Ep.210 w/ Michael Gibbons of the Babe Ruth Birthplace & Museum

Transcript

al excited to talk to the next gentleman any sports card shop at Moco gas line he's the director Emeritus uh

and historian of The Babe Ruth birthplace and museum in Baltimore

Maryland uh welcome to the show Mr Michael Gibbons welcome Hey thank you

John thanks for having me on a real pleasure well I appreciate you I know you're busy

guy and and got a lot of stuff on your plates I appreciate you uh joining us uh

today you know Babe Ruth I don't care whether you're a Yankee fan uh or

whatever your fandom is I mean he's an icon of baseball maybe you know the true

first icon uh of the sport uh in the terms Like We Know It uh today kind of

uh and we're gonna definitely talk about uh the man in the legend himself kind of

the history you know your history in in the Museum's history and how they sort of intertwine uh as well

well I've been involved with the Babe Ruth birthplace museum for 40 years

and uh and so uh my start came back in

1982 I was uh I was a documentary producer and I was doing a documentary

um I had been commissioned to do one on Babe Ruth so I'm in Baltimore and and I thought well I think one of the first

stops I need to make is to go down to the Babe Ruth uh birthplace and see what

they can tell me because I uh certainly as a baseball fan I was aware of Babe

Ruth uh you know and I I was aware that he was born in Baltimore but aside from

the big records the 60 home runs and things I didn't know a whole lot and and so uh you know this is 1982. I I took

off and went down there and um interviewed the people who worked there and in addition to finding out

um some limited information about Babe Ruth uh I I found out that that that the

institution was struggling so as a baseball fan I've said well let me see

what can we do to make the Babe Ruth Museum healthy or healthier and so I got

involved and we made a project got the Orioles involved did some Orioles

display uh at the birthplace why because when I went to the Orioles I said you

know uh the Baltimore Orioles signed Babe Ruth to his first contract back in 1914 and so there is even though it was

a minor league Orioles franchise there was a link between the Orioles and Ruth

and uh the the general manager of the Orioles at the time a guy named Hank Peters who was a pretty good GM by the

way he uh he said sure sounds great to me do your thing and I was like okay

great so we we got going and um kind of got the Babe Ruth Museum on a more solid

footing and uh after about a year or so they asked me to uh to become the

executive director of The Babe Ruth Museum and I had no idea what that meant so

um uh you know anyway I got involved uh in a formal way and set off on a journey

that has brought me to your show right now and that is um to live in an office over top the

room where Babe Ruth was born in 1895 and to learn everything that I could

about the man about the legend about the ball player and all of those things and

uh so um you know going back to your original statement

um you know he is the iconic figure of baseball but quite frankly he is the

American icon of all sports played in this country I mean he is the most

celebrated athlete um in any of our lifetimes uh probably

around the world I I would think uh a Babe Ruth autograph um is as recognizable as any autograph

on the face of the Earth how about that you know Abraham Lincoln how about how

about Babe Ruth probably more so so yeah um uh he's a great ball player you know

within the past year with Aaron judge um with ohtani doing his thing as a pitcher

and power hitter uh we've had a lot of media attention people want to talk about Babe Ruth

um our belief is that he remains the standard against which all major

league players measure themselves he had 206 career

um uh uh uh you know number one marks you know he set records 206 records uh

most of which have been broken but nevertheless think about that and uh I think that Aaron judge when he hits uh

62 or whatever it's it's Babe Ruth you know that's that's where the attention

goes back to yeah crazy I gotta ask you and obviously

in 1982 the building and and what what the the museum was then to now is vastly

different what was it like when you first showed up in in 82 for obviously we we could you know we can't go back in

a time machine but we're someone who saw it in 82 how would you describe uh where

they were at that time with the location well um the city of Baltimore kind of

ran uh they owned the Babe Ruth birthplace and they appointed a a

curator or a director but I think curator is what they called him at the time to run the Babe Ruth house which is

what they called it and the Edgar Allan Poe house another uh icon who happened

to live in Baltimore he wasn't born in Baltimore but Edgar Allan Poe lived in Baltimore for a while and so the city

owned both of these properties and they had one guy and he he kind of managed

both of those properties he was not a baseball fan and so there was no real passion attached to the presentation

that I saw at the Babe Ruth Museum when I when I got there um they had opened in 1974. that's when

it opened to the public Ruth was born in 1895 the building was one of four row

houses on the southwest side of Baltimore city and in a neighborhood

that ultimately uh decayed over time and um lapsed into real disrepair and the

building was scheduled for demolition uh as late as 1967 I think

um but the mayor of Baltimore's press secretary a guy named um hirch Pacino he

uh he went to the mayor and he said they're going to tear down the Babe Ruth house

we can't allow this to happen you know he's he's important and the mayor agreed

and so uh they put together a campaign to raise money they restored they bought

and restored the properties and uh in 1974 they opened to the public as the

babers of birthplace Shrine the exhibits that I saw nine years later or eight

years later um were um modest at best they had a statue of

Babe um a wax figure when you came in and it unfortunately it depicted Babe Ruth when

he had cancer so he disheveled and and skinny and weak and you know the way he

looked um and I thought this is not a good way to present the Bambino in his birthplace

so um we uh we started to change things around make and make it more a dynamic

almost from the minute I got there and since I got there

the birthplace has enjoyed and hosted about 1.2 million visitors and this is

for a property that is not huge but uh you know it has done it's done well uh

we've had good years and you know the pandemic hurt but anyway a steady

visitation people come from all over the world to see where Babe Ruth was born

yeah and just to think how you you know and listening to you Michael how close that building like you explained came to

to not existing anymore quite frankly and that's uh that's scary to think right you you know that uh uh it may not

be there for people to pay their respects and visit uh and see and uh

thankfully uh it still is and and I know uh you know with what you've done it's

it's a lot different than than like you said it was uh in

1982. so I mean just talk about uh you know how many approximately I mean how

many items pertain pertaining to the Babe are housed within the museum uh

itself oh um thousands uh yeah we get donations

not every day but every week uh you know some very unique things come to us from

time to time on Babe Ruth uh but you know when I got involved

um people were more inclined in the early 80s to donate things to museums

like Cooperstown or the Babe Ruth Museum or whatever um but but within that decade that first

10 years or whatever that I was there I watched a Babe Ruth autographed baseball

uh go from a value of about a hundred dollars for a baseball unless it was an

extraordinary um you know baseball that had big history behind it but about a hundred bucks to uh thousands of dollars within

the first 10 years that I was there and I realized that whereas people initially

when I got involved were donating things then it became more of a challenge for us to get the items into the the museum

so we had to make a decision pretty early on that if John Newman

had a Babe Ruth autographed baseball that he was toying with the idea of

selling it or doing something with it at a museum would we take a loan

and it was like yeah I'll take the loan our job in my opinion anyway is to get

an artifact that helps us interpret the Babe Ruth Story and get it on display

for the public so that they can enjoy it I don't care who you know what the provenance is I don't care who owns it

my job is to get that art the John Newman autographed baseball of Babe Ruth

out on display to the public so that uh that the fans can enjoy it and that

that's that's pretty much our mission we do get a lot of donations but also have

a lot of things prominent things on display at the Museum like the Babe Ruth rookie card which are loaned To Us by

benefactors who understand the value of getting stuff out in front of the public

yeah that was going to be a question I was going to ask Michael's you know what

percentage like does the museum itself own outright to like to stuff that's

maybe uh on loan like hey it's still my item but I'm gonna let the museum put it

on display what would you say the percentages I would say that probably 80

percent of what of ruthian items that we display are owned by the museum and that

but you know we pick and choose if there if there's something really cool um that uh like the Babe Ruth rookie

card that we think the public really needs to see uh then we're going to

bring that in and but whatever helps us to tell the story but but in truth most

most of the stuff at least Babe Ruth um uh stuff is is in the possession of

the museum now we have um over over the over all of these

decades that I've been involved have have evolved to become a de facto State

sports museum so we we have the Orioles collection the Ravens collection the

cult Baltimore Colts collection Maryland Terrapins Michael Phelps um uh Carmelo Anthony uh prominent

marylanders home run Baker Lefty Grove and guys like that so we have those things within our our collection a lot

more of those items especially with the current active teams like the Oreos or the Ravens or the Terps

um they're on loan from the institutions or teams that we represent

yeah and you mentioned carmeloa today I'd be remiss uh here in Syracuse he's

uh he's revered here uh as well as he brought brought to school there only uh

you know basketball championship here in Syracuse and uh well we we have his we

have his Syracuse championship ring so uh yeah yeah it's uh but that that's

how that works uh you know I I think that um people local people uh this is

the local sports museum although it has an uh kind of an a national uh Panache

about it is certainly led by Babe Ruth but also by guys like Michael Phelps and Carmelo Anthony and Johnny Unitas and

stuff like that it has it has a national appeal as well so um it it's a we never

go to work um without passion because uh you know the the collection that that we protect

the collection that we preserve uh the legacies that those artifacts help us to

preserve uh the stories that we can tell are terrific yeah that's that's great and and you

know to think I I mean I'm looking I'm planning to to come out next year uh so

I'm anxious to see you know uh what what you have uh amongst Babe Ruth and the

other stuff um Carmelo's a sneaker is about this long yeah oh yeah oh yeah I believe it I

believe basketball guys have have a huge feat yeah now I'm I'm not too far from

from Cooperstown I'm about 60 70 minutes here uh in Syracuse from Cooperstown

obviously there's quite a bit of Babe Ruth memorabilia uh you know housed

there as well do you have any communication with the Baseball Hall of Fame is there any kind of uh like you

know maybe exchange you want to display this or if I you know is there any kind of yeah are you are you on those terms

with with the Baseball Hall absolutely yeah I mean you know I'm not going to tell you you that we have daily

communication with them but it's probably weekly where Tom shiver who is

their Chief curator at the Baseball Hall of Fame is a dear friend

um the saber convention National saber convention was in Baltimore this year Tom and I did a show uh on Babe Ruth and

I think 400 people showed up uh you know to listen to this panel discussion so it was great but um yeah we have a good

relationship with the hall uh for many years and you know I I think that in the

in the world of um baseball history we we who help preserve or try and

preserve that history and the Legacy we need to help each other we need to share

stories um if I need something uh on Babe Ruth or somebody else uh I I'm certainly

encouraged to call Tom uh to say what can you you got anything on this that

kind of stuff and he'll do the same with me uh we also you know work with the Smithsonian

um they did an exhibit on Babe Ruth a few years ago and we collaborated with

them uh uh providing prep precious artifacts to go over to uh to the

Smithsonian to help them tell the story of Babe Ruth so um that but that's our job that's what

we do now I know I spoke to you before we we hit record uh you know you're gonna be

celebrating uh the 50th Anniversary uh of the museum uh in 2024 but you you're

going to start that celebration uh leading into it uh in 2023

um it will that be a situation where maybe the hall uh will send some stuff

uh back to the to to you guys there uh to to celebrate that or you have you

went down that road is that what may occur or or just talk about that that

could uh you know we've got a window of about two to three months to figure out

uh uh precisely what we want to do and and to you know

the Babe Ruth Museum turns 50 in July of 2024. our notion right now is that we

would like to because he only turned 50 one time as you know yeah um

start the celebration um this next July July of 23 and run it

all the way through 24. so it would be an 18-month look at what the museum has

accomplished uh and I'm sure the Hall of Fame will be involved with that in some capacity we

haven't thought that through all the way but one thing that you that you and I were talking about before recording was

um the notion that we would over the 18-month celebration period from July of

23 to December of 24 sorry to uh overwhelm people with too many stats but

um that maybe we would feature a precious artifact of Babe Ruth

of the month right every month we would feature an artifact and maybe

we would let the fans vote for what the what would they like to see and maybe we

give them a menu a roster of um what we think are our most precious artifacts

but get us to 18 help us celebrate what you want to see and maybe you help us

with that um I don't know yeah I I'd love I'd love to I'd love to promote that and get the

word out there and get people involved for sure no doubt no doubt so

again you know we're we're incubating this right now and

um so you know we'll see how all this goes but um that's going to be exciting

for us um you know just to go through these next two years so we're we're really excited

yeah I mean you know a lot about uh the man Babe Ruth I mean maybe share a

couple things that maybe the average person you know I grew up in New York City and like you said even from a

little a little kid I I was made aware of of Beirut at a very uh young age

obviously as I got older I learned even more maybe share a couple things that

unless you're a die-hard Babe Ruth you know fan or you know you may not realize

about them there's anything that sticks out yeah um well well

um as as an old documentary guy you know you're a media guy so uh I am too and

when I got to the museum I thought one of the first things that we ought to do

was start to talk to people and put them on tape you know and talk and and in

1982 when we started recording people um there were a lot of a lot of guys

around and girls who had first-hand experience with Babe Ruth guys who

pitched against him guys who batted against him um uh teammates different things like

that so we our audio archives is uh pretty astonishing

um but perhaps the the most important interviews of the thousands of hours of

interviews that we've conducted over the years with people about Babe Ruth uh

were interviews that we did with his daughter Julia

who just passed away a couple of years ago at the ripe old age of 103 and she

was a dear friend and only surviving sister Mamie

the Ruth family Catherine and and George senior had eight children

and only two survived early childhood uh George Babe Ruth and Mary Mamie Ruth

Moberly and so the interviews that we got with both of those women are pretty

revealing uh maybe Babe's sister told us that when he was

sent off to Saint Mary's Industrial school and by the way uh he did he's not

an orphan he had a family um he was a bit of a delinquent

um but we have found out over time that by the time he turned seven and he's

kind of running the streets and maybe he'd go to school and maybe he wouldn't the state of Maryland passed a rule a

law saying that if children were truant from school that they would be put away

in state institutions and Babe Ruth's father George senior

knowing that his son was truant from time to time decided he did not want his

kid to be placed uh in a state institution and uh paid for him to go to

St Mary's Industrial School uh that was not known for a really long time so

anyway that happened and that's how babe ended up at St Mary's but Mamie told us that she and

her mother would go take the streetcar from downtown Baltimore uh uh to St

Mary's Industrial School a distance of a couple of miles and uh by the way St

Mary's Industrial school if you come to Baltimore uh I'll take you out there uh

or you know you can go and see where Babe Ruth learned how to play baseball it's very cool very it's very very cool

um but anyway uh Mamie said that when she and her mother visited babe at St

Mary's it was like going into a prison they would send them into a giant

Meeting Hall probably the cafeteria or something yeah and um that they would be

taken in first and seated at like a lunch table or whatever and then

of what Saint Mary's called their inmates would be brought in to meet with the

families so George George Jr would be brought in uh the inmate to meet with

Mamie and um and uh her mother his mother as well and he would have 30

minutes and then they were out of there but it was uh Mamie said it just always

felt like a prison um so here is that and and you know so that's first-hand information that you

get now Julia um she has so many stories to tell over many years but some of the more

interesting things that I found out was that uh babe really enjoyed listening to

radio shows and when he was home uh in their New York apartment they would uh

on Sunday night after dinner uh Julia and her father would go into the Radio

Room whatever that was and uh she said his favorite shows were the Lone Ranger

and the Green Hornet you know it's it's made stuff

um yeah get that another story that we found out that probably uh it's never

been recorded in a biography uh Jane Levy did you know the big fella have you

read that by the way no no I haven't but uh yeah okay I'll put it on my list I

like to re you know I I'm a teaching assistant now so I have a some some more

time to to read I've really taken up I've always read books in some capacities but I I go through them a

little quicker now now so I'll put that on your list for sure well you know because guys like you and me live sports

every day yeah um I tend not and I'm a Avid Reader and I I taught college for

23 years I taught College writing so that's great I'm all around words and stuff like that but I don't read a lot

of sports books um because I live it every day yeah and but but but Jane spent a lot of time at

the Museum doing research in our archives listening to all the audio interviews and

um she concentrates uh on a lot of things but one one of the things is his

early days in Baltimore which is important to us because that's that's what Baltimore can Embrace is that time

from 1895 to 1914 when he goes off to Fayetteville North Carolina to his first

spring training and uh she reveals some stuff uh that none of us knew and and

it's really good but one thing she didn't get was that in

1908 now let me think about this Ruth is born in 1895 so he's 13. 13 years old

uh it's amazing to me that this stuff hasn't gotten out before but

um St Mary's Industrial school which is a Catholic School Xavier xavierian

Brothers run it and they had a sister School in Detroit I think by the name of

Saint Leo's and Saint Leo's was located right next to

um a manufacturing firm and they made adding machines I think it was Burrows

Burrows adding machines don't quote me on that but anyway um

Burrows adding machines had joined an industrial League Baseball thing uh so

they joined a baseball league and they thought that would be good a good incentive for their employees to stay

with Burrows because they were offering them um you know a chance to play ball competitively and you know all that

stuff this is 1908. um so Burroughs wanted to win the

industrial League Championship so they got in touch with St Mary's Industrial

St Leos who went to St Mary's Industrial school and St Mary's shipped like 10

players and a coach brother Matthias who taught Ruth how to play baseball and

they went to Detroit for the summer think about this and they won the

championship as ringers these kids you know teenagers

um and and nobody knew that and now we know it and it's true uh it's

yeah it's an amazing story as part of what keeps mild bones uh going every day

is that these stories continue to come to surface and uh and help fill out more

the story of Babe Ruth yeah no doubt you mentioned some of those you know uh conversations with uh

relatives that that are in the archives now as they have you know uh passed on are there any current descendants or

current family uh of of Babe like that that's involved or that you see or talk

to or come to the museum sort of yeah um uh on Julia so there are two daughters

Dorothy and Julia okay and um so Dorothy died in the early 80s I

actually I met her just as I got to the Babe Ruth Museum and then a a little

while later she passed away so I didn't have a relationship with her but she has five five children I think

and Julia who I got to know really well for a really long time she had one son Tom

um so we have a grandson on Julia's side and we have the grandchildren on Dorothy's side

um and Linda to seti who is a grandchild of Darth or a child of Dorothy

um kind of heads up that side of the family so um it the you know the

Heritage continues yes the Heritage continues yeah which is nice to hear you know it's

nice here while they may not you know have known them directly that they can still you know instill their relative

and they can and and they're believe me they're passionate they're passionate about it and as as they should be so uh

uh you know we one of the precious artifacts that we do have in the museum

um uh Julia back I think in 2007 I met her in Cooperstown we were there for Cal

ripken's induction into the Hall of Fame and um you know so I went over to

um her hotel to say hi and uh so you know we gave each other a hug and and

she said Michael I want you to hold out your hands and I held on my hand she said I want to give you something for

all the work that you've done to to preserve my father's Legacy close your eyes I close my eyes and into my hands

she put his rosary wow um this is the Catholic the the

beads yeah if people don't know what a rosary is but uh anyway she told me that

he had carried this throughout his life I don't know where he got it from she didn't tell me that whether it came from

Saint Mary's which is well the Catholic religion kind of thing going on um but it was uh on the post of his

deathbed in the New York Hospital and we have that on display at the

Museum and uh you know it it's artifacts like that uh that help us really

interpret the story of that man's life you know yeah yeah no no doubt and to to

give it to you and now everyone can can see it there uh you know you mentioned

about the the 50th uh uh and you know anniversary celebration and having

people you know select sort of their favorite uh you know items I gotta ask

you you know I know you just told the story with the rosary well obviously like you mentioned there's thousands of

of items pertaining to Babe Ruth in his life and Legacy what are some of your favorites that even though you've seen

them countless times still you know maybe put you in little awe or you still

stop and and think about you know what it kind of uh represents or or the

history of the item itself but what are a few of those that may be right at the

top of your list uh yeah yeah there are many but

um I'll give you a couple um sir we have a bat that he used in

1927 Theory had 60 home runs and it's it's War it has two characteristics that

make it unique one is that it is slightly warped

huh and it's on display in a case yeah so if you were in the museum and you looked at at that case you would go you

would your your brain would say that thing is curved it's got a slight

curve to it it's warped um so that's one and people remark about that it's saying

is that that is that that really am I seeing what is correct because today

Major Leaguers don't use warped bats you know it's this but this is 1927. the

other thing is that it has notches um on the handle that

these little marks little scratches yeah so and there's

like 10 of them or something uh what and we don't have no idea

what those notches I mean if I was to guess I'm sure you probably thought about I'm thinking are they home runs

yeah where are they hot dogs I I I but it's but it's notched and uh it's

very cool so that I I love that one um we we also have Babe Ruth got married

two times in 1914 when he came home from his first year uh with the Red Sox and then with

Providence in the minor leagues he met a a a Boston waitress Helen Woodford and

uh he brought her home to Baltimore after the season and uh

brought her to her daddy into his daddy's Saloon they lived over top and they got married in Ole old Ellicott

City um where I live and um uh in October of

1914 we have the original marriage certificate from that wedding which is

kind of cool I like that you know yeah uh how in the hell did that survive you

know um maybe because he even as a rookie in

1914 he was a celebrity at least in Baltimore you know I mean people were

like oh my gosh so that's really cool so we have that um we have

the official score book from the first uh professional game he

ever played uh regular season as an oriole it was like April 22nd 1914 he

pitched against Buffalo and beat them six to nothing and we have the scorecard

the professional scoreboard from that game which is astonishing to me that

that I didn't uh that was that was there when I got there you know I don't know

how it got there but it's there so uh that's an important one Babe Ruth we

think may have been the first uh uh American athlete to have business cards

so we have a Babe Ruth uh business card George H Ruth

um 1918 Boston Red Sox and it has his stats as a pitcher you know whatever his

record was it was good uh with his era and the one lost record and it says George H Ruth Boston Red Sox you know

and value to sixty thousand dollars right and but we have to understand that he

maybe is the first American athlete to have a business card he's the first American athlete

um or professional baseball player to have an agent the first baseball player

to endorse merchandise we have Babe Ruth underwear which is for kids not for Babe

Ruth um you know it's a product and and so and we have some of that and all of that

is um just really important I think to us we have a bat

that Shoeless Joe Jackson used in a game

now Shooters Joe is ahead of babe in the baseball chronology he he started before

Babe Ruth did so Babe Ruth comes along um probably meets Joe in 1915

um or 16 at the latest uh leading up to you know what happened in 1919. yeah

um and so Joe had his baseball model back this big

thick handled thing that you'll see if you come to the museum and um

he gave it to Babe Ruth and said here kid yeah check this one out before you

select your own Louisville Slugger model so we have a bat game used by shirtless

Joe Jackson and Babe Ruth that's kind of cool yeah I like that very cool uh and I

I I'll Venture a pretty safe guess probably only one in existence

I hope I think so when Ruth went to Japan in

1934 heading a list of American All-Stars coached by Connie Mack

featuring Jimmy Fox and Lou Gehrig and and moberg The Catcher And you know who

was the spy and all that stuff the Japanese adored Babe Ruth we have

home movies from American missionaries that uh women came to the museum in my

early days there um the women who had shot Babe Ruth's home movies uh playing baseball in Japan

and then as this is 1934 as it they got closer to war with the United States the

American missionaries smuggled themselves and the film out of the country and ultimately brought it to the

Babe Ruth Museum in the early 80s and donated it to us but

um you know we had that they gave us the film and all of a sudden we were on the

Today Show uh showing that film because that's the cachet of babers you know we

have new films Babe Ruth oh my God we gotta see you know and that's and that continues to this day John

um yeah he's the man he's the man yeah I mean how often do you get something uh

new is it like you said you is it weekly or maybe not not that often at this

point because of of where we're at on the timeline or you know how

well um yeah I would say uh I mean something just came across today

um a family uh just emailed a you know an attachment

and they've got a it looks like a a Babe Ruth coin or pin I think it's a pin uh

that depicts him probably as a Boston Brave uh it's a facial thing and they're

like what do we do with this so in a lot of cases

we will assist people trying to find the right the right uh Avenue to approach to

deal with this memorabilia um certainly we would like to have things donated to

us but we know that that's not always realistic uh a realistic option for

people especially if there is a a big dollar sign attached to uh whatever they've got

yeah let me try and help them a little bit and what I mean by that is um we we will direct them to experts who

we know because we're not we're not appraisers we are not authenticated we don't we're not in that business so I I

might direct somebody to you or to Danny black or to it a couple of appraisers

that we use in the Baltimore area and just say um we think that this thing may have

value here's who you need to be in touch with and uh then they go about their business and sometime

um that results in a donation to us or a loan to us yep well you you showed me two cards uh

you know before we we hit record uh from the 1914 uh Baltimore news but the you

know the one card everyone made made a lot of a lot of waves in the industry uh

this year is the The Babe Ruth uh from that set

um which is in the museum uh you know uh estimated value uh is uh six million

dollars uh and uh you know less than 10 copies uh probably exist if if that

um I mean I gotta think that's probably one of the the centerpieces I mean even

though you have a thousands of items I I gotta think that's one of the first things you know I made like I said made

a lot of news uh fractionalized by Collectible who actually are a sponsor of the show talk a little bit uh about

uh you know the the provenance of that card and that

yeah um so we had uh the papers rookie card which

is what we call it it's a lot of more news so this depicts Babe Ruth um it's a vertical uh photograph

of Ruth uh in an Orioles uniform he although he

has a like a warm-up jacket on Seattle Jersey but he's in uniform it's a

sideways shot of vertical full you know uh head to toe of Babe Ruth and it says

Ruth pitcher Baltimore or whatever yeah and um uh so Babe Ruth started his

career with the Orioles in 1914 and um and by the way I'll tell you a little

story that your people probably don't know okay so babe babe ruth is a high

school at Mount at St Mary's Industrial school he is a pitching Phenom you know

he's 18 years old and his lights out and word is getting

out there to the extent that the Oriole minor league Orioles owner manager Jack

Dunn goes to Saint Mary's to see a marquee match-up between Babe Ruth

pitching for Saint uh St Mary's Industrial School versus Billy Morrissette who is pitching

for Mount St Joseph's High School also controlled by the xavierian brothers so

it's two Catholic schools and the game is played at St Mary's Jack Dunn goes sees this game Babe Ruth dominates Billy

Morissette who also got signed by the Orioles by the way but anyway so Jack Dunn

um on Valentine's Day of 1914 goes to St Mary's Industrial school

um and talks to the brothers there and says I want to offer George a

professional contract so uh and and it's for 600 bucks

um and so they said well that's fine but

you need to sign uh papers that make you his legal

guardian because we are not allowed to release these kids until they're 21. we

are responsible for them so Jack Dunn says I will sign legal guardian papers and Babe Ruth goes off to the Orioles

and Fayetteville North Carolina in February of of uh 1914 and when he gets

down there uh with the Orioles he's like exuberant

he's crazy he's never been in an elevator he rides up and down he's never

been on a bicycle he's up and down they almost got killed uh riding the bicycle he's doing all these things and so his

teammates start calling him Jack Dunn the owner manager who signed

him to his contract they call him jack Dunn's baby and by mid-march of 1914 in

spring training The Baltimore Sun refers to him as Babe Ruth Jack Van's

baby equals Babe Ruth so that happens so now this card um

there are um we have 13 1914 Orioles on display at the Babe Ruth

Museum one of those cards is a Babe Ruth one is of Jack Dunn that's kind of cool

too you know that's really good uh the these cards are on loan to us from an

owner who wishes to remain anonymous yeah and um because you can guess why

and uh so but the stipulation between the owner and US was

if we're going to do this and display these cards

we need to do this correctly and the security has to be top-notch and we're

going to need you uh to help us the owner to help us do

this if we are to display these cards which is what to the owner's credit which is what he wanted to do he wanted

those cards out in front of the public so um the owner put up some money we we

matched the money and we put in a top-notch security system the case was

King I've got a Dream speech papers yeah uh worth millions and millions of

dollars and so we put in a lot of additional security uh so this thing is

secure uh in to the best of our ability I mean you know somebody with a bomb and

blow up stuff you do that you're you're defeating the purpose anyway that's right what you're

trying to get you know but I will tell you I've been around for a while um we have had a couple of artifacts

stolen from us wow over 40 years and in both cases we got the artifacts back and

you know why because um the first time it happened I was scared to death I I was new

um yeah and artifact was stolen and um uh you know the people who mentored

me said get the word out don't worry about the reputation in the museum just get the word out because they can't move

hot property and in fact that was the case both times

we have not had any theft activity down there in 30 years so um you know we're

we're pretty confident that we've we have good security uh we have a very secure archives and we need to because

you know we have a great collection and uh and and it's really good but anyway

this rookie card as the is displayed with its 12 Oreo teammates

is a centerpiece for our presentation at the Museum right now I mean it's it's

what people want to see people from out of town coming in they want to see the rookie card but what I showed you before

and I don't know if we can do it very effectively here there are 13 1914 Oreo

cards known to exist and in in two cases

the museum had duplicates of two of the 13 cards so in other words

there are 13 cards on display but there are two cards who there's two copies and

players already on display and and here they are um they they are let's see who they are

stand by one second yep yep we have a a picture uh named Davidson

and the and these These Guys by the way uh

to anything but this is an original 1914 card I'm gonna tell you a little caveat

about this and the other player is a batter uh a Fielder by the name of

twombly and and here's twombly yep and uh so you

see him and but I mean these are not household names in Major League Baseball

history or whatever but because of their Association to the rookie card yeah they

are extremely valuable um

listen like they're number one they're 108 years old uh at this point the cards

themselves and like you said just the the Rarity of those cards that are that

are left that haven't been destroyed uh right and I and you know I I'm probably

not breaking any news to you I don't the you know the The Story Goes they didn't make even even in 1914 they

didn't produce a lot of them even then when they were new and so uh not many

have survived the test of time and so just on that the correlation with being

teammates of you know a legend uh Babe Ruth uh the value is is is built in

there and just uh absolutely that you have cool that you have all those cards done that you know obviously the roof is

the centerpiece but the fact that you you have the whole set um is you know together like that uh

it's just uh tremendous yeah I mean it really is and to see

every day to see fans come in and and behold the cards and of course

we have a video presentation on what is it that makes baseball cards so special

to American culture America's culture you know it it and actually we have uh

you know Cooperstown uh is a talking head in what is it about baseball cards

that makes them more valuable than football cards or basketball cards or any cards you know

um they are what they are but there is there is a rationale behind that there

is a reason which I'm not going to bore you with but it's it's pretty intriguing and um but they are near and dear to us and

and uh certainly these cards um as uh the guy from Cooperstown said

it's like you can your favorite player back in the day a long time ago people

just put them in their pocket it was like yeah I got a little piece of my guy here you know and I'm not sure it's that

way anymore today but you know what I mean yeah yeah a little more well back

you know back then I mean people were listening will will probably be nodding their heads and they know back then like

you said it was more hey this is my favorite player my favorite team uh and

that's why I like this card did you have a favorite player as a kid yeah I was

you know being from Brooklyn um uh obviously he he actually died a month before I was born but being a

Brooklyn kid Michael and you see him wearing a Brooklyn Dodger hat Jackie Robinson uh to me even though I didn't

get to see him personally play and quite frankly you know never was on the planet

at the same time while we were both alive because uh you know he passed away in in October of 72 I was born in

November of 72 but uh what he meant to not just the the Brooklyn Dodgers the

city but uh just Society uh in general and the things he stood for uh and and

you know what the difference that he made on and off the field uh my dad who grew up going through lots of games in

Evans field and shared those stories uh with me uh he became someone I looked up

to you know anytime I had to do and that's say or a book report he was

always the guy I would I would focus on to the point I've said this on my podcast uh more than once it it to the

teachers would say you did you got to pick someone else John you can't keep you know doing like essays or speeches

or or you know pick pick someone else and then I usually would pick you know another Brooklyn Dodger play maybe you

know Duke Schneider Roy Campanella or someone along those lines so for you know and then uh you know as far as

current players went living in New York I was a big Thurman Munson guy uh and

then you know he tragically passed away that I I've told the story that was the first time I believe I was seven or

eight uh when uh you know when he passed and I didn't even at that age I hadn't

went to a wake or a funeral I didn't really know what death was and so when the when I saw the news report on TV the

that Thurman Munson was gone I didn't really grasp the gravity of the

situation and this will tell you how little I grass it I remember asking my

grandfather does that mean Thurman's not going to play baseball anymore I didn't even you know and he he had that was

when he had to explain to me kind of really what death was and I I cried you

know I didn't and at that point I had never met Thurman I watched him play but I didn't have any connection other than

watching them play and him being my favorite player but that's how I learned the finality of what death was and it

hit me to the point that I was literally crying for not a family member or

someone that I I personally knew that was gone but someone that meant something that I saw play that's you

know then John Lennon or you know whatever order that was was really the the first two that stick out to me where

I learned kind of like the finale of life life and that you know so Thurman

Munson you know as far as like uh watching play and Jackie was was my guy

that I just uh learned about and and idolized and respected and and you know

Babe Ruth though again like you can't be from New York and not know about Babe

Ruth my dad I actually had my dad on the show my dad's uh you know still around

he's 84 years old and he's obviously went to Ebbets Field but he he saw Babe

Ruth and Yankees uh you know no he didn't see him but he knew about him but he he

you know he remembers when you know he was on the show and he told me the story when it came across the radio

that Babe Ruth had passed away and everyone knew he was very sick and that's what was going to wind up but he

says even when that that you heard those words on the radio he says I wasn't a

Yankee fan you know I was a Brooklyn Dodger fan but even to me Babe Ruth was

an icon he was big and my dad said he cried he cried in the streets and he

went out in the streets uh you know and this is Brooklyn New York and people

were crying like whether you were a Brooklyn Dodger fan a New York Giant fan

obviously a Yankee fan or any whatever your team was but it didn't matter you

know what team where your fandom lied uh Babe Ruth meant that much to everybody uh where it didn't matter what Jersey

you rooted for a legend was gone and and you know in New York one as well a

national one obviously but obviously in in the boroughs in New York it really

really he said you know it wasn't really a dry eye on the street

and that's all that well there couldn't be you know because Ruth um something we like to say

is that he is the most celebrated baseball player of all time

but he he has crossed the line to become an American cultural icon

he is on the Mount Rushmore of famous Americans with JFK and Martin Luther

King and and Marilyn Monroe and you know what I mean I mean he Abraham Lincoln Babe Ruth is up there and um so when

when you lose someone of that stature he's like I mean you know for guys like

you and me and I'm older than you by a bunch um well I'm catching up to you well

don't catch up too quick but when the the only thing I can liken to what

America went through when Ruth went from the Red Sox to the Yankees for the 1920s

season um it was like the Beatles arriving here in 1964. you know it was like it just it

was a wave that rolled over this country and Ruth was like that you know he was

like the Beatles um and there there can only be one Beatles And there can only be one Babe

Ruth and that's that's the truth um so that's what that's what we deal

with on a day-to-day basis is how do we perpetuate the legacy of that guy and

you know what it's not that hard because he he is he's just that guy you know and

uh and it's wonderful so uh uh you know we will we will keep at this job keep

our passion um try and find every way we can to bring him to the Forefront and keep him

part of the national conversation about American baseball but also American Sports yet no doubt well said uh Michael

I want to thank you even though I'm I'm planning to go next year I haven't been there yet thank you for what you do in

preserving uh that history you know it's part of like you said Americana uh he's

in ICA not just you know we're talking about the United States but like you even mentioned even in Japan like

worldwide he's a a worldwide phenomenon and so uh to to think like you mentioned

and telling us you know how close that building was to to not existing now to

what I'm sure it's like uh today and and your hand in it uh uh is needs to be

recognized and I I you know my hat's off uh kudos to you uh for for what you do

and sharing uh some of those uh behind the scenes uh kind of stories that

obviously I I you know as much as I know there's obviously a lot I don't I look

forward to even learning more uh in person you know when I go there again

thanks brother yeah I'm I'm playing I'm playing I'm planning on it Michael but I

want you to give out where people can find out um you know where how if they can help

uh where you know how to find out more or or to come see uh uh at the Museum

itself give you have all the time you need to give out on anything I'm not I'm not gonna do too much it's pretty simple

but but know this that the museum uh if you come to Baltimore and a lot of a lot

of New Yorkers do you know when the Yankees come into town or if the Mets get in yeah whatever

um we are two blocks uh Northwest of Oreo Park at Camden Yards there is a

statue of Babe Ruth at Oreo park and if you stand at that statue you will see

um a baseball stenciled into the sidewalk nearby and and that's one of 60

baseballs 60 you understand that yeah um that connect you to

The Babe Ruth Museum 60 baseballs away yeah and uh so Follow The Baseballs and

come and visit us uh and see a really good baseball Museum dedicated to Babe

Ruth um if you want information about the museum and we do a lot of Social Media

stuff but go to baberuthmuseum.org our website and we do

a series John uh you remember Mel Allen we don't remember but you've heard of

Mel Allen yeah um I interviewed him I got to know him a little bit and he was a big Babe Ruth guy and hung out with

Babe Ruth for a lot of time but his uh signature statement was how about that

you know he did this week in baseball for years so we do a series uh we tell Sports

stories um mostly about local stuff um you know Orioles Ravens culture Babe

Ruth whatever it is um from the museum uh and we interview people and we say this is a another

Edition of how about that and they tell their story and uh so you can go on

um Facebook or YouTube to how about that and get all kind of uh really cool

stories uh that the museum has produced over over the past couple of years so

that's fun but but we're there and um you know we encourage people to get involved they'll be in touch with the

website uh talk to us you can get in touch with me through the website um become a member support the Legacy

you know without without fans support this thing doesn't happen you know it's

it's active and ongoing every day you can't not pay attention to it or it will

dry up and go away like anything else Yankee Stadium probably someday will not exist unless everybody remains

yeah that's the thing that you know it's it's not there's there's upkeep there's bills out to be paid things have to be

taken care of it's like a house right you gotta you know things things sometimes go again you got to pay

attention we need Advocates we need supporters we need we need to uh you

know the John Newman's of the world out there uh helping to promote us and we appreciate um your time tonight Johnny it's been

terrific so thank you I brought you under the museum yeah it's on the agenda for for for next year you know I'll be

disappointed in myself if I don't make it happen I'll put some of that information uh you said in the show

notes of this episode so anyone listening if you didn't catch it uh go to the show notes it's all there click

on it it'll redirect you to to where you need to be Michael a sincere thank you

thank you for sharing some of your insights uh stuff that I'm sure uh I

didn't know and I'm sure a lot of people out there listening found very interesting and intriguing and look

forward to seeing uh those thousands of items you you mentioned in person and

meeting you in person of course as well all right bud all right thanks John

thank you take care

English (auto-generated)

Ep.210 w/ Michael Gibbons of the Babe Ruth Birthplace & Museum

Michael Gibbons

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