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Dec. 9, 2022

Ep.209 w/ Rob Valenti (Grading Landscape)

Rob Valenti of Iron Sportscards is back. Topics discussed include how he got through the pandemic as a bulk subber, how low will prices return to, the "I" word and more!


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Rob Valenti of Iron Sportscards is back. Topics discussed include how he got through the pandemic as a bulk subber, how low will prices return to, the "I" word and more!


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Transcript

<span;>8:44 PM
<span;>What is up Sports Carnation back for another week that a great guest today. Rob Valente of iron sports cards. Great great guy, New Yorker. Like myself that doesn't just automatically make you a great guy but it does help if I may be so biased to say known rob a few years. Now, and been one of the original sponsors to show, I've used them to bulk submit and he's on. We're going to talk about, you know, being a bulk submitter through the pandemic through price raises costs, increase how we survived and weathered the storm where he sees the grading industry going and you know, he's been in the hobby or a while so we're going to ask them even just generic be questions, you know, other Hobby. As well as not. Just a folks emitter he's a collector and hobbyist like we all are. And so going to pick his brain and you know what he thinks is coming down the pike and it's good to catch up with him. We haven't had in mind in a little bit and I think you'll enjoy the episode and Rob is a straight shooter much like I am. And, you know, that usually leads to Interesting conversation. So with that being said, let's get this show underway. This is sports. Cars Nation. Time for all hobby. Is the people announcer.

<span;>This is Zach burn, one of many hobbyists who returned during covid. Thanks to John for steering me in the right direction. And remember the hobby is the people. If you'd like to be the hobbyist of people announcer of the week to have wires or MP3 file, and send it to sports coordination PC at gmail.com, Iron sports cards is your number one source for all your PSA and other grading submissions, their Elite status improves, turnaround times. Heck they even provide the card Savers, their chat rooms provide updates on all your submissions. They also offer wax options and single cards to cover, all the bases. Check them out on Facebook, at iron sports cars group, or on the web at iron sports cards.com or even give them a call at 1-877-560-4440 sa Rob's. Got you covered. Returning. Now on this board card shop at Moco guess line, he was here. We last spoke with him on the show about a year and a half ago, and as we all know, a lot has changed in that year and a half. He's one of our. Oh, gee, I just told me he's one of our old G sponsors of sports car nation and I thought it was long enough since he was last on the, bring a bag. So, Rob Valente, iron sport, start, welcome back, big great, great to be back. John, thanks for having me. All right. So like I said, well, you're welcome. Thank you. Like I said, it's been a year and a half since we last did this on the air mean you know Iron sports cards. You do submissions for PSA. SGC kind of, you know what since the last time you've been on kind of what this change for you for your business and just some with the climate around grading as well. I think the I think around the last time we spoke they were Psh was just kind of like just about shutting. On, you know, some of the lower tiers and yeah, I got it, got a little crazy at that time. There was cards that people were still sending that didn't make it in. And, you know, it was just going through a lot of stuff, trying to explain to them, you know, what was going on with PSA. And, you know, if they wanted us to hold the cards till PSA was going to, you know, accept them again, but we really had no clue that it was going to take that long for them to start opening. You know, these are the lower tiers again, which they Finally did thank God. And, you know, within the last, the last couple of months, business has really been booming again with, you know, PSA cards. In the meantime though actually see was really good for us as well. There's a good alternative for you know a lot of the guys who couldn't you know sub with PSA unless it was a real high-end card which is wasn't worthy. You know, defeat but the SEC was real reasonable and you know we had a lot of cars going to HTC and we still have a lot of cars. It's going into, you know, SGC every month which which is great. Yeah they're listen, I'm not just saying this because I'm talking to you, I think you're not breaking any news to you there to two of my favorite great company. So that's most of my inventory that it's graded is either PSA and SGC. I do have some back yet but their death, their third, in terms of quantity, it's been a few years quite frankly. Since I sub with them that we, you know, we could have the whole show in itself. So you know, let's go back there a little bit. You know, when PSA did, you know, shut down especially like you said, we're tears. Where the only thing you were going to get graded was going to cost you to 300 bucks. Yeah, but obviously that changes equation, right? If you're really, if you're spending $200, it's the cards got to be significant. No one's sending in a hundred dollar card. You know, so it eliminated that's obviously they did that for a reason so they can stop the, you know, and catch up on their backlog to you like how, you know, being that sort of your main, you know, at the time I don't remember doing SGC yet. I mean, how scary of that as an entrepreneur. Like, you know, what was going through your mind at the time? Yeah, it was, it was crazy. I just I just opened up like a little. Office area outside, you know, for myself because it was just getting too much. It was taking up too much room with boxes and storage in this that I just like, literally a month before I got a, you know, like a small office but I had everything there and then like the next month, PSA, you know, shut down. Well, I said I still use, you know, the space to, you know, get you know, by cards and you know, sell cards through there like on eBay and all the venues and stuff. But definitely You know, put a damper on things with PSA shutting down. Let me they will big big both of my business at the time I did feel get you know something from a lot of people for some high-end but it just wasn't the same amount as I was here. You know that the post office was in full every day when I went there, like it was when we were sending involved and stuff like that. But the excuse the SGC helped out, you know, with having like a better, you know, price point at that point. Ain't that we will have Emil people sending. And like I said, we were just trying all the things to, you know, just keep everything flowing with. Yeah, we hooked up with a couple of other friends who did breaks, and we would get some products for them and help them out and, you know, work that way and then when they hit a nice card in there, breaks, we would do the subbing for them. So, you know, we kind of just read into that. We have never ever little network of a lot of local Breakers in New York and Staten Island and stuff. Like that that when they get, You know, cards in their breaks, they recommend us and, you know, we would do it all their high-end hits at the time. Now, we're doing, basically, you know, everything that anybody wants to send in with these guys. So it's coming back. It's coming back full circle, you know, we're getting real busy again and yeah I'm just looking forward to the you know next year just everything is going to keep moving. Yeah. And you know that's good it's good. Everything's can't we're going to talk a little bit but more about Well, before we do, you know, you went, you know, You took that as she see, they raised their prices a little bit, not on the same par. What GSA did talk about, how easy or not easy, maybe that transition was to get up and running with them and now you you obviously are do both, which is awesome. Yeah, I got both of those basic wouldn't talk about when PSA sort of shut down. There are two lower tiers. How much of it was a scramble, wasn't an easy transition fact that it talked about you, No, the the switch over to the SGC. So I used to do as before likes kids, they shut down. I was doing a little bit of HTC, but then like penis taste price point was so cheap. At one point that people would just send in tons to PSA and actually see kind of went on the back burner. When PSA shut down, one of the Reps from suc actually reached out to me and it couldn't have come at a better time. And, you know, he gave me a good, you know, a good deal. Deal to come you know, to come back and push as she seemed or which you know we had no problem doing and that's how kind of we started getting back into SGC. What happens, you know, that the gentleman there reach out to us and you know mention how you know, their timelines was we're going pretty good and it was another option if we wanted to come back, you know, and and go stronger with SGC and you know, we were all for it but he said PSA was shut down. I wasn't crazy about Beckett. And I'm really not crazy about, you know, a lot of the other ones that are out that I don't have to mention the names, everybody knows who they are. But I mean, these are ones that I felt most comfortable with that, people know, and have a great reputation, so we just, you know, kept everything going, you know what that she see and just continued, you know, from there. So it all it all kind of worked out in a way even with its even with PSA shut down. And you know, holds them a good bit of the business. We were able. Able to, you know, find ways, like I said, with the breaking and then with these gentlemen, from the SEC reaching out to us and starting that, you know, relationship up again. Yeah. So pretty smooth, and obviously work for you with one company in a sense, closing this door. Yeah. And another one saying, hey, we're still here. We're still open and let that let's work together, which is awesome. I I'm, you know, I like both companies full disclosure and Out for a quick break, but we'll be right back with more with Rob Valenti. Introducing the only Auction House dedicated exclusively to the cards of the 1990s, Josh Adams, and John Linden of created, an auction company solely for the rare scarce and hard to find in certain parallels of the 1990s. Weatherby basketball, baseball, football, or hockey, like these options will have the drops and will consist of smaller Lots between 100 and 120. Lat.

<span;>8:56 PM
<span;>Awesome Shuffle. Founded on the principles of fairness, honesty, and integrity 90s option was created by collectors for selection register of consigned. Today at 90s auctions.com, that's 90 little s of change.com. Let's return with more would probability of iron sports cards as you see, right now, I mean, you can you can tell me, I just said it. In order to direct to today or sponsor of the show like, you are Robin. I got my, I got the cards back and literally eight days. I mean that's a, that's insane when you did basically what I think. Yeah, I think I sent it down a Monday, and I had it the following Wednesday back. I sit have keep in mind, I sent it that Monday and that means they didn't get that. So, like, Wednesday and I had it back the following Wednesday here. So that's that's insane. When you think Yeah, but I don't, I don't care, I even even the cheapy grading companies can't do that kind of known around it, you know. So so that's a feather in their cap Esa, has also escaped their backlog and gotta load up and obviously the lowered their prices. I mean, obviously as an intake or as a bulk Sauber is not you, it's nothing you can control but is that always a fear that maybe that bad blog occurs again with the prices? I mean down. Once again, yeah, it definitely definitely, you know, something in the back of your mind thinking, you know, I hope it doesn't keep, you know, stretching out with, you know, with the dates, you know. If it's supposed to be back in a month or two, you know, now, three months goes by and you have people. Questioning, hey, where are my cards? But I know, you know this, they did a lot of hiring over at PSA, you know. A lot of new hires a lot of training and so far, so good. It looks like they definitely have enough staff now too. You know, work through all the influx of cards, they're getting in, we'll get, it looks like everything's going smooth. So far, so good. I mean, I'm having a lot of Hoarders come back a lot sooner than, you know, the posted lead times which is great. You know, I may have one of the orders here that sometimes for whatever issue another, they'll still be a little longer than normal, but nothing nothing crazy. But yeah, definitely, definitely night and day from one before. Or they cut down. All right. Listen, I you know, I've swept through you, it's not your fault. I know one of my orders through use, I will almost 18 months. Yes, yeah, again 0% your fault but you know I'd message you like hey yes, you know you know it's people's lives and people's you know, it's money. It's not yet. I'm saying it's money that people wait for these cars to come back because they want to sell them to make money or, you know, sorry just I think I'm, you know, if you don't have that old stuff for a year, 18 months, this is sucks. Well for me, I'm just getting old. I can't remember what I said. The longer the longer they're out, I just can't get my mind, can't remember. And now I got to take pictures before I sent him to go. At least have a visual but but yeah, they put it on ahead and turn around a few weeks back Rob. And I'm not sure about that. But like he said, it's one of the things he wanted to get rid of. Of and best he could and like he said we don't really want to have people's cars that log that just yeah more chance for stuff to happen. Damage stuff goes missing all you know we want to get the cards back. It was just a matter of getting you know, like you said new hires, we have people trained, you know, keep in mind, they bought a building and your neck of the woods. Yeah. And in the New Jersey area and so they're growing and try to expand They bought other companies. I'm not trying to make excuses for him. I'm just saying stuff that's, that's accurate and true and they have caught up on the backlog. You know, the prices have come down, you know, you remembered. I remember the days where you could get, you know, guard graded at PSA for 10, 12 bucks. Yeah. We're not there yet and I guess my question to you Rob, I mean again it's all speculation right? So I'll get you ever think we'll see. You know, better 12.5 for grading. I don't know. I don't know if you'll see that. I don't think we'll see that cheap. I mean, not that. I'd love to see it a cheap, but I don't know with both now being where it's at, you know, whatever. Depending on if you'd sometimes, you know, if your collectors club, you could get right now. They have a special with the collectors club members. Think it's $15? I don't see it going much lower than that. I mean, less and less it just unless they can still, you know, pump out the influx that's coming in, And you know, they lower the prices, but I think it's a I think it's a decent price. You know, it's really going to keep that real real low-end stuff that I think really Jam them up last time. You know, people just send it in any little thing and then, you know, if you got a 10, you know, it was a twenty thirty dollar card now, but it's still at this price point within 15 to 20 bucks. It's going to keep that real low-end stuff not going in and not, you know, I could create help not create this backlog. Again of car. Words. Yeah, it's at a price. I think you hit it on the head to tell a price level, where you have again. It's not two or three hundred dollars anymore, that's good. But it still makes you think. Hey, is this word sending in exam this one? And it might, it might, you know, it might filter out some of those lower-level cards if you will hate to say it like that. But, you know, people know what I mean. I'm not trying to be dry. Like, everyone's cards are great to them but it might, It might prevent like you said that influx of cards that will get it to, you know, backlog 2.0, which I don't think anyone wants PSA. Obviously include when time to hear from one of our great sponsors, but sports card Nation will be right back after that. Okay, everybody have you heard about collectible it's the One-Stop shop for any collector can buy and trade affordable shares on some of the world's most rare and valuable. Sports cards and memorabilia starting from just five dollars for a Mickey Mantle 1952. PSA tens, will Chamberlain's iconic rookie uniform, 2101 Petra, my homes rpas, where LeBron James logo man's and everything in between collectible creates never seen before. Access and opportunities for all. Let's enjoy the hobby. We love together. Please note. This is not a recommendation or solicitation to buy any security. All investment decisions should be Undertaken after doing your own research. Let's go. You are listening to the sports card Nation Podcast. What's BSA in a reopen, I sit. Did you notice an immediate like people? Like, just wait, chomping at the bit to get their cards. Yeah. Who you back back to be sa? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. We actually had probably do maybe like two or three thousand cards like from when they shut. On the car that didn't make it in that it was just like, you know, just hold them. You know, thinking it was going to be 23 months and turned into six months, it turned into a year and but once once they, you know, started opening up. Like I think probably around the economy is when which was I mean still has like 50 bucks, but guys started saying all right rob you know, start sending this these cards there now and then I think value came next and that was around whatever $30. There's or whatever it was, and that's when most of the, everyone's basic, all right? Just start sending everything again and you know, from the basically, what's it got to Value? I think it really started started seeing a more of an influx of stuff. And now that both is back, you know, it's really, you know, when I go to the post office every other morning to the PO box, it's there's tons of packages there again. Yeah. Well that's a good. That's a good. Yeah, it's a good place to be. I got to ask you some, you know. Grady Niche questions again, open, you don't want for PSA or see your folks over but, you know, you hear the stuff right here. It is stuff. We both here, right? PSA has quota. So, you know, they're Grady like a there can't be any more tens of this. So this is going to get a nine or there's too many 9 so this meeting get getting a. Yeah I'm sure you've heard yeah. Those if you call my allegations or Rumors are Whispers to the that those gonads. What's your thoughts on that potentially? I mean, 'I think stuff like that goes out or how you answer that once, I don't know. I mean, I don't think so, I mean, what is it going to do for? And I just look at it, I understand like a value of 10 10, 10 s, but what does it do for? You know, for PSA, I just don't see them jeopardizing, you know, this, you know, God forbid. You had some guy that, you know, really work. That work, there was a Whistleblower and save these emails and send these emails out that, you know, the president sending or vice president sent to them that you have to, you know, maintain these quotas. I just don't see, you know this, this company frisking there, you know, business do over steal some nines and tens and in the end really well, how much is it really? I mean listen if it's a Mickey Mantle 52 rookie you know something like that who knows what every day cards. I mean it's a couple more tens of a couple less. Nine's really gonna shake out a big difference, you know, maybe to you and me, you know, because the PSA test worth more. But what is it really gonna do for for them? I mean, listen you would think that the more tense they put out the more people that get up charge. It's just more money for this. You know, if they could if they wanted to give tens, they would be given tens all the time and just up charging the crap out of everybody and just making it no more money. Yeah, I agree with you. Well said, right? Number one, like you said, I think you hit it on the head, like if that ever became public knowledge with with proof to back it up, that would be the end. Quite frankly that could be the end of PSA in and there's a sport people in that building. I don't think they're willing to risk being. Let's be real, the number-one Grading Company on the planet for, you know, an algorithm. And that's the other thing. It has to be done sort of by an algorithm. Now I will say this the Clippers

<span;>9:08 PM
<span;>Closest, I will. Just had a base level, maybe the greater itself said, you know, I just again, I'm not. This is all. I don't have any inside. Now, this is just a scenario. Maybe I'm a greater and I just created, you know, 789 Upper Deck. Griffey jr. Is all nines and this one's close and I'm like, you know what, I just created seven at a nine. This one's going to be innate, you know, maybe maybe something like that and there's it out. It's huge. It will never know. Yeah, that sort of small of a level II. Yeah, I tell people sometimes. Hey, maybe the guys have the greatest having a bad day today. I don't, you don't understand like listening. You're at the mercy of a greater really? I mean, you know, you don't know sometimes, people have bad days, you know, you get upset at work and you know, unfortunately maybe they take it out on on the card, you know, I mean I mean it's not it's not it's not where it's you know, set up that way. Way. It's just happens in the normal day of work. Is things happen? Yeah, it's all subjective, right? We're gonna get it. We're gonna get into that in a little more detail time for a quick break but we'll be right back. Hi, this is Patty hewes Cubs. Announcer coming to you from the sports card, shop in beautiful new Buffalo MI Michigan. The gotcher family has built an incredible place here for collectors to buy sell, and Trade cards and memorabilia. Be sure to stop by and let them show you around the sports card. Shop.com connecting Sports athletes The Hobby and collectors around the world schools called nation has returns.

<span;>So you know up charges is like it's only happened to me once Rob. So okay, so I like I've been whacked over the head a bunch of ties but the one time it happened wasn't fun. You know on one hand I guess you should be glad because she card rated probably higher. Yeah that may be anticipated. Put down, you know, you're paying more for in the sense, the same service. So you know, one of the things I went after that I when he was on the show, I said and I said, told him the same thing Robin like 20 happened. Me one snap, but really up charges. I just think that I don't like them. I like to see it either changed or whatnot you know he he described he said hey I felt the same way before I bought PSA. They got me a bunch of times to. I was mad. He was but but now being on the other side of the table, I see certain things cost more to insure this. There's more fees Chances are, we're going to have extra people. Now, look at that car just to get the grade right. You guys I know people don't like them but it's sort of a necessary evil. I'm not gonna lie. I told, you know, I, we kind of finished that segment out and I just told my mom gonna agree to disagree with, you know, that was his explanation. He made some point. I don't agree across the board. I mean, how often does that happen? Like for, you know, When card, you're subbing for people's, is it a house and a job? Yeah. I mean it's not it's not high but I mean I would say in probably every other order you know there may be two or three cards that get up charged. You know it's it's I mean it's usually the same player at the time or the same card at the time, you know, Weber's. Listen web has caused really hot and then you know going for big money at the time. As if it seems like those are the guys I'm sure they have a A list of players, you know, when they're doing their this thing that they pick out and you know who will cause you're going to get up charge or not. I mean I do tend to agree with you're saying as well, like you doing the same service. Yeah, I understand insurance is more. Okay. So, you know, maybe had some money on for insurance, but yeah, I agree it's tough when someone sends in a card, you know, paying a little thing $50. And then they get the of charge to repeal 300 or 600, you know, hey, you know, the cards worth a good amount of money but you know maybe just what you know, you are planning on spending that much money to have a graded and now, what are you gonna do? You're not going to say, hey, all right, crack it, I don't want it granted, you know, that's in the back. So it's a double-edged sword there with, you know, that I guess you just listens like, said agree to disagree. Yeah, it's, you know, I was trying to get them the Change it up and see what, you know, not going to happen, but they have their reasons for Necessarily agree. My take on it is you know here's my thing. If on PSA, right, I want all those great cards, right? I want to be the company, the collectors Choose You grade, the finest cards in the hobby. I don't want to penalize those folks for sending their cards to me. That's, that's kind of how I look and I may be penalized, might be too strong a word, but it's costing you more now to send that really card. But PSA will probably tell you it's going to make more with, you know, that PSA label, so chess game there. But, you know, it is what it is self. Another question, I asked that I want to get your opinion, you know, we hear some of these new grading companies, Rob mentioning, you know, AI grading done by a, I asked that about that. You know what? And, you know, his he says they're starting And to use it themselves at PSA, but they never want to be strictly in a Grading Company says. And I'm glad to hear that because like he said, you can put a card on the scanner it's not going. You're not going to see everything as you can. It's a lot different than having that in someone's hands with magnification looking at edges surface, that may be stuff that scanner can pick up what he says, what there. Susan, AI for sort of that intake of initial stuff in that but he said, they're always as far as he's concerned in the while, he's called the shots, they'll always be a human element to the grading process. He doesn't believe that all 100% a I can can actually be factored in work. You can't catch everything with just a computer or a scanner. I agree with him. I was glad to hear. I'm say that I'm sure you've gotten asked before, you know, your thoughts on the future with AI grading what you do you know, do you want to see it? Are you like me want to see sort of the combined elements but maybe a both integrated, the help each other but both the human, you know, the AI to help the human side and The Human Side to help the a, you know, where do you stand on that? Hot button? Grady Tubman? Yeah, yeah, I think I agree with you. You know, with your John definitely AI for certain things. Like I said, you know, how psa's using it for the intake and stuff, but I think you definitely need the human eye element into, you know, for the card. I mean, you know, the old ways, the old saying is, why you buy the card? Not the great, right? So it's like you want those people to look at the card and you know, you want to see that the card is an I know you want to see this attend, you know, you really want someone like you said to inspect the card. Using, you know, their tools and gadgets as well to see it. Just as good as you know, maybe if they did, if it was scanned, but you need that human element. You know, I think, you know, to do it. And I'm listen, I'm all about jobs and stuff, too. I mean, you start, these comments are making a, I've everything. You know, they start laying people off and let's just a whole lot of these stuff like me. Rub yourself. Yeah, you're so you're so like my twin brother with. Yeah, this stuff with this that. Yeah. I I agree. I agree. You know wasn't it's 2022. Soon-to-be 2023 here. I get technology has everything right. Not just not just a hobby, but all Industries and businesses and world's I get it that said they are they are already using it in some form and fashion, but he also said it'll never be 100%. You'll never, you know, he said PSA will never grade a card and not Not at not have a human element to. He won't get just a computer grade back. I was growing glad to hear that. Someone's at my door. I've got the cat laughs. Be right back. Are you a new sports car to like her or someone returning to the Hobby? Maybe you're just looking for a friendly trustworthy hobby Community, to hang out with and enjoy collecting Midwest. Box, presence has been bringing collectors together for many years with a portable break, helpful thread and a Discord group packed with generous, people who genuinely care about, Another time, check out the brakes at Midwest box breaks.com. Our goal is to bring you as much value as possible. Also find us on Twitter at Midwest Boxford. Hey folks John here just wanted to remind you use the discount code M bb10 for 10% off. Your first order at Midwest box breaks calm thanks for sticking with us. Let's return to the show.

<span;>I know some of the other places that use AI or, you know, hang there there had on that hook, you know, say, without a doubt that human error, or that greater, like, we mentioned earlier. Maybe they had a bad day and it's taking it out on someone else's cards. I like to give most people the benefit of the doubt that they're not going to do that. Yeah. And you know, but again, I still want that. I still want some human eyes looking over, not just my stuff but everybody stop. Yeah, definitely, you know, to get that true true grade. If you will, even if I don't agree with it when it comes back. Yeah. Grades would be, I still wouldn't trade that for just a scanner or some kind of 3D printer or thing you put in a box and then it pumps out a great. I just, you know, I'm not saying there's not a For that. But if there's still got to be a human hand. Yeah. That looks at that, with the, with the eye and magnification, that should he have some? Like I said, they have some AI That's probably helping streamline, a lot of the process and speed things along, but like I said, you always just need that. That I there is no to look over and stuff like that. Listen, I'm sure if someone went and did all day I to whole thing. Listen, computers make errors to, I mean, would you like to get up? You know, you get an order.

<span;>9:19 PM
<span;>Back that, you know, there's a glitch in the Okay, no good at once again with you never you never know, right? You never know. And again I like to human element and you know, that mentioned Rob that's what they're using for. A lot of the AI that they're you currently use. It is early going to kind of detect, maybe some fugazi's and fans the other fake cards, some thin down cards that maybe have been rolled to the this Card out to so they use it it weird if they are using it it's just not going to be 100%. Yeah. Card graded by the use of a I'll again not to sound like a broken record but I was glad to hear him say that it was one of the questions I wanted to ask him and get his take and he was he was very candid about it so you know he could have he could have been a little more vague but he was pretty pretty candid to say, you know, as far while he's calling the shots, it's Were going to be 100% of computerised. He just doesn't believe that you can be as accurate as you can be, well, used in both. So, I like, I, like the Nazi answer there, you know, we here, I want to get your take on it. Obviously, you handle some very expensive cards with what's up, you know, but both sobbing and not a lot of hobbyists or percentage of obvious, right? I hate the, I word, right, investment. They don't think the hobby, Is it a raspberry? I'm very easy answer that question. Rob might take his anything can be investment. Right? When I'm you put it into something is an investment, you know, I'll just practice acting. You're investing your time into getting better at a sport, you have let you know. So I believe investment can be applied to anything. Some Financial folks want to keep it strictly to their set of rules and whatnot. So you're not you don't have to convince me but you know the hobby can be an investment. Now I don't necessarily do it strictly for that but we all want our cards we're just as much money as possible. But if anyone says hey I'm investing in cards. I did. I think you can do that, you know, not be what me or you do or some other folks do but I don't think there's anything that's a wrong with it. Then you have your other like Financial Folks that say now you're it's a hobby, you can have expensive card, but they're not investments in the same fashion as a stock or Bond or financial elements. So, you get into that debate. I don't even get into the debate because it's just the rabbit hole but just as someone who I know handles and probably your own some, you know, nice cards and expensive, God just your take on the I word, as I like, I like to say, yeah. Yeah. I think it definitely could go like that. Both ways. I mean, is it it's you know that say it's not like the stock by mean it goes through Cycles, just like the style, you know, you got your highs and your lows. I mean there was a period of time, whatever 10-15 years ago when it was kind of real, you know, it was real slow people. I mean people still buy in but then you had, you know, these last couple years where this stuff is, you know, if you had some of those old man feels that you kept and you got him braided through this Spike. I mean you are making huge You making a kill and if you were looking to sell so I don't, I nothing I'm not against investing or just keeping for your for the hobby. Well it's like you said, you get your cards graded, you could say as much as you want. I just collect. I'm a hothead collect. But you know, you also have to have that in the back your mind. You don't know what could happen in the future. You know. You need that for a rainy day and you could turn to that collection and hey, look, I got fifty thousand dollars worth of cars here that I could set up and, you know, get me out. Of this Jam I'm in or you know, service and it's an investment, you know, they said they might come. You might not think of it that way that, you know, it's not as as good as, you know, investing in stocks or crypto now and ftes or needle, all the stuff that's going on. What we put except it's definitely, I think it's definitely an investment. I mean, listen, I have caught when I was a kid that I still have now and, you know, if I wanted to sell them, I could sell them to make a ton of money. And I always looked at Is that stuff, as, you know, not decided that I wanted to sell them but it was always an investment for when I was a kid. I'm investing is cards to potentially, maybe give them to my kids or potentially sell them, you know, to buy a house to buy a car or whatever the case is. And I see a boulder that have a lot of customers that send me stuff and, you know, a lot of its just like, said could be just, you know, basic cards. Nothing nothing high-end, but they just, you know, that the hobbyist they just, they just want their cards slept. And then you have the other guys that, you know, send you all there is stuff because, you know, they can't wait to sell. It so Camillus it goes both ways. I don't think it's a bad thing to say to cause your investment. I think, you know, they are but like with anything, you have good time to sell, good time to buy and then, you know, there's bad times just like, what, what any investment real estate stocks. It doesn't matter. Yep. We're waving the same pain and I like I said, it's easy answer for me because I believe anything can be an investment. It's What It's Worth, right? What kind of investment is In a bad one. You're buying the wrong stop. It's a bad investment, right? It, did you get a little lucky or you're smart? It's a good of, and you may not, like you said, you may not be, do you know, in the hobby because you're, you're looking at is an investment, but it still is at the end of the day, right? Even if I don't look at what I have around me, that's the Sara Lee. I'm not doing it. That's like thinking that first and foremost but if something was to happen, God forbid, you know my My wife and son private will not keep collecting so it'll be sold and then they're going to reap the rewards. That's it is that so you don't have to do it for that reasons. But I guess I disagree with those that just played out like big to heels in the state's not at all. We've seen you know when cards are good selling for 67 million dollars in auction in auctions. Don't tell me that's not. That's one big card right now you know My house is an investment and that's only a hundred thirty thousand dollars. Tell me a card that sells for six or seven million it's not not an investment. Yeah because that's my that's my way to sort of end the discussion but there's people will argue to the ends of the Earth and you're not going to win that. I kind of knew your answer Rob, but I just wanted to put you a little bit on the hot seat so it's time for a quick break but we'll be right back. For nearly 50 years, sports collectors digest has been the voice of the hobby. Bringing you comprehensive coverage of the sports, collectible industry from industry news auction results, market analysis, and in-depth, stories, about collectors, and their collections. Sports collectors digest, has everything you need to know about the hobby. SCD is also your leading source for listings of sports collectible dealers, card shops card. Shows in the From the industry's top companies to check out all the latest news or to subscribe to the Hobbies. Oldest magazine visit sports collectors digest.com or call one eight hundred eight to nine 5561, but you know, we've seen sort of the hobby sort of kind of calm down trying to correct itself. And then what do you see See, you know why me? What do you see the, you know, we got Fanatics now, taking over 3/4 of the major sports license in Ed lost some even their soccer like the landscape is evolving and changing pretty drastically. I mean, what do you want? You know, when you look at the hobby from sort of, you know, with binoculars, from, from a Long View, I mean, what do you think in the next? You know, let's say three to five years. What are your, you know, what do you feel? Right now, and you definitely it slowed down a little bit for sure. It could be a number of things. Listen. I mean, the holidays is coming up, you know, you just had the election going on. Yeah, so I mean, I saw a lot of that stuff, you know, had, you know, some people a little hesitant to spend, you know, money, I'm seeing it all over like, what not? And, and, you know, eBay just, you know, see this the sales even on somebody like the big auctions like golden and stuff. Just cause that you think are going to we're going to go for so much, you know, didn't get that number. Listen, I hope for hopefully, after the new year, you know, in the holidays, are over, everything will be behind and, you know, people will, you know, be looking to invest again, hopefully. And and, you know, stop moving things. Hopefully, once all these fanatic deals are all done and they have, you know, they can start doing their own their own thing. Fully. I think it's going to be good. Yeah, I know. I'm hearing a lot of crazy things, I don't know. What's true, what's not? I heard that they can start cutting out some more like these old Distributors that it just been killing people for. Yeah. I was say, that's Robert. I know as much as you do, quite frankly. I mean, you're probably hearing similar things that I think if I'm going to this distribution and of the hobby, yeah, I'd be a little ne</span;></span;></span;></span;></span;></span;></span;></span;></span;></span;></span;>