Ravens took a wide receiver and they don't have a good history of taking wide receivers. So I'm a Z Flowers fan. I like the Ravens pick.

SPEAKER 1: But, but he's a smaller guy. I mean, they, they are comping him to like Steve Smith who had a great career and part of it in Baltimore. So, I, you know, I would be thrilled if it turned into a Steve Smith senior type of player.

SPEAKER 2: You know, and I'm hoping that he doesn't, then it turns into a Miles Boykin.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Where does he play now?

SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah, he's, he's on Pittsburgh but he's not, he doesn't play a lot.

SPEAKER 1: The Ravens, the Ravens got rid of him and, and I forgot where our trash goes.

SPEAKER 1: So I got confused for a second, but thanks for clarify.

SPEAKER 1: So overall, I hope, I hope the streak is broken on wide receivers. That, that, that's my only hesitation, but we've got a new offensive coordinator Todd Monin and talk about having a day or having a week. You got O B J Lamar and Zay Flowers, all, all within a week. So I am Antonio Brown today, which is not true. Please don't start rumors.

SPEAKER 1: Our players are required to wear shirts and shoes for service.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. How about Houston? How about Houston too, like you said, right. They go and get their quarterback, which many people felt was the better one. You know, in some people's draft board and then they, they trade back up to get the very next pick and get Will Anderson who arguably might be the best defensive player in most NFL ready Polish players. So Houston going for it, right, saying, hey, we're, we're tired of losing.

SPEAKER 2: You know, I don't know, you know, obviously we got more rounds to go, but that's a bold statement when you get arguably two of the best three players at the front part of the draft. We're seeing a lot of trades. That's another theme.

SPEAKER 2: We're seeing a lot of people trade up into positions and, you know, so, the Jets did take, I believe a receiver I, I named, they flopped first round picks this year and they picked up, I think a first and a second and, and maybe 1/4 next year or something like, yeah, their second pick was, there was a, a linebacker there, Mike.

SPEAKER 2: They're getting grilled for, Daniel or, or Mick, something. So, which was the pick right after the Steelers. And the rumor was that they, the Jets were going to take Roderick Jones and the Patriots traded down and gate, let Pittsburgh get in front of the Jets to take what they both thought was the Jets guy and the Steelers guy.

SPEAKER 2: So a little gamesmanship there between the Patriots and the Steelers and the Patriots said, hey, we'd rather help someone not in their division than watch someone in our division get a guy that's number one on their draft board. And so, that's, that's all the, the, you know, that's what's coming out with that.

SPEAKER 1: So, one of the things that you asked about surprises or how many mock drafts, more trades and then how many trades there really are. People forget about the, the, the, the trades that just go up one or two spots.

SPEAKER 2: You know, just to leave, you can mock, you can mock players, but it's very hard to mock a trade. Like we don't know, you know, even the Steelers pick at 32. I read a report earlier today that at least 10 teams had called the Steelers to gauge a potential in interest in trading that pick, right?

SPEAKER 2: You have, how do we know like, you know, how do you know that before the draft? Right? That this team and this team, we can, we can kind of do picks because based on team needs or holes or weaknesses, but we don't know who's going to move up, who got, that's hard. That's why no one will ever like ace the draft.

SPEAKER 1: Even even the Mel Kiper and Todd mcshay of the world are, are probably less than, well, look at a situation where most teams thought will love us would be gone in the top 10 and then you come around to the end of the first round, top of the second and a whole bunch of teams, you know, start thinking, oh, my gosh, he's still there and there was rumors that there was a lot of action to try to trade up to the end of the first round last night to the Steelers overnight today, you know, and will love us.

SPEAKER 2: You know, I ended up going in the first couple of years, you know, he's being compared with the, the weight that Aaron Rodgers had, back during his, I watched that that year.

SPEAKER 1: I'll never forget that.

SPEAKER 2: But, oh his face, like if you do like a chronological time, it just got longer and longer, you know, will Levis, you know, got a great arm. But, there's some people say there's some, there's some maturity issues there.

SPEAKER 2: And cocky during interviews, even even during the draft, when they, when the camera would be on him, he'd like pose or make a kind of a goofy face.

SPEAKER 2: So, you know, again, I don't know, I'm not in those interviews, but reports are that he's kind of a, a smug cocky Young kid. Some people might say you kind of need to be that, with that position. Others are like, you know, that doesn't always work. So it'll be interesting to see, you know, and listen, listen, where's the other takeaway?

SPEAKER 2: Right? You know, years ago, you could as a quarterback, you could be behind the starter for 34 or five years then get the job and have a hall of Fame career. A K A Steve Young, right? And others, Aaron Rodgers behind Far Steve Young, behind Montana. Those days are over. You see how fast the the switch was, pulled on.

SPEAKER 1: We had Tyler Huntley.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, we had Huntley, Jack Wilson, you know, Mike White became the darling and the Jet and Tennessee is already out on Malik Willis. He barely threw the pass.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. So, so it's, you've got to do it right away now, if you're a quarterback and that's why I think picking a quarterback that only has one or two college years is a risky proposition.

SPEAKER 2: But at the same time, you know, you, I'll use my own team, right? The, the Steelers were picked, get last year. He's already 24 years old when they drafted him. Well, that's good because maybe he's more polished his window of playing time. I is shorter. So it's that, that the deal with the devil, right?

SPEAKER 2: Maybe you get someone more ready to play. But, your, your, you know, your years you can play are, are shorter. So I guess it depends on what you think. Look, Tray Lance and San Francisco is the odd man out already. He barely, he barely got it chance to win or lose.

SPEAKER 2: You know, the last pick in the draft, like, you know, just a, kind of an afterthought. So the, the the window of opportunity for, for rookie and Young quarterbacks is small and, and quick and you, you better show some flashes or they're gonna turn the page and, and you're gonna be either a backup or potentially playing in the X F L for one of these other offshoot leagues. And, you know, it's, it's crazy.

SPEAKER 1: This is a little bit off topic. We didn't talk about it, but the, the question about how many quarterbacks went in the first round made me think about it. What do you think about the tops? Now, pre choosing first round quarterbacks and having contracts with only some and not all, talk about how hard that is to, to mock a first round and to, to figure out who to make deals with.

SPEAKER 2: It's tough. I mean, all the, the mock draft experts. You again, Todd mcshay and, you know, Mel Kiper Junior, they all said five, they all said five would go in the first round. We didn't see, we didn't see five Hooker dropped and so did, you could say there's a, there's a sound bite right there. Hooker dropped and, and, and, you know, will Levis, Hooker dropped because Hooker Hooker dropped right into somebody's lap.

SPEAKER 2: All right. It is a kids show still. So, but, he dropped because a, you know, an AC L injury and he's again older and didn't play in like a pro style offense. You know, people looked at him as, as a tougher transition to the NFL.

SPEAKER 2: So we'll see, maybe, maybe they strike, you know, gold in Detroit, you know, Goff had a, actually a pretty good year. So it's not like he's going, battling with a AAA down and out golf based on a, a bad year. So it's, it's, listen, Joe Flacco was in the NFL last year and I know you're very familiar.

SPEAKER 1: He's, he's, he's still a lead.

SPEAKER 2: So, you know, it's, it's a different NFL. It's a, you know, the NFL, like kind of where they go and what they value, it seems to change every 3 to 5 years.

SPEAKER 1: It's unbelievable. I saw Joe Flacco playing in the Super Bowl and, and that was 10, some years ago a little kid and he, yeah, and I mean, it's, it's, it's unreal to think that, the, the, the Jets still have him as a veteran mentor last year. I mean, that's awesome.

SPEAKER 2: Well, listen, he started over Zach Wilson this Young supposed, well, I think he's terrible and I said that, listen, you know, we talk about a meant when you're wrong and right. Right. I, I said, Zach Wilson was gonna be terrible. I looked good on that one.

SPEAKER 2: I said Kyler Murray wasn't gonna be very good, so I was wrong there. Sort of, we still, it depends on the day there.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, he's, you know, I said he was gonna be bad. But he actually had, he had a, but he did have a great year that won, you know, not last year with the four. So, like, you know, I wasn't completely right. I was more right last year than two years old. So you, you don't know. But, like, you know, Kyler Murray plays bad this year.

SPEAKER 2: Arizona is gonna be in the market for a quarterback on the board next year. So that's the, that's the life of an NFL quarterback. You got, you got to get it done early and often or the team will, will move on and get, go for the, the next game.

SPEAKER 1: All right. So if you have to buy one of these quarterback, tops now, cards, who you buying?

SPEAKER 2: Oh, man, I, I got a, me and my son had this debate the other night with, with Strout. It's, it's Strout or, or, you know, Bryce Young, Anthony supposed to be Cam Newton but with a better, I do like it. I do like the measurables and Anthony Richardson do.

SPEAKER 2: And I think playing indoors in Indianapolis, I kind of, I'm gonna go because I can't make up my mind with Stroud and, and Young, I'm gonna go with, he, my, my son, Jordan said, Bryce Young is Marcus Mariota. I'm not agreeing with that, but I'm gonna go with, I like, I like Anthony Richardson.

SPEAKER 2: If he can work on some accuracy, he can get, you know what we saw Lamar Jackson, do Lamar Jackson had some accuracy issues that seem to have gotten fixed. So I'm not saying he's Lamar Jackson, but he's got some accuracy stuff that if he cleans that up, you know, he's a big dude that can run and throw.

SPEAKER 2: He, he's gonna be kind of a similar ball player. I'm not saying I'm, I'm predicting that, but if it happens, he, he's gonna be a, a good pick, for, for the Colts. And then again, you just don't know, you just don't know.

SPEAKER 2: That's why I don't tend to invest quarterbacks anymore unless it's, the last guy I bought some stuff, which isn't that long ago, it was Trevor Lawrence and then he looked terrible under Urban Meyer and I was really scared. Well, that was, that was Urban Meyer. Yeah. And then we saw what, what, he did, you know, with, with a new coach.

SPEAKER 1: And, and for those of you who don't know, my son is a diehard Jags fan.

SPEAKER 1: So we've been riding the Trevor roller coaster for a couple of years now. So, Trevor Trevor is the real deal. Just, you know, he needed a real NFL coach.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. I think he's legit. So I have some of his stuff, but I generally quarterbacks make me nervous. Right. And Zach Wilson that I pulled was automatically priced and out to take him please. You know, it's the old Rodney Dangerfield. Take my wife, please. Right. It was, take my Wilson, please. In, in my case.

SPEAKER 1: So, you know, but, I can't relate to that, so I don't know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER 1: All right. So what do you have on your, hobby calendar coming up?

SPEAKER 2: Oh, man, next week, you know, Shane must plug a, a great, I've done the interview already to, to, you know, 100% transparency but, legendary Harvey artist, right? Dick Perez, you know, as a kid who started collecting cards in 19 79 you know, he started doing Diamond Kings in 1982. And that changed, that was a game changer for the hobby at the time, right?

SPEAKER 2: Really the first real art for that, the, the hobbies had, in a while and those were cool cars. They still are cool. But were, and to think I get to talk and have that gentleman on my show. He's 82 years old. He came over from his native Puerto Rico at age six on a plane by himself. It's like I told him during the interview, you'll hear it.

SPEAKER 2: There was a, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: And there's a funny story. I'll let it stay in the show but he talked about something that happened during that flight that I, that's called the, but I'm 50 years old and I'm, I'm still a little nervous flyer. Imagine being six years old and your mom put you on a plane.

SPEAKER 2: She can't go with you yet. She eventually came over to New York and you, you go from Puerto Rico to New York City by yourself at six, you have family already in the States. They meet you in New York City and get you, you know, off the plane.

SPEAKER 2: And then something happened during the flight again, he listened to the episode and, and, you know, made, you know, from, from poverty became, you know, he wanted to be a baseball player like his idol. Roberto Clemente.

SPEAKER 2: That didn't work out all of us.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

SPEAKER 2: And, but, but still became a hobby legend with his artwork. He's the official artist for the baseball hall of Fame. He's just not the Diamond Kings guy. That's what hobbyists kind of know him at.

SPEAKER 2: But his works in, in Philadelphia Museum Of Art. It's not just, baseball. And, it was, it to think that I was gonna get to speak to that. Someone who meant so much to my early entrance into the hobby as a, as a Young man. And I, in 82 I was 10 years old and I was opening packs. So I got those Diamond Kings.

SPEAKER 2: It was sort of a, you know, surreal moment a, a little bit but, and Mark Evans, there's gonna be a, you know, I don't want to leave out Mark Evans. 2024. The biopic, the Diamond is coming out, which will be all about that story. Another hobby goes Hollywood. Yeah, it is. It is. Add that to the list.

SPEAKER 1: So I'd just like to point out and the reason I brought it up is, is 1957 had full photography for the first time in cards. And to me it was really, almost until the Diamond King set where a artistic work was made a priority again. So I just, you know, a shout out to, to what they were able to do there. And, really, you know, look, looked forward by looking backwards in some ways.

SPEAKER 2: Yeah. And again, I'm gonna tease something too. I learned something about who selected the players, the, the subjects of the Diamond King set. And it's not, it's not who you think, or, or you might think. See now, now, here, now I'm on the hot seat because if Miguel Bly doesn't play well, he's a couple of years away, so I got a couple to be all right.

SPEAKER 2: It's gonna be my fault. But I, I like this Young man. Listen, I drafted him. My Fantasy League has a minor league draft. He's at my minor league. So that's how much of it. So we'll both be sad if it doesn't pan out.

SPEAKER 1: Absolutely. Well, I was glad we were able to, talk some hobby, positivity. Some ways to work around some of the negativity and, you know, listen, we, we all love being involved in this and I think we just want to have fun with it.

SPEAKER 1: And, you know, you said the hobby is the people, well, that means that we enjoy the hobby and the people, no doubt.

SPEAKER 2: And, and most people are fine upstanding, hobbies who will help you, they will answer questions. I, I, I know both of us, check those boxes and, and it's like I did in the promo for the show. Right.

SPEAKER 2: No, no, two guys are having more fun doing this show, doing other stuff. You can tie us. You're not gonna pass us because we're having a lot of fun.

SPEAKER 2: Just ignore the white noise. Drive around the potholes. Don't let one or a handful of people, ruin your day. It is possible. You just gotta have, that willpower just to avoid, avoid that stuff.

SPEAKER 2: All right.

SPEAKER 1: Well, I think on that note, say good night John.

SPEAKER 2: Good night John.