Ep.280 w/ Marc Mader "Rise of Ticket collecting"

SPEAKER 1: What is up everyone? Welcome to Episode 280 Sports Car Nation. Got a great guest today who has an amazing collection of tickets. Something I've started to dabble in that's getting a little trickier because I think a lot more people are getting into ticket collecting and grading and, and all sorts of that. And more attention is being paid to it, but he's got an incredible collection, Mr Mark Mader.

SPEAKER 1: He's going to share some of that collection and just, you know, talk about it. So if you want to see the actual items, you have to check out the YouTube video a couple of weeks after the audio, but we're gonna learn some of the ins and outs.

SPEAKER 1: He's even gonna give you some tips if you want to get into the space of what to, to look for, how to save a few bucks, what to avoid, and that sort of thing and he knows his stuff when it comes to tickets and, I don't want to give it away, but he's gonna share some impressive pieces from his collection during the conversation. So, enough, teasing. Let's take a real quick break and then we'll be talking with Mr Mark Mater.

SPEAKER 2: Hobby News Daily. Is your home page of the Hobby providing original writing, exclusive gem, rate data. A daily morning minute podcast and some of the best content creators in the Hobby. Remember? Hobby News, daily.com and at Hobby News Daily on social happy collecting.

SPEAKER 1: Real excited to talk to my next guest on the sports card shop guest line. He's one of the, in, in my opinion, one of the pre eminent ticket collectors in the world I'll say and got quite a collection. I wanna talk a lot about you know, collecting tickets. The do s the don't he's gonna show up some of his favorite items as well. But welcome Mark Mader.

SPEAKER 3: Thanks John, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER 1: So, you know, first time on the show, I, I appreciate you. You coming on kind of the, the always start off, sort of question, right? Kind of how you got your start into collecting whatever, whether it was cards to, to where you are now. Like, how did it all begin for you?

SPEAKER 3: It began, I think a little different than most in this, in the, in this space. It was with autographs. I, I valued autographs a lot.

SPEAKER 3: Then in the card market back in the eighties, I'm talking before grading was even around and then, when it was still really the wild West.

SPEAKER 3: And then I think in 2020 or 2021 I started seeing this increase in the car market as far as you. So how the, how it peaked and people were just spending godly amount of money on, on cards which I thought were way overvalued.

SPEAKER 3: And I turned the tickets in 2020 2021 and I saw the value there, I saw the scarcity in tickets rather than the false scarcity in some of these modern cards that they have and create. And that's the direction I went with my collection.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, and I, I kind of grew, you know, I did a show on tickets. I have a few. Not nothing along the lines of, of the collection you have. But I've started to dabble in it when you think about a ticket. This is how I see it, right. Cards are sort of intrinsically collected, even, even, even the vintage one.

SPEAKER 1: And, and, and, and that, well, when you think about ticket, even when I was a kid, you know, it's just a, a vessel to get into the event, whether it be a concert a game, you, you put it in your pocket, it gets crumpled up after the game, you throw it out, you get home, you might throw it out when you, when you empty your pockets and there's only so many printed, right?

SPEAKER 1: There's only enough printed for the, you know, the capacity of, of the event. And you know, I would say a good percentage of those were not safe. And so I think when, you know, you mentioned it just now Mark when you think about scarcity, I think tickets are just inherently are harder to find, especially the the further back you go. And even nowadays with the current event, like they don't even issue hard tickets anymore.

SPEAKER 1: It's all on your phone in a barcode. Now you, you can go to the box office if it's a, a significant game or debut or something happens during the game, no hitter and request a hard copy ticket. But generally you don't get one anymore, like, like you used to kind of your thoughts. Do you agree with that or you want that?

SPEAKER 3: That's correct. So let's go back to the early days. Back then card collecting was huge in the, in the vintage market.

SPEAKER 3: They, everybody collected cards.

SPEAKER 3: And tickets again weren't a collectible at the time. But if you think about like the people like to back then more so than other tickets hop opening day and World Series tickets were real collectible. And to be honest with you back in the early for in the forties and fifties and sixties.

SPEAKER 3: So you would see more of those and when I say four of those like the Jackie Robinson debut, which I have right here. This Jackie Robinson debut was an opening day ticket. So, and it was highly anticipated by both the African American community and the and the integration of baseball.

SPEAKER 3: So it was, it was highly touted as a game. So a lot of people went to that game and there was more tickets saved and when I say saved, there was about, there's 11 of them graded by PS A. So that just shows you that's a high population for me in the ticket market.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I'm, I'm very jealous. Of that ticket would, would someday, would love to own. I don't, I don't foresee it. But, and, and, and here's the other thing too, Mark, you know, back then we didn't have the supplies and protection that we have. So even people who went to that game, you know, it was probably stuffed in their pocket, maybe crumpled up, folded in half.

SPEAKER 1: And so when you get into the grading aspect to find one in, in, in better condition, let's say, than, than probably most. I mean, obviously that factors into, what something's gonna gonna go for. So. Well, like you said opening day World Series are, are maybe more kept or more collectible. The still the, the, you know, then you got the condition aspect, of it.

SPEAKER 1: You know, people walking around with like a binder or a top loader to, to put it in once they, they got it and it was kind of, you know, in the pocket and, and, you know, some of them probably made it through. Ok. But a lot of times, they didn't and I'm sure.

SPEAKER 3: Of, of the 11. Yeah. Even of the 11. I'm sorry, I interrupted you, of the 11 that are graded, there were some scrapbook issue, you know, some scrapbook, paper loss because they were a lot of people put them in scrapbooks instead of, you know, protecting them. And like I said, back then, encapsulation was not an even a, an invention back then.

SPEAKER 1: So, and people did that with, with cards, they, they glued them into the album. So that's not exclusive, the tickets, that was how you showed off stuff you pulled out of, you know, there was no don no uploader pages or, or, or pages to slide into where they can be non glued in. That was how you pictures, even family photos were, were glued into albums at that time.

SPEAKER 1: So that's, that's very prevalent and common and obviously does a factor in, in what condition these may be in and, and when you think 11, you know, 11 copies known to exist, that's just an extremely low a number and, but we were talking off the air before we, we started recording and you also not to stay your thunder but you're gonna show it, you have the Clemente debut day ticket and you, you inform me that there's actually less of those than the Jackie, which kind of surprises me and I'll let you kind of elaborate on that.

SPEAKER 3: Sure. So the clement they gave you was ok. Again, I I'll mention that it was not on an opening day. It was a, it was a double header, I think. Let's see, April 17th. So it was two days after opening day on that season when he came through and it was on the day.

SPEAKER 3: It was a doubleheader. He played both games. He got his first hit in that game as well in his, in his first debut in his debut game. So the Clemente debut ticket, which is right here is a pop one, there is no other one that known to exist and for a player like Clemente, that's big.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's crazy. So right there, you just said, I mean, I, I don't think I misheard you. That's the only one that's, that's known to exist. That's correct. That's, that is, that's something else. I mean, no other way to say it. I'm almost lost for a way to describe it. Can you talk, I don't, not so much the value, I mean, that's your business, but can you talk about the acquisition of that? How did you manage to, to get it?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. So this was an auction.

SPEAKER 3: You know, people put certain values on tickets, and cards that, you know, cards are a little bit more.

SPEAKER 3: I think people look at comps on cards and that's how they value their cards when they, before they, put a, a, an auction selling bid or a bid in on an auction tickets. To me. When I saw this one, it was at an auction. I knew it was the only one that ever existed.

SPEAKER 3: And it was Clemente. So the reason I went after that one hard was here's a pop one of one. And you'll see as we go on in this, in this podcast that my collection, it consists of more pop population one tickets and cards than anything else.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's that's amazing stuff and, and I mean, do you, when you do you ever like sell, you know, like people do with cards, Mark, you know. Oh I wanna get this, I'm gonna move this cause I'd rather have that. Do you do you do that or what?

SPEAKER 1: Once you own something, it's kind of like it's, it's in, you know, my collection and I'm just gonna add to that collection. How do you, you know what's the sort of the, the, the modus operandi there if you will? Sure.

SPEAKER 3: So I don't know, I don't, I do have some things on ebay that I sell.

SPEAKER 3: They're usually cards or double doubles that I have in tickets those are the only ones I sell, I don't sell to move something to buy another, another item. But I do sell if I acquire a better copy of an existing ticket that I already have or a better copy of an existing card that I already have. So I'll sell for that reason.

SPEAKER 3: Other or I sold a Derek Jeter in March of 21. A Derek Jeter Sp foil, rookie card. PS A 10, I sold that in 2021 and the, the, it was astronomical offer, I mean, it came, went through PWCC. It was $690,000 at the time. Is when what the offer came in and took it right away.

SPEAKER 1: And then, and then put it on to the ticket side.

SPEAKER 3: I'm assuming that that is correct. Yeah, I'm almost some of these tickets and I just, I'll just give you an example of the Jackie Robinson ticket, the Jackie Robinson ticket virtually free for what I did to get that ticket and things I gave up that I was in a couple of PS A 10 Jordan 86 Clear Jordans that real, you know, back in 2015 and 14.

SPEAKER 3: That, real, real good that I sold in 21. I was able to just cover the cost of that Jackie Robins and still on the, you know, and be even on both, you know, I didn't lose any money on either.

SPEAKER 1: One do you? Ii, I think I know the answer to this question but know less than, I mean, you enjoy the ticket collecting aspect more than, than the cards. Do you want? I know you have cards. Do you sometimes do you want to phase out cards or do you kinda wanna kind of do both?

SPEAKER 3: And oh, I absolutely want to do both. So the reason for that and I'll tell you John is, is what I do is I couple a ticket most of the time I'll try to take a subject like say Mickey Mantle and I'll take his debut ticket, which I have right here.

SPEAKER 3: So this is his debut and I love this debut just to explain the debut for a second. Then I'll go back to what we're talking about is it's gate number six section seven. So he went into the league with number six when he went back down to the minors, came back up, the six was not available. They gave him seven. So I looked for different reference points to the player sometimes when I'm buying tickets just as something fun to do.

SPEAKER 3: And so that the.

SPEAKER 1: Connection you connect the dots in a way.

SPEAKER 3: Oh yeah, you gotta connect the dots and then I have his his rookie card here or is considered, you know, his rookie card. And then I also not.

SPEAKER 1: A rookie, but it's, it's, it's the most iconic card. And the most iconic card.

SPEAKER 3: And I think most people know the story behind that, you know, the 52 tops. Yeah. So which makes it a rare, a rare card. And then I also have a which I didn't bring out, but I have a type one photo of him Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio together on his debut game. Right before the game, they took a picture of all three of them together and signed by Mickey Mantle.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, we've seen the type one photo market e explode very similar to the ticket market in the last, the last few years, the few years.

SPEAKER 1: With, with the, with the tickets, I mean, you got right there, you just show three or four amazing pieces. Obviously you have more than that as well. I mean, is there anything that you, that you haven't checked off your, your, your, your want list that's be become difficult, you know, in that way? Maybe he, if someone's listening, maybe it, it, it, it becomes fruitful at some point or, or not necessarily.

SPEAKER 3: Sure. No, I absolutely. So I grew up with Griffin, you know, I graduated high school in 88. I Griffy, you know, was debuted in 89.

SPEAKER 3: So I was a big Griffin fan all through, you know, my in the nineties and, and so I was debut ticket on, of course, those are rare to find, by the way, I don't know why Griffey's debuts were so rare to find, but this one signed by Griffey and then what I did with Griffey's, is I got a lot of, one of one Griffeys cards to couple with his debut, but I've had these cards longer than I've had the debut.

SPEAKER 3: So, this is a clear glossy, just a, one of 1 1010. I also have the Bowman Tiffany 1010, which is a more desired card than even his upper deck card. And then the do you know anything about the Desert Shield collection? The damn Shield set? Yeah. So in 1991 I was actually in the Gulf War.

SPEAKER 3: I brought a lot of these cards home with me because that's where they went, they were issued to all the troops in Desert Shield.

SPEAKER 3: And anyway, this is a 910. This is the highest graded.

SPEAKER 3: And it's a one on one as well signed by Griffey and then the iconic 93 Refractor finest. Yeah, that's awesome. And that's a 910 as well.

SPEAKER 1: That's that's incredible. Is there, is there something though that that you're missing? Is there one that's become sort of elusive to you or not? Not?

SPEAKER 3: No, no, that's what I was getting to with the Griffeys. Was that like? No? So, but when the Tiffany, the Bowman Tiffany came up for sale just recently.

SPEAKER 3: It was a one of one. It's a, one of one and II, I wanted that car. Yeah, that's, again, they're rare. They're hard to find, they're in the Tiffany. It's even hard to get him to get a 10 signature, let alone a 10 grade on the, on the Tiffany.

SPEAKER 3: So I knew that was gonna be, never surface again if I didn't go after it.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's an incredible piece. And like you said, it's hard enough to find an unsigned one in, in, in a 10 form alone. A sign one when you think about it, you know, sign ones obviously being hand even a little bit more so more, more opportunity for something potentially.

SPEAKER 3: I can even, I can give you another example of that too.

SPEAKER 3: So I'm Big Montana. I'm a Northern California born and raised Northern California guy.

SPEAKER 3: I Joe Montana, Steve Young Jerry Rice collector and I was collecting Joe Montana cards. You know, his rookie cards is 81 tops card and I had a few tens of his and this one came up, this is a Joe Montana. The only one that exists. It's a 1010 0 10 with a, in my opinion, there will never be another one of these. They're not ripping any more wax of the 81 tops anyway.

SPEAKER 3: And I don't think anybody would crack a 10 and if they did it would have to regrade as a 10 as well after he signed. So there's a lot of risk involved and I couple that with his debut ticket as well, which I just got signed by Montana Jeff Jeffrey Rosenberg helped me with that one at Tristar. He got it signed for me.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's incredible. I love how you kind of pair them up as well and they you know, kind of put the whole story together. Like you said, the 81 tops is famous for condition issues. You, you, even if you're, you, you can find an unopened box and you all use open pack, they're gonna come out off centered print marks.

SPEAKER 1: I mean it's s Yeah, yeah. So the fact that you have a Yeah, a 10, like you said, they're just, they're just not that readily available. If at all, then you add in the signature and you, you enhance an incredible item gets even more incredible and, and then the match it with the ticket, that's, that's just really cool.

SPEAKER 1: Is, is, you know, the, how do you like, I, I know you not, you said nothing really elusive. Do you, does something like come up on your radar and you say man, I gotta do that or, or is it now more with maybe some of the newer players that are, are in the, in the midst of their careers?

SPEAKER 3: So being in Baton Rouge, I'm a big Joe Burrow fan collect for fun, you know, that's not an investment. Those are, if they, if it ever was, it's a long term investment at the, at best.

SPEAKER 3: So, no, I, but I do collect Joe Burrow and, but as far as modern and Ultramodern cards, I don't flip, I don't buy those. I'm too risk averse for all that. And, the money that those cards are bringing in it, it's, it's scary.

SPEAKER 3: I feel like Joe Montana 1010 is worth 10 times the amount a, Josh Allen, you know, PS A 10 in his rookie card cause there's so many of his rookie cards and people are paying millions of dollars for them.

SPEAKER 1: So, so I know like you, you mentioned some auction. Will you go to shows and try to see what others have available maybe or, or not? Not necessarily.

SPEAKER 3: I do, I'm going to, I'll be in the Dallas Show this year, this in May and then, I do go to shows but you don't see a lot of ticket collections unless you go to the National and you're starting to see it like last year in Chicago.

SPEAKER 3: My sons and I went to that to the National and we saw a ton of tickets and other collectibles other than just cards. So, yeah, I do go to shows. I like shows. I like to the camaraderie between collectors. I get to meet up with some guys that I talk to all the time online.

SPEAKER 1: I think what you can, you can tell me where I'm wrong or right, or whether you agree. I think we're seeing the ticket market.

SPEAKER 1: I think it's growing, I think more people are getting, into it.

SPEAKER 1: Just like cards, unfortunately. Right.

SPEAKER 1: Anyone that can make a buck, the wrong way, will attempt to. And so like on the card side we've seen some counterfeits or replicas.

SPEAKER 1: You know how, if someone, you know, obviously you're a veteran o of it now, but for someone who was like thinking about getting into it, maybe some tips or, or advice to someone new, getting into ticket collecting on how, so they don't have a bad experience and then exit just as, just as fast as they, they started.

SPEAKER 3: Oh, sure. So I think a common mistake and a big one, especially on ebay is there's proof tickets. So proof tickets will come across with no seat number, no section number, no row number. It's a ticket that they printed.

SPEAKER 3: Either to s to check the printing press or in case they needed to, needed the extra ticket, they can, you know, put a seat section in row on there and to reprint a ticket for somebody, but they were never used for the game. And on ebay, it's the ticket market I think is still in the wild West phase if you ask me because there's no authentication process.

SPEAKER 3: Like they do with cards or jewelry or anything else on ebay. So, I think there needs to be something like that and I think that's being explored through Darren Ravel's new, adventure with his, Hobby, news station or TV station that he started just recently.

SPEAKER 3: So I think he's gonna hold ebay accountable to some of those items as well. But that's the first thing I would look for is if it doesn't label it a proof and you don't see a seat number, section number or row number, that's a proof ticket that never entered the game. And that's the value of it is, is miniscule compared to a real ticket of the same game.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Good advice there are, you know, I've even, even in my own searches on, on ebay per se, you know, you see, what's a replica ticket in the seller kind of this? And generally doesn't really, I it's not prevalently found, you gotta read like the description and a lot of people, I think we both can agree.

SPEAKER 1: A lot of people are looking at the title only and, you know, maybe someone's buying it for someone else as a gift and they're not as well versed as maybe me or you are with stuff like that.

SPEAKER 1: You can, you know, you can find out after the fact like this isn't what I thought it was when when I purchased it. And, and some of that, like you said, I think what, you know, ebay has got to be a little more, you know, on top of that and, and, and, you know, watching out for some of that stuff.

SPEAKER 3: You know, you definitely cannot be lazy when, when buying, especially if you're gonna buy a raw ticket, definitely do your research on the ticket itself no matter what it says in the title or in the description, if you're buying a rod ticket, it's not on a flip with PS A or, or even if it is on the flip, do your, do your research cause I, I'll give you another example of a ticket that was graded, not mislabeled but not detail labeled on RE A and it was Jackie Robinson's first hit and which is in, in and of itself is a great ticket to have, especially for first hit collectors for Hall Of Famers, but it was also Duke Snyder's debut game and they didn't put that on there, which unfortunately for the consigned would have brought three or four times more money for that ticket and it did not because they didn't have a full description of the ticket on there.

SPEAKER 3: Me and one other guy that I asked if he was going after that ticket and I backed off of it. Are the only ones I think knew that that was Duke Snyder's debut and he, he ended up getting a ticket.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. And, and like you said, it's some, there's one that flew under the radar. Right. You knew it's, but maybe a lot of other people didn't, even though the seller. Right, he could have probably had a better sale. Maybe if he had, made sure that that was, designated.

SPEAKER 3: And I think I hold, you know, these auction houses responsible for some of that. I think they ought to not just take the word of the consigned, but they ought to do their own research for that.

SPEAKER 4: Time for a quick break. But we'll be right back.

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SPEAKER 3: We, batch, I don't know if you know Chris burgundy or the burgundy at all.

SPEAKER 1: A little, I know of them. Yeah, I don't know him on like a personal, personal level.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I even, they have, you know, Chris is, does, has his own little venture of selling collectibles and, he has a few things in mind and a game, I think a Jeter game used Jeter Jersey to sell for me and he actually found out, you know, the Jeter hit three doubles and two triples that game.

SPEAKER 3: You know, it was one of the best hitting games he ever had and so he was able to, you know, add more value to the games jersey aspect of it.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's a great point too. Mark, I think it, the auction houses or the selling consignment services. I think they need to do, you know, they probably could do a better job with the provenance or what happened, during this game and kind of the, to promote, right? And highlight, the sale, right?

SPEAKER 1: I think that it almost should be second nature and yet I think a lot of them do a good job. I don't wanna kind of paint with that broad brush, but like you said, in some cases that they, maybe they, they, you know, they miss a Curveball there and, you know, they do, I'll tell.

SPEAKER 3: You one of the, some of the best auction experiences I've had probably are, Leland's, I had a real good auction experience with Leland's. I, I can put a ceiling bid, outrageous selling bid. No one is not ever gonna hit that just because I want an item there. And no, I don't know if they can see the ceiling bid or not, I assume they can. I, I don't know if they can or not.

SPEAKER 3: But I, I don't ever see any funny stuff happening with them. I've been, I'm not gonna mention these auction houses, but I've been to other auction houses, where I've been on things, ceiling bid and it just happens to end up on the ceiling bid. You know, at the.

SPEAKER 1: End of the makes you, makes you scratch your head and wonder as would be natural for anyone to think, right?

SPEAKER 3: It makes I Yeah, when I give you an example of how you can kind of catch that is say there's 25 bids on the item and then the silly bid hits at the 26th bid, you know.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. So it's, it's you, that's right at the end of the year.

SPEAKER 3: So yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Fun, funny, funny math comes out.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, it's kinda get, it's, it's su suspicious at best. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. No doubt. I get it. So when you find, like you said, when you find someone that you, you really feel like has integrity, you can trust it. It makes, it makes a difference. And when it comes to raw and graded and you buying tickets, do you obviously, I think you'd rather have it graded. Do you tend to buy more raw and then grade yourself or do you tend to acquire more that's already encapsulated?

SPEAKER 3: No. So I always, I tend to buy more encapsulated graded items. Just I trust the process there. You know, there are some mistakes but not very many on the raw items. I will, I will do it but I, I priced differently so I will not, spend the, you know, what high value or, you know what the market is bringing for that ticket right then for a raw ticket of the same ver, raw version of the same ticket.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Yeah. And that makes that obviously makes sense. Has, has the market gotten more competitive as, as more people get into the, the ticking collected niche or can you see, is it like, can you feasibly tell like there's more people starting to do it now.

SPEAKER 3: There are more people ticket collectors are different though. So there's some crossover with cards with card collectors. I think some card collectors are going to tickets but ticket collectors, I wanna, I don't wanna say car collectors aren't gentlemen, but are more like with the Jackie Robinson first hit.

SPEAKER 3: We were a smaller community so we kind of know each other. We know what each other look for. I knew this guy was a Jackie Robinson. First of all, he has a Jackie Robinson debut. He's a first hit collector. So that was one that's why I had reached out to him on that ticket.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, so I see a lot of crossover grading was never big on tickets as far as until that crossover happened and tickets got real popular. Now, grading is looked at a little bit more than, than it used to be. So, but just like I'll give you an example if you can get a, a three both. Look at Jackie Robinson.

SPEAKER 3: I mean, not Jackie Robinson. Mickey Mantle debut. Hey Karen debut and the Joe Montana debut, even the Jackie Robinson is a 1.5. These were all three respectively. And that's considered a high grade for a ticket. Like you said, a vintage ticket usually shoved in someone's back pocket.

SPEAKER 3: Would be, you know, they wouldn't turn out that great. So, you know, three or four is considered a high grade for a ticket.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, no doubt. You know, like wi with cards, they not, well, people did put them in their pocket but, you know, most people knew like, hey, I'll try to keep this as straight as possible other than putting it in your, your bikes, bos like my dad did as a kid.

SPEAKER 1: But, but you know, tickets were like I said earlier, I and, and I take it great. Tickets were just viewed at e especially in, in the vintage era.

SPEAKER 1: It's just a vessel to just a means to get through the doors to see the event. And then once you were in like you, like you said, it crumpled in the back pocket, front park, it thrown out probably it through a trash as they exited the arena or stadium or, or event or got home and, you know, you take your pants off at the end of the day, clean out your, you know, turn your pocket, see what's in your pocket.

SPEAKER 1: Oh, I went to this game, throw the ticket a away.

SPEAKER 1: And so, like you said, number one, there's just not as many of these things when you compare it to cards and then the, the condition of them is not gonna be comparable to, to the cards, which is exactly what you're saying with a three and a four is, is you know, in a card grade, it's, you, you, you're not getting super excited but in the ticket side of things, it's a whole different aspect.

SPEAKER 1: And just because of the way they were handled.

SPEAKER 3: You know, back to what, you know, you were saying as far as when I, well, when I was getting into the ticket work, what I thought in my mind, it's about as close to the players you can get with a ticket then other than a used game, used uniform or bat of the player of that day.

SPEAKER 3: So this, this ticket to Jackie Robinson or to Clemente's debut games, that's as close to that players as you're gonna get without some game use from that game or without being there yourself. And a lot of us aren't of that age. So you're never gonna be there.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. You know, I mentioned the counterfeiting aspect. How, how prevalent do you, someone who's really involved in, in the tickets collecting in the market? How prevalent is that? Is, am I making too much of it or, or is it an issue?

SPEAKER 3: It's not an issue if it's PS A graded? Because, and I'm gonna tell you what, before I started investing heavily in the tickets, I went to PS A had a tour sat down with, with the guys at PS A in the ticket grading. Even Nat Turner, I sat down with him. They have a, they can test paper, they can age pay, they can test the age of paper, the ink, the print on the paper.

SPEAKER 3: So I've after being shown what, how they test the paper and can ch check for counterfeiting.

SPEAKER 3: I was more comfortable with their grading process and authentication process.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. But on the raw side, I mean, do you think there are people out there trying to pull fast ones over, over the ticket collected public and, and you know, how easy, how easy is it to tell on a raw card? Obviously, PS A has got all those tools in house and, and experts in the house.

SPEAKER 1: But for someone who's at a show or online even, it doesn't have to be just a show show online and looking to buy a raw ticket maybe to eventually, you know, get it encapsulated. But they're trying to buy it raw first. You know, how much is, is counterfeit, you know, for ge tickets? How, how big of an issue is it for someone in, in that market?

SPEAKER 3: We, I've never ran into it or heard of a story about it, but I'm sure where there's a chance to make money. I'm sure there's fraud in any, any aspect of any collecting. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: N no doubt. How do you view, you know, II I mentioned earlier, Mark I like in today's sporting events, you, everything's barcode on your phone or print out the barcodes on your home printer and you just show those to the, the, the ushers coming through or the ticket takers, they, they scan it with their little handheld units. So the really the tickets almost don't exist today.

SPEAKER 1: So you're at a game, you know, and it's a no hitter. I mean, what I said is that what you would do? Like in that case is to get a hard copy ticket is go to the box office and, and get one and you know, like you said, you want to get the ticket which has where you were sitting, right, your row, your section, your seat number, not just one that says, you know, April 26th Orioles versus Rangers.

SPEAKER 1: You know, mi one type of thing.

SPEAKER 3: You don't want a commemorative ticket because those are valued as high. But the trade, let me give you the, little cheat code to that. So if you do get a barcode, but you want a ticket to the game regardless of what happened in the game.

SPEAKER 3: If you want, what I make it a practice of doing is going to the box office and saying my phone battery is dead and they'll issue a ticket to get into the game, at the, you know, at the box office too. So you, you know, short of doing that.

SPEAKER 3: You, you're gonna get a commemorative ticket.

SPEAKER 3: I will tell you this Buster a friend of mine. He went to the, the Warriors Knicks game and saw Curry hit the, you know, the record breaking three pointer, you know, for this year. So he got that ticket and he had Curry sign it and he sent it to me. I bought that was one ticket I did by ra I knew it was Busters. I knew, I know but he got into the game with it.

SPEAKER 3: It was on my birthday, December 14th.

SPEAKER 3: I bought it from him. I sent it to PS A and got it graded integrated out in great condition. But you typically that on that game, there's a lot of commemorative tickets. So if you're not just give you an example, if it doesn't say issue date, December 14th, I think it was 2022 or something like that. It doesn't say that don't buy it, because then it's a commemorative ticket.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. And, and, and, you know, it can be confusing to someone that doesn't know, what they're looking for. And I've seen, I've seen those commemorative tickets, you know, for sale online where I, I'll even stick up for the seller Mark. I don't think they even realize that it's a commemorative ticket.

SPEAKER 1: I think they think themselves, it's the actual, you know, hard copy ticket when it's, when it's not. So I'll stick up for them. I don't even think they realize, I think they think they have something that's not what they actually have. And then in turn, someone else might get fooled into buying it.

SPEAKER 1: And so, all these tips easy.

SPEAKER 3: It's easy to tell, but between those sellers on ebay because typically those sellers don't sell too many tickets. They don't have too many in their inventory or on their, on their ebay account. So, yeah, you're probably right. They're naive to the fact they probably bought it in the show was told one thing and it's another.

SPEAKER 3: But if you go on to a site or an ebay account and they're selling a ton of tickets, they know what they're talking about and if they don't disclose that it's a commemorative ticket, then it's a shame on them. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: You know, when more people getting involved, obviously, you know, today's events are a little bit different like we just discussed. Do you think the, the modern ticket market, if you will, if there is such a thing, I don't know if I just coined in it.

SPEAKER 1: Do you think that will be strong as well, or you think it'll always be really, those, those, you know, post war kind of the forties, fifties and, and those kind of tickets that, in other words, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER 3: Well, I think pre war, post war, vintage tickets are always gonna be more desirable as you get more into the digital age.

SPEAKER 3: I, you're not gonna see as much collecting on, on those games just because you, you know, you can't, unless everybody lines up at the box office with a dead phone battery, you know, you're just not gonna see that and then sometimes there are events use that, say if you, if you do not come with your phone, you better print it out at home in case your battery dead is dead and print it out on your printer.

SPEAKER 3: So then you won't get into the game. So sometimes it won't work, you know, just claiming your phone battery is dead.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I usually get in with, with the barcode on my phone. You know, you're in line to get in, you see other people with just their, their printer paper with literally just a barcode on it. That's, that's really it. And so they scan it and they, they get, they get in, you know, when more people getting in though, do you think, you know, they're not making more of those pre and post war tickets?

SPEAKER 1: Do you think it's, I, I know you said the communities kind of works with each other, like you said, you work, you know, with the, the Jackie Robinson guy, do you think that might change as stuff? Really dries up? I mean, it's already fairly dry. You think it gets more cutthroat with more people? Sort of getting into the space?

SPEAKER 3: I don't think cutthroat is a good word for it. I think it gets competitive to the sense that, you know, if somebody wants something, they'll just keep your mouth shut about it and they'll go after it.

SPEAKER 3: You know, they'll do that, but you're typically on things like the Jackie Robinson or, Mickey Mantle, they're not flip, we're not flipping tickets like they do with these Ultramodern or modern cards.

SPEAKER 3: And, just to give you an example, the Jackie Robinson that sold on Heritage a couple of years back, I think it was 400 $60,000 was the, you know, that was the owner of the Brewers that actually bought that ticket. And, that's going, that's in the collection that's never gonna leave. So that's just what you can check, I guarantee out of the 1110 of them you can check, you'll never see again.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's, that's an interesting aspect that it's more like one way where cards are constantly, I bought it, but I'm gonna sell it in three months or next year.

SPEAKER 1: And it's more move, there's more movement with cards comparatively speaking to tickets just to the fact they're just that when you look at tickets comparative to cards, like you said, Mark, they're just far less of them available. And people, people know that they do their homework.

SPEAKER 3: Even, you know, with the Mickey Mantle, the Mickey Mantle, you know, there's 20 probably 21 of them that's considered extremely high.

SPEAKER 3: But for a player like Mickey Mantle, it's, it's really not, you know, 21 of them, you know, anybody would love to have a Mickey Mantle debut, especially in good condition like a three. I think that's the highest graded. There might be one graded and a four or I think the three is the highest graded.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. You know, you mentioned you got debut tickets, you got World Series tickets first hits accomplishments during the game like like you know, a no hitter, perfect game. Do you think, you know to you, what, what, what's a sign?

SPEAKER 1: How would you rank them? In other words, is there something that in your mind like when you're looking for these, like I want this before this, how would you rate them? And according to your scale, in other words, my.

SPEAKER 3: Scale is a day is I'm a debut collect, I think debuts are moments in time, you know, like I even go, let's just go to Kobe's debut first of all.

SPEAKER 3: Again, it's the first, it's the only full debut you'll see.

SPEAKER 3: Of Kobe's that's graded by PS A. Secondly, like I'll go back to the reference points of the A player. So it's in seat eight which is his rookie number and then row two, which is Gigi's his daughter's number. So it, those are two ties to that player. And unfortunately, they had passed away already before I, I acquired that ticket.

SPEAKER 3: But I was able to reference, but that's a this is a one of one, but he did accomplish nothing in this game. I think he scored maybe, I think he, he didn't even score 10. I don't think it was 87 or eight points.

SPEAKER 3: And, but it was, but it was the beginning of a great career.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, here's the thing he could have scored, he could have played and scored zero points. Like you just said, that was where it started, right? That's, that's where he first stepped out in NBA court for real and played like the.

SPEAKER 3: Montana like the Montana. He was, he went on to do, they, they put him in and this is 1979.

SPEAKER 3: They put him in a place kicker and they were going to run a fake on the, and, and try to go for two points on a fake and they, they, they scratched the play at the last minute but he still plays kick, he still plays, held the, football. That was his debut game. That was the first time he played in an NFL game. So it was kind of lackluster. But again, it's the first time he stepped foot.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, see that doesn't, that doesn't, obviously, you know, having a big debut is, is nice, but it's still the debut. Like you can't take like that when someone asked, hey, when did that player first step on the field for the first time? That's it. There's no other answer. There's no other, there's no other answer. Thank you. The answer is not, well, he didn't do much that game. So the next game I'll count, that's the game.

SPEAKER 3: So you can't, you, you just take the whole definition of debut out of, out of the pitch. You can, there's so you can do that 100 times but, you know, even debuts of certain other things. So this is Michael Jordan's NBA debut and it's a red which is the most desirable.

SPEAKER 3: And it's 1984.

SPEAKER 3: Let's see what the date was. Oh October 26th. So on November 17th, this is the debut of the Air Jordan ones. So this is the first game he ever played with the Mi Jordin Air Jordan one. So there's only four of these in existence. Three reds and one box office or Ticketmaster. I have the, I have two of them. I have the red and a ticket master. I know Darren Ravel has one and I know another guy, has another one out of Chicago.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Now when you have a, a ticket and you're not upgrading, in other words, like you said, hey, I have a one but I got, I bought a three. Now I'll sell the one. Do you typically just keep one of each var? In other words, you, I, is there a ticket where maybe you're fond of and you're like, you know what? I have five of them. I like them all or, or is it really like, I just want one and, and the best one I can get.

SPEAKER 3: That, that's it. I just want one. I don't try to hoard hoard different tickets.

SPEAKER 3: I had the Ticketmaster and the more like I said, the more desirable on Air Jordan debut was, is the red. So I actually the Ticketmaster won again. There's only four of them in existence. Three of them are red. They're never going out of anybody's collection. And then the one Ticketmaster one is on my ebay, account for sale on ebay and.

SPEAKER 1: And Al Qaeda, we're coming down the home stretch. I'll close with this thought too and I think you'll agree with me too, Mark. You know, a lot of times we f we hear these fines, right. Someone goes in an addict, and they find, a whole bunch of pre war cards or post-war significant cards or some sealed wax from the forties or fifties or sixties.

SPEAKER 1: Right. I don't really see that. I, I don't know if you agree. I don't really see those kind of stories with tickets. Like someone finding, hey, I found a whole shoe box of tickets. I mean, I'm sure that the, it's not impossible but not in the same vein as we see on the, on the card side of the house.

SPEAKER 3: Would you, you, you're right on that. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. As a matter of fact, this Jackie Robinson was, I think someone knew they had it. They weren't a collector, there, I think they saw, read that recent sell on eight on Heritage and this one specifically was taken out of the scrapbook.

SPEAKER 3: It doesn't have any paper law. So it wasn't glued into the scrapbook. But, it was, had those four corners things that they slid it. Yeah. Yeah. So, it was one of those deals. But, yeah, they ended up getting a graded and I think that's the story behind this ticket specifically.

SPEAKER 3: You typically the people that keep their, kept their tickets and scrapbooks are, weren't collectors of any other memorabilia at that time. So you won't, usually they probably aren't on being on earth anywhere.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. And then I, to me that just adds to the mystique and, and the rarity and the scarcity, of, of ticket collecting. Ii, I did a show. I have another podcast called High Be Quick. It's, which is just me and a topic.

SPEAKER 1: It's, it's shorter and I, I tackled tickets and I gave all my reasons why I think it's, it's a market we don't talk about enough about and when we compare it to the card side, they're, they're vastly different in many, many ways.

SPEAKER 3: They're unique in their own sense.

SPEAKER 3: I love getting my ticket signed. P Rose, the only full debut ticket of P Rose and I went to lunch with him and Ferman on this, Ryan Fetterman and I have this, there's one of four stubs signed. This is a stub.

SPEAKER 3: The reason I got these sign was because Ryan called me one Sunday and asked me to come the next day to Houston. I drove over but, it's just getting them signed. You get to talk to the player. First of all, they probably never seen their debut ticket before.

SPEAKER 3: Secondly, Pete, you know, you ask him a question about that debut game. The only thing he remembered was Pete's a good guy. I like Pete.

SPEAKER 3: Was he played against Clemente and he couldn't believe, you know, his first game he's playing is a, is against Clemente.

SPEAKER 1: So, yeah, you ever have in, in a situation where you're meeting the actual player whose debut ticket you have or significant. Have you ever had a player try to acquire that from you? Like, ok, I need that in my, in my collection.

SPEAKER 3: No, but I had the guy that who's the son that owns the Yankees Steinbrenner. What's h hhh Yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

SPEAKER 3: H he reached out to h yeah, he reached out to Matt Turner for my Mickey Mantle debut and I, I, I'm not giving that up, you know, they don't come up very often so.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. No, I don't blame you. You know, I'm sure you could have got, if you live closer. I don't, you know, you're not a Yankee fan but if you live closer to the Bronx.

SPEAKER 3: You take that I'm a Yankee fan. Ok.

SPEAKER 1: You could, you could have got a lot, you could have got probably besides monetary value. You probably could have got lifetime you know, boxy tickets.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, I didn't think about it then, but immediately I said no to that. I was like, I'm not giving it up.

SPEAKER 1: No, like you said, what, what, what did you say? There's 21 of those or something like that?

SPEAKER 3: Yeah, there's 21 of them and he'll find one, I'm sure somewhere but not in good condition with the reference points that this one has.

SPEAKER 1: Now what if he asks you, hey, I don't want to acquire it but can you put it on loan for, you know, they have like a museum inside, inside Yankee Stadium. Like it'll be, it'll be under tight security behind museum acrylic glass with, with security, procedures in place. Would that be something you're open to or not? Not necessarily.

SPEAKER 3: No, definitely. You know, I was approached by, acquisition guy from, for the Hall Of Fame to, for the jacket.

SPEAKER 3: Yeah. Yes. And they wanted to display that there and, but it was too open ended and there was, the contract was too loose and they were unnegotiable on it. So I was, I ended up turning that one down the Mickey Mantle in that scenario that you just gave. I would definitely let let them display.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's cool. I mean, I think that's cool and then people, it's still yours, obviously, it's still under your ownership, but people can enjoy it and you know, it's not something you see all the time. It definitely is a, a conversation piece and sure there'll be plenty of, of rides home from a Yankee game where like, did you see that ticket? Man?

SPEAKER 3: That was crazy type of, you know, that's, it's funny because I go to a card show and I'll bring the Jackie or the, or the Clemente or even the Mickey Mantle and any of these debuts and that's people want to be taken, have pictures taken with them, you know, they want their picture taken with the, I give you, I give you credit Mark.

SPEAKER 1: I'd be too nervous. I'd be too nervous to bring it. Right. Just like I.

SPEAKER 3: Very rarely do. I, yeah, very rarely do. I do that.

SPEAKER 1: And I have all.

SPEAKER 3: Your security with me.

SPEAKER 3: Well, some of the stuff, you know, it's going back to the bank. So, yeah.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that incredible collection. I, I appreciate you coming on and sharing, some of that insight and you know, where a lot of people probably are, you know, maybe on the fence, right? I kind of want to do but I don't know.

SPEAKER 1: And it's nice like you said, the ticket collecting community sort of helps each other out, looks out for each other and that's, that's always nice to here. We, we need, we need more stuff like that rather than, than the reverse.

SPEAKER 3: So that is correct. And John, I appreciate you inviting me on the show.

SPEAKER 1: No, no. And listen, I, I love to have you back. This doesn't have to be AAA one wonder as they say. So love to have you any time to follow up.

SPEAKER 1: I always give the guests the kind of the final word, any like Social Media, what anything you wanna share where people can see your incredible collection or, or you know, not to make work for you. But maybe if they had a question for you or that sort of thing.

SPEAKER 3: So yeah, so I wanted to mention that Instagram is a good tool for me to display my collection. Everything I own more or less is on the is on my Instagram account.

SPEAKER 3: That's all I'll post on my on stories and on my timeline. So if you go to Mark underscore Ma Ma RC underscore M AD er you can go to my Instagram account and you can see the entire collection there. Just keep scrolling down. If you don't see something that we've talked about during the show, you'll, you'll eventually find it.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. And then I've looked through it.

SPEAKER 1: It's amazing stuff and, you know, I get a little jealous, I'm not gonna lie a little, probably a little drool on my shirt, especially when it comes to the Jack Jackie being a Brooklyn kid, Jackie around my dad lived at Evans Field and, and so I got all the stories from him and, and just what he meant, not even on the field, but even off the field, he became, I was just doing every book report or essay I did in school was to the point teachers are like they knew ahead of time.

SPEAKER 1: Like John, you got to pick someone else other than Jackie Robinson. You did.

SPEAKER 3: So if they wanted to get out of that subject.

SPEAKER 1: Now, you know, they were nice about it like he's a great man. But you've, you've, you've went down that alley. Too much. They pick somebody. Exactly for stuff. So well, Mar again, I appreciate it, man.

SPEAKER 1: Awesome me sharing you collect, you know, a lot of times when people have great color actions, sometimes people are reluctant to share them and, and stuff like that and, and, and you're, you're very unselfish that way and we appreciate.

SPEAKER 3: Ok. Well John again, thank you very much for having me on your show.

SPEAKER 1: Yeah. No, thank you. Take care.

SPEAKER 3: Ok, you too.

SPEAKER 1: Bye bye.

SPEAKER 1: All right. That was a fun conversation. Getting to see some of those items. You know, everyone that knows me.

SPEAKER 1: You know, the Jackie debut ticket man, that's like a would be a grail mega millions win type item for me. The problem is, you know, good luck finding them. You know, he mentioned the Clemente debut and how difficult that is and the fact that it wasn't opening day which makes it even more difficult.

SPEAKER 1: So those are the things you can learn from, from listening to the Mark when it comes to ticket ticket collecting. And I appreciate him sharing some of that insight in his collection as well and follow, you know, check him out on Instagram.

SPEAKER 1: He, he posts a lot of what he acquires or has already and just just drool worthy stuff, but a great guy and fun to follow and, glad he made some time for all of us. We're gonna take a, hear from our Hobby is the people announcer, some, closing thoughts and we'll wrap up this week's episode time for our Hobby is the people announcer of the week.

SPEAKER 6: Hello, rookie card collectors, Victor, the rookie card specialist on YouTube.

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