Horacio Ruiz is multi-talented, he's the Podcaster for Alt, writes for Sports Card Daily & Hobby News Daily. He's also a vintage collector. We tackle all that & chop up some hobby topics as well on this episode.
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Horacio Ruiz is multi-talented, he's the Podcaster for Alt, writes for Sports Card Daily & Hobby News Daily. He's also a vintage collector. We tackle all that & chop up some hobby topics as well on this episode.
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Real happy to have the next gentleman on this card shop guest slide. He's a writer, a content creator in his own right. He does the all podcast. He writes for sports collectors daily and he's one of the newest members of Danny Blacks,
- It's a sweatshirt that I'm sort of helping them with,
and that's a Happy News Daily.
Without further ado, welcome, Harytio Ruiz.
John, thank you for having me, man.
What an intro, man.
That was great.
Glad to come on, and talked to him.
And we're talking a little bit before,
we started the recording and what a great story you're talking about,
and you got some great stories, I'm sure.
- Yeah, I've been fortunate.
I did, I actually did a couple shows some months back,
where I kind of shared about 10 stories of different things
that have happened with sports.
You know, I was one win away from the Lily World Series,
and Jason Veratex team actually beat us,
and he hit a home run off me.
I was the losing pitcher in the game.
I know I told you the CRSC's to stride the story,
where he came over my house, he ate some dinner with us,
and we got him back to the hotel, gave me a bat,
years later, headed sign.
I got the bat and catched down in Frank.
I've been very, I guess very blessed to have
some of those great stories.
I've seen a lot of them seem to revolve around baseball,
and it's fun to kind of share those.
But you're in the gas, so we're gonna talk about what you do.
Talk about your dad, I know you got young kids,
and I always say I'm just showing it's easy for me
I have a 23 year old.
So I used to code for our city sports,
and the podcast and sort of replace that when I stepped away from that.
But young kids, how do you balance what you do?
How do you advise content wise writing and being a dad,
a husband, and all that fun stuff?
How do you manage that, I guess?
- Yeah, that's a really good question.
And sometimes I should stop and wonder,
ask myself the same thing,
because I don't know what there's such thing as balancing
is just kind of getting through,
you know, taking a day by day.
But I will say like one of the biggest things
whether it's writing or getting a podcast done is,
and it goes back to what they taught us when we were younger.
I mean, high school is like time management, right?
It's something that you really learn when you are in college,
and maybe that's probably like one of the biggest skills
I learned in college.
After that, first semester of freshman year,
you kind of realize I need to do a better job
of studying, of going about early and being a responsible student.
And so I kind of carried that into,
into, you know, and so adulthood for the most part,
for the most part.
So what that means is like, what that might look like
is my oldest son, 97 years old,
but he's really getting into hockey.
So we're going to the rank and he's doing his little practices.
And he's got some games.
And so what I'll do is I'll bring my laptop, for example.
And during the practice, I will be sit down
and do some brainstorming or some writing,
or some brainstorming, and then I'll shut it down and watch him play.
So that way I'm not misdemeating him playing and seeing him,
doing what he enjoys doing.
So it's a great question.
Luckily, I have to give 100% credit to my wife as well,
without a great partner, without somebody there supporting you
and helping you out.
It wouldn't be possible.
And she's busy in her own right.
She also works.
But we make it happen.
If we got a departure ship and so same here,
my wife's not a hobby person.
And in my son's older, so that also helps.
But she's very supportive of things I do.
And that's always nice when you have that stability
And again, Kudos to you for sort of juggling those things
and making all that happen.
And you're excellent.
It's one thing to do it.
And then to be excellent at it on top of that.
So Kudos to you there.
I want to touch on-- and I know we talked like you said,
but before we hit record, last year's national
and next city was your first one.
I've only been to four or five.
So it's not like I'm a grizzled veteran.
But I remember my first one, which was in Chicago.
I think 2017.
I could be off a year.
But you know, talking about your experience
at the first one, kind of going in,
I'm sure people told you what it was going to be like.
Do this, here's what tips and all that.
But until you actually go and attend,
and kind of your perspective, your first national last year
in Atlantic City.
It was amazing.
I live on Stan Island.
So I'm about, I say, about two hours away from Atlantic City.
So I was amped the entire way driving down.
I was just going by myself and blasting the radio.
I remember I have these memories of just being like,
what did your national going to look like?
How am I going to react to a giant convention
of just trading cards, you know?
And I really enjoyed it.
Just even just entering the convention center,
striking up conversations with people,
a couple of guys just started talking,
what are you here for, here by yourself?
I'm looking at buy a couple things.
Oh yeah, I mean, they kind of shared with me
what they had already bought.
I think I went on the second day or the third day.
I think it was the third day.
So I was only there for a day because of,
other obligations that we talked about before.
But when I entered, man, it just smacks you in the face.
You know, it's how big it is.
And I kind of just stood still for a second.
I kind of walked in, looked at a couple of booths,
and then realized that I was going to have to walk around
for a little while to really soak it all in.
And there were a couple of things.
Before going, I was like, should I go get autographs
from the signings that they had?
Should I go check out the, you know,
all the different booths?
So I decided to just kind of take my time, check that out.
Well, it was out there, struck up some conversations
with different dealers, a couple of people kind of just think
I remember talking to, I don't know why, but Brian Kong,
he's the artist.
He had his own, his booth there, and we talked for a little while
and the gaming's card and I still have it.
And I want to commission something at some point.
You know, it's real cool that I got like him is doing that.
And then I also just remember the breaker side, right?
Which was kind of new and how and the crazy energy there and just kind
of walking through and feeling that.
And so I have a really fond memory of it.
I know a lot of people weren't too enthusiastic about it being
in an annex city.
You know, me not staying there.
I didn't really, that didn't matter to me, but the show
it was just amazing.
Yeah, you know, for me, I'm in Syracuse.
I'm a refugee from Brooklyn, New York,
but I'm now in Syracuse.
Anytime you can drive to the National, which I obviously did last year,
that's a nice perk to have.
And you know, the venue itself, like the convention center,
you know, I know that was your first one.
Some of the other ones are definitely tighter,
Ruiz, you're more elbow to elbow when people.
It's hard to get in front of a table to see all the stuff
that you know, dealers have available.
Atlantic City was more wide open.
So I like, you know, I know the city, you know,
doesn't have the greatest rap in the world.
It's got a bad rap in some of the areas around the convention center,
probably not where you'd look to buy a house.
If you were moving to Atlantic City, I'll just be polite and say it.
You know, that way.
But the venue itself, the convention center itself,
I felt like there's more breezeway.
It was, you didn't feel like you had to like box out,
like you were playing at basketball to get, you know,
in front of a showcase.
And that's always nice because in other,
some of the other ones, this, you know,
people will like the city banner and you have, you know,
like Chicago this year, you got events happening outside of the
nationals, forwarding events, you know, white socks,
called and other things.
And, but it's, it's definitely a tighter fit.
So that, you know, it's a trade off, I guess.
I, I like the fact that could drive when you drive obviously,
you can bring more stuff then if you're going on an airplane
where you're limited to how many bags you can bring and,
and all that fun stuff.
So I don't mind it.
I didn't mind it as, you know, as much as other people.
I've heard rumors that it probably won't be an Atlantic city
again. So that perk of getting to drive there might not happen
So you kind of enjoy it.
Well, you can win, you know, we don't know.
We don't know.
There's some new leadership with the national.
Maybe there will be one, you know, another one,
maybe not Atlantic city itself, but maybe another venue
where both can drive again wherever that may wind up being,
And so yeah, and it's funny.
You know, the first one, everyone tells you what to expect,
what it's going to be like, and then you get in there.
And it's even bigger than you envisioned in your own mind.
Like, if you kind of get robbed up for, you think you know,
from talking to people, here's what you do, who ratio.
And then you get in there and it's like,
"Wish, like you said."
And like, where do I start?
How do I, you know, especially when you're on a good
to be there a day, I want to try to cover as much ground as I can,
'cause I'm only here for today.
It can be a little overwhelming, but, you know,
it's fine, right?
It's, we circle it every year.
It's just something we'd like to do and go to.
And I call it the Super Bowl of the Hivey, right?
It's a week long event, almost like the Super Bowl is.
Everyone, you know, almost everybody from the Hivey is there
or tries to get there.
And it's much like the Super Bowl and it's fun times.
It's, you know, I've heard it called the family reunion
where you get to see friends and maybe meet someone
for the first time, maybe meet people again.
And, you know, hopefully I know we talk, maybe you can get
to Chicago and obviously meet up meet up there as well.
But it's a great, it's a great event.
And I think it's gonna be better and better as, you know,
It's become an event.
You used to be a giant card show and that was really become a major
Really, really taking a life of it.
So yeah, I really, you know, I enjoyed just the different parts of it.
Not just the cards, but like, you know, also way had different
auction houses had different, you know, game-news uniforms that had them on display,
like, a little mini museum area.
And then you got to see just everything from modern players, you know,
yawness jerseys to like older baseball players and kind of blank it on who
exactly was there.
Yeah, and we're from the early 20th century.
So that was cool.
And then, you know, people selling bats, you know, people selling different
magazines, different things that, you know, that you just don't see
on in a regular show, that's certain.
Most regular shows you see, you know, basically cards.
And then you might see a little bit of something else.
But here you had, you know, a little bit of everything.
So that was cool.
I kind of wish the one thing I wish is, you know, a couple of things like
to do it right, I feel like you should stay a couple of days.
At least two days to do it right, just to kind of get the fuel for it.
Would have loved to, you know, experience maybe you got to go to a couple of people at night
and, you know, just hang out and talk cards or whatever, you know.
So that's one thing.
And then the other thing is, it just struck me like the vendors were great, you know, always
willing to talk to you, you know, if you had a question, they would be willing to help you.
So that was, it was just a good time.
It was a good time.
And the third thing I checked, the more money to spend on certain things.
But yeah, I think we, I think we all checked.
That box to her, yeah, I always joke right anytime you're at a car show and there's big
rough guys with nice suits and a weapon you cannot see protected million dollar items.
You know, it's serious business.
Yeah, mental was there.
I was, I think that was the talk of, you know, it seemed like every, every natural to this, a sort
of a big headline, I think that was obviously last year.
See what this year will, will bring and always, always fun.
You're a vintage guy like myself.
And I get this question, it's hard to answer, right?
People ask, what's vintage?
Like what year?
Like what when is it stopped being vintage?
You know, I kind of used the 40 year rule.
I think if something's 40 years old, it's vintage.
But you know, at this point, it's 2023.
So based on that rule, 1983 card, you know, are vintage.
Now I do think that they are sort of vintage.
And some will argue, I don't think 83 types of baseball or what are folk is vintage.
So I'll ask you, right?
I always ask someone who's in the vintage like me, how do you define?
And there's no wrong answer here, right?
That's the beauty of this question.
People will argue with you.
But there really is no argument, it's a personal definition.
So you know, asking you what is vintage, what how do you answer that?
You know, not a year separate.
To me, vintage is always evolving.
So I guess that's the best way I could put it.
So like you said, 1983, you said that's 40 years without a doubt.
That's vintage, right?
It's something something has that much history.
And I guess, I don't label it this way.
But if people are uncomfortable with putting 83 in the same bucket as say 1910, 1906,
you know, these different years that were big for the for cards.
I mean, at that point you're talking about now we can label those antiques almost, right?
You've got antiques, you got vintage.
But I was thinking about this the day and I heard, I was listening to Nirvana on the radio.
And I realized that the song, the response like teen spirit, I don't know if it was that song.
It was if it was Nirvana.
And that song was 30 years old now.
30 years old.
So in our member vividly, this thing that has a kid and thinking how modern it is.
And it still sounds modern to me, right?
30 years old.
And then people do talk about it a lot.
But like in the year 2000, which I remember quite clearly as well, you know, 30 years ago was
1970 and 1970 compared to 2000 seems like ages ago.
And you know, with everything else went on the 70s.
And fast forward 30 years later.
And I'm kind of experiencing that same thing.
So as I'm relating it back to this, like, you know, vintage is always Nirvana's vintage now.
And what was once modern is eventually going to be vintage.
So I think anything that brings back memories, it's been around for a while and it kind of
has a different style.
You know, that qualifies to me.
It's a great answer.
Like I said, there's no wrong answer, but I do love your answer.
And I'm an older guy, I'm older than you.
So it's scary now using my own sort of 40 year old rural logic that it's scary.
Some of the stuff that would qualify as vintage with that rule, I've actually opened.
You know, I was around to open.
I like it's day of release.
You know what I mean?
Like, you know, you think about 65 cops.
I was born in '72.
So I didn't open that obviously when it was actually never opened.
It was the by that point.
It was to expense.
We're not readily available.
But now stuff using again, that's my age kicking in stuff that with that 40 year
rule being 50.
I'm like, I opened that the first day it hit the shelves.
And yeah, I might still consider it vintage.
Maybe I guess when someone says, how old are you John rather than tell him my exact day?
Which I'm not shy about.
I sort of, it is what it is.
I can't change.
So anyway, one way to stop getting old, I'm not a fan of that way.
So you know, I might just say, hey, I'm vintage and get a couple of last, you know, that way.
But you know, people get like fired up with that question.
Like, and we'll bait intensely and their own sort of rules.
And that's the beauty of the question is really, it's really up to you.
It doesn't change anything.
You know, even if you don't believe 83 tops is vintage, it's still 83 tops.
It still has Gwen and Bob Brookies in it.
That that just that equation is standard.
That doesn't change, right?
So, you know, two Hall of Famers right there.
So, you know, I think to debate, when people like really get it fired up about it, I don't really get entertained on that level.
Because it's, we shouldn't be happy, right?
We should not make it like, you know, I'm right in your own.
So, and there is no really, even someone who says it's 83 isn't, you know, what my fourth.
I'm not going to do that to you.
It isn't to me.
And we, you know, we can just, it's all right to disagree and still enjoy the hobby at the same time.
So, I don't get in the middle of the, well, I always like to ask somebody who is kind of
class, you know, is classifying as a vintage collector, how they define it.
Just to get sort of the different perspectives.
You know, yeah, go ahead.
Think about that.
I mean, you bring up the Gwen and Bob's and those are players that, you know,
kids right now, you know, 10, 11, 12 year old kids, they're coming up in the hobby.
But they have no clue about, right?
And they shouldn't be because, and so these are, these are cards now that you can use to kind
of help educate kids about the way to the game.
And at that point, you know, it's almost like, you know, the, you know, the big debate now
for me that I'm kind of in tune with, and I think it's pointless, but still like, who's
the girl LeBron James or Michael Jordan, right?
And listen, you know, I'm a Jordan guy just through and through.
The reason I love that.
I mean, I mean, Jordan.
But, you know, people say James and nine times out of 10, the people at Salem, Bronn, it's not
because they're that they're wrong.
I mean, that is there go.
But they may be also didn't see Jordan play.
So they just weren't around to see the greatness, right?
Like, what how great he truly was and it's something where you have to educate them and
be like, well, just, just look at the highlights.
Let's talk about what this man of cop and how he did it.
So, you know, like I said, every, every era, every generation has their, their, their thing.
And it's always important though to like look, look a few years back and acknowledge that, you
know, there are some great players that came before them.
Yeah, no doubt.
And we are seeing, you know, one thing I, you know, as a deal, I still set up a show as, as a
deal, I still go to shows as a, as a consumer, obviously, too.
I'm seeing, and this always warns my heart, her ratio.
I'm starting to see a lot more younger kids in the hobby.
Actually, start to learn about the history, not just the hobby, but the history of sports and some
of the players, they weren't around yet to see their, they're taking an interest.
They're going back and finding out, you know, the incredible hitter, when was and the fact
he rarely struck out and all the, you know, the crazy stats, if, you know, he went over 300.
He'd still, you know, if he came back and went over 300.
He still have a lifetime batting average of over 300.
And all those crazy stats, you know, Maddox rarely walk in someone or you would have in three
two counts on people.
You're starting to see a lot of young kids, young adults, even that weren't around yet to,
to find that stuff out and sort of collect those players and learn more about them.
I always, I always love seeing that like you, I'm in old 80s, 90s, basketball fan, I was
more fan of the NBA than today, you know, I'm a Jordan in that debate.
I'm team Jordan, I'm that side of the out, you know, I always like to just point out, there was
no load management in the 80s in the 90s, right?
You got guys playing with the flu being sick, a little broken bones here and there that
you don't necessarily see as much today.
It's just compared, you know, game changes and the players change, but I'm old school to the
I will admit it.
And those guys, you know, you hear those guys talk, even today, bothers them, right?
You hear Jordan says, you know, hey, I know people are traveling all over to come see me play
if I can get out there.
So I got to flu, right?
I can sleep after the game go over, go back to my hotel and crash, but for that kid who's
coming to see me, I almost owe it to him, right?
And we don't see that in the same vein as much in today's, and it bothers me a little bit.
And I can do about it, but it's still, I'm glad I got the watch those players ahead that
sort of mentality no days off.
That's what the off season is about.
But you know, it is what it isn't like you said.
Someone who didn't grow up with Jordan, they don't realize that.
Even even though the last dance highlighted a lot of stuff and so many people watched that, it's
one thing to watch that and it's one thing like me and you, we saw that lie almost every
And even watching the show doesn't do the same justice as seeing it in real time.
And so I get it, I don't get into debates.
I just kind of fall on that side of the island.
And I was a bigger basketball fan back in the hay day.
But still a great sport.
We know what it, hobby wise, it's still right up there.
Probably one or two as far as what people collected.
So I don't, I don't, I just merchant.
Still a great sport.
So I'll ask you this to be an advantage guy.
It's a question I get to.
Someone who's kind of maybe not new to have you.
But hey, I want to start collecting more vintage stuff.
What your advice to someone says, hey, I'm not necessarily new to the hobby.
I sort of want a back track.
What advice, what kind of advice do you give in those kind of situation?
I mean, the only advice I can give right is kind of what I did when it came to vintage.
And number one, I'm going to be 100% transparent was what I could afford.
And then number two was what I liked, like visually like.
And that's kind of where I started.
So the very, you know, believe it or not, the first card that I really, the first series that I
really fell in love with was the 1933 Gaudi Indian Gum series.
And because they were cheap, I could get these cards for, you know, in some case, five
six bucks, you know, for nicer, nicer condition ones, you know, 2025 bucks.
And the colors popped.
I mean, if you've ever seen the 1933 Gaudi baseball cards, you kind of understand what I'm
talking about, right, like the colors just popped.
And so that's where I started collecting.
And then on top of that, the cards were very sort of informational now that there's some,
I stopped collecting the series because there are some things that are, you know, some of
some of the stuff wasn't, you know, the way that they're describing some of the tribes and
things like that.
I kind of got a little uncomfortable with.
Doesn't take away from the beauty of the cards or the historic part of it.
It's a depiction of native life, the depiction of people that they used to live here.
And so that also kind of attracted me to it.
And it's funny.
In some ways, in some ways, the cards were very revered to people.
And then in some other cards, it was funny what they were writing in the bag.
It was just a completely like a race, is then everything.
So it was just like, yeah, just a weird funky set, you know.
So the advice I would give is that, you know, you don't have to go in with a thousand dollars,
two thousand dollars to collect, just the beauty of it.
In fact, you know, that's 33.
You could, you know, 1950s, 1960s.
You see all these, you know, stale threads, whatever you want to buy is there for a couple
If you, if you're willing, enjoy it.
Now another big part of it is also nostalgia.
So like, you know, vintage is is changing vintage, you know, like I said, is evolving.
So to me, the toys that I've been playing with and just kind of taking away from the cards,
just for a second, like to me, the teenage me Ninja Turtles and the Jai Joues that I play with
when I was seven, eight, you know, they're dear to me.
I don't have them anymore.
But when I take, when I see them somewhere and have an opportunity to maybe scoop up a couple,
they're in a good shape, I'll do that because they mean something to me.
They remind me of how to it.
And I'm not letting that go very easily, right?
I mean, I want to, I treasure that.
It's just something that reminds me of me as a kid and I have three boys and, you know, I hope
that somehow, you know, we can recreate those memories with them with different things,
different toys of this era.
So that's also a big component of it is, you know, the me was, you get in cheaply with
vintage and then the other component of that was, you know, what?
And I'm also going to collect things that that means something to me that remind me of when
I was a kid or things that I'm not going to let go and just flip for a profit.
So yeah, more than dollar science, right?
More definitely more than dollar science, right?
You know, the old adage is right, you know, what your collection, right?
Collect stuff where if everything just crashed to zero value, you still be happy owning it,
You're sort of a minimize that with how you, what you say, how you collect and then the
stouture and stuff that means brings you back to a day.
We can't really go back unfortunately.
It doesn't work like that, right?
So the next best thing is stuff like that to reminisce and kind of at least in our mind, go
back to it like you said, with your your own boys, like, hey, this one, you know, when
your dad was your age, this was like the big thing and sort of, you know, build those
bides in those conversations and that sort of thing and then they'll be doing the same as they
become adults, right?
And that's always, you can't put a price on that stuff and you really shouldn't put a price
on that stuff.
And I love when people talk about it because I'm the same way, you know, I do have expensive
card with some of those 10, 15, 20 dollar purchases.
I have even more of a story, truthfully, attached to them than maybe some of the more expensive
stuff that I may, you know, oh, oh, whether it be part of my show inventory or even part
of my PC, right?
And it's important you said that and I appreciate that.
And you know, we've seen, we've seen the market sort of reset.
We've seen prices come down even on bigger ticket items.
You know, that crescendo, that boom, that was, right?
That's come down now.
I mean, the pandemic's not over per se, but it's sort of post pandemic here.
We've seen stuff for last and come down.
It's a great opportunity, even to get, you know, there were some stuff that, you know, during
that crescendo that really became out of reach for folks.
Myself included, then now you look at it and it's back in sort of a reasonable range where
if you wanted to save a few bucks and say, hey, you know, a year and a half ago, I wouldn't
even search that on an auction site or selling platform because I knew I wasn't in the
market for it.
Now times are a little bit different now.
I might be able to pull the trigger on a purchase like that and look at it and maybe shop for
some deals and see to get the best deal you can.
That's always, you know, when people always say, oh, man, you know, prices are way down,
you know, and I'm a seller too.
I get it.
But there's a positive in that.
I've bought stuff recently that prior, I wouldn't even look for, right?
There's not going to, you know, so you got it.
There's a silver lining in every scenario and, you know, as a dealer, I go what the market
where the market's at and that's the way it is.
It was a nice year and a half run.
Let's, you know, to be 100% transparent, but, you know, everything, you know, all good things
come to an end.
And it's not even good.
It's still good things, right?
It's just a different scenario.
And I think, I think it's better.
I think it's made to have more affordable again for more people, you know, and we still have
our high end as, as you well know for those people who, you know, play in that space and
then not wrong with that, right?
They don't have to apologize for it.
And we don't have to feel bad.
But I like, you know, this is the time and a hobby where you can still find some great deals.
And again, things may, you know, things go up and down.
That's economics 101.
And so some of the fun is buying stuff now that you kind of feel like, hey, I want to ask, but I also
feel like it's kind of a double edge job, right?
I also feel like this is going to go up again at some point whenever that might not be tomorrow
or next year, but maybe in a couple years, but it's a great opportunity to get it now.
And even if it doesn't do that, even if it's not, I still enjoy it.
I still want to own it.
It's in my, it's in my collection either way.
And, you know, that's the great.
So whenever I hear people kind of complaining about where the market's at, I always try to point
out, there's, there's classes of minuses to everything, right?
Even during a crescendo, right?
There are some people that we all like.
Most, a lot of people like to, but some people got sort of turned off and maybe left too.
Like, now I just, I can't.
So, you know, there's always pros and cons and you just kind of adapt and go with the flow and,
you know, 10 of your thoughts on where the market is now, too, especially vintage, what?
You know, I kind of want to, you mentioned being a dealer and I think one of the other things about
the vintage is another piece of advice I've given is, because I've done it recently is go to local
car shows because the connections that you make there are unbelievable, like, you know, people
looking for deals, you know, you go on eBay, you know, send out offers or you're stalking
and sort of like this auction.
But you'll often find that if you can make some connections within your community, you know,
my going to local car show, you get some great deals from guys, you know, once you kind of
know them, you're buying from them regularly, very generous, you know.
So that's one of those things.
And I'm noticing that as the market has kind of, you know, kind of, kind of relaxed a little bit
I guess you could say.
So, there's a local car show here on standout and once a month, it's like, sparsely attended,
you know, but these guys are there because they love the cars, they love the workshop.
And I make it a point once a month to show up and, you know, spend a couple bucks
there and, you know, and they love, you know, having people there and just talking to and being
able to sell some cars and move some inventory.
And that's why I've gotten some really good deals from them just because, you know, they know
me and, and that's, that's one way to maybe potentially build a vintage set, you know, from a
vintage car deal.
They might have some stuff.
As far as the market, yeah, I agree.
I mean, everyone sees where we're in a weird time right now.
We talk about, you know, whether or not still we're officially having hit a recession, whether
we're in a recession, without a doubt there is inflation, things are, are, are, are parking
up just everyday items.
But then you see numbers like the unemployment numbers kind of going up or the number of jobs
being added and going up.
And I think that that, that we have to pay attention to the, I guess, a broader market, not be an
expert in the, in the economics because I'm far from it.
But, you know, if you pay attention to those markers, really, you know, every other market
is going to follow, follow suit, right?
So, I think everyone's being very careful right now.
I guess that's the best way to put it in.
And, you know, I think that some people that would typically be sellers or maybe, or let's
say buyers or maybe waiting a little longer because they think that, you know, maybe I could,
I could save a couple bucks on these cards.
And people that are trying to just make sure that they're liquid, a little more liquid, have
They're probably looking to sell right now as well because, you know, hey, what if the prices
And there's always that, that you for you that was here in the space about a year and a
half ago is definitely gone.
And so people need to really start thinking about, you know, about that.
But in terms of the hobby, right, in terms of collecting, listen, if you're not over-leverage,
if you have disposable income that you can spend on some cards without, you know, getting
kicked out of your home or without, you know, you're still going to eat it now, you're going
to provide for your family.
I think that's still alive and well, right?
Like I think that the collectors are electobious and joy getting things.
It's just a matter of really, you know, not getting carried away.
Yeah, being smart, right?
I did one of the, you know, to me, the one of the bad things about that boom period, we're
talking about that one and a half years that we sort of kind of all agree on was the bad
part of it was you didn't, and I hate to say like this, and I don't mean any, you know,
disrespect and anyone.
You didn't have to be the brightest hobbyist to sort of make money.
It was sort of like the minus touch, right?
No, I'm just in general, right?
I myself included, right?
Everything seemed to be going up to three, four, even more times.
New whack, you could buy it, you know, when the first come out and in three days, it was
going to be double or triple or maybe even more than that.
It was just real easy.
Long as you could get it, you were going to make money on it.
What we're seeing now is now, you know, if that's your MO, that's what you're, it's not
You got to do your homework.
You got to do your research.
And I think it, it, I think that's a good thing, right?
I think that's a good thing.
So like you said, you're just in the hobby because you solely 100% enjoyment.
It's a great time.
The stuff is more affordable.
If you're in there, you're in the quick buck guy and not maybe in it for the long haul.
Now you got to do a little more homework and sort of earn your paycheck, so to speak.
So it's sort of leveled to playing field, I say.
And I don't think there's, I think that's a good thing.
I mean, some other people might say, man, I like it.
It was just easy to, you know, quadruple my money.
Sure, I think we all would agree with that.
But that's, you know, people been in a hobby a long time.
New that wasn't going to state like that, too.
So I think it's just part for the course and, you know, people think I'm nuts, but I,
I like it now, you know, the, the boom listen, I've made money doing shows when, when
shows kind of came back and I was a better factor.
I would, I'm not trying to, you know, buy the hand that feeds me so speak.
But I like both aspects because I'm, like, I'm not going to be in a hobby no matter what, right?
I'm going to enjoy the hobby, whether it's booming or it's kind of settled down to what
we know now now, adapt to each scenario.
So I'm going to, not as it's going to be in it for the long haul, probably wouldn't necessarily
So you just got to go with the flow of depth and like you said, I think it's perfect.
Right when it comes to your own hobby, right?
I have stuff that, you know, if it's worth money, great, but even if everything went to zero count,
right, you still enjoy having only that piece of, you know, cardboard, chrome or memory
bill, whatever whatever it may be.
And I think if you, if you fit that bill, I think you'll be happy in either scenario, right?
And I kind of, that's where I, I don't want to speak for you when I think you do as well.
So for those folks, you know, right now is okay too.
For some others might not agree exactly the same, but that's, that's where we're at.
I want to talk about another aspect that I've started to dabble in.
It's, it's gotten harder to acquire these because more people are starting to look at them
in biome and that's, it's tickets, right?
And I love, I'm really sort of love tickets, right?
Because, you know, I'm a little bit older than you, but I'm, you're, you're from a general
same type here, right?
When we would go to a sporting event, Horace, you're right.
The ticket was just the divestable to get through that turn style, to get into the sporting
event or concert or whatever it is we were attending, right?
And find our seat, where did that ticket go?
We might crawl up, put it in our pocket for the night.
And then when we get home, what happens?
It games over shows over, might work, work its way into the trash.
But we've seen the rise of tickets.
And I've said on this show, like tickets are, I think, in a way more rarer than certain cards
because at the time, we weren't viewed as collectibles in the same way, cards were.
I mean, even back in the 50s and 60s, cards were rubber bands thrown around, put in bikes
folks, but they still had a trading aspect to them.
They kids traded them and collected them.
They wanted to get all the favorite team, the favorite player.
Take no one was really keeping tickets.
Maybe they had a box they threw it in, but kind of forgotten.
So very little tickets survive in comparison to cards.
And I think you're seeing people sort of go to that.
Maybe they have all the cards of a certain player, the run.
And now they're like, you know, I'll just use Ted Williams, damn stuff to tell me.
So I have every Ted Williams top card that they made.
But now I still want to have Ted Williams first game ticket.
I want to have Ted Williams, you know, 400th home run game ticket.
Now it's going to cost you.
But it did become collectibles.
Like they never have been before.
We're seeing obviously they're graded PSAs.
Been grading them for a while now.
Back in just announced there, going to start grading them as well.
They've become collectible asset, much like the cards.
And some people sort of pivoted from cards to tickets or do both at the same same time.
And you know, I'm a Jackie Robinson guy being a Brooklyn kid and, you know, trying to even acquire.
You know, a ticket to a game with all the Jackie Robinson is difficult because they're bringing in.
You know, quite a bit of money as they should as they should, right?
I'm not, you know, someone asked me what would your dream ticket be?
And as obviously would be Jackie Robinson's debut as a major league baseball player.
Unless I win the power ball or the mega millions, I'll never own that, right?
But Joe, we see always dream, right?
We've seen tickets really rise in stature.
I think they, you know, they always were sort of under the current quiet.
But now I think they've really starting to make a lot more noise and you're seeing, you know, the last national.
I don't know if you saw I know you're there for the day.
But I saw two or three set ups that that's all they were sitting now.
That's all they had was ticket.
Darren Revau, that's his set up is all tickets.
He's got some crazy stuff.
Tickets to the Titanic.
It got you.
And it's like this is always concert tickets are our huge thing.
Just, you know, from what you do with all and just in the hobby, sort of your take on,
on where the ticket market is and sort of the quick rise.
So so quick that I thought I was getting in a little early and it was almost too late, even then.
So to sure take on tickets.
Yeah, I mean, my take, you know, initially I was pretty, I'm, I mean, a pretty dismissive of it.
You know, in terms of, you know, what value do the tickets have?
I mean, how many of them are there?
But you know, when you talk about, and there's always a bug, right?
When you talk about Jackie Robinson's debut, you're not talking about a ticket anymore.
You're talking about American history, right?
You know, when you're talking about, you know, a stored boxing matches or where you talk about even
the Titanic, again, that's world history.
There's no disputing those are artifacts that have our tremendously valuable.
So, and I mentioned this, I was, I talked to Danny on Danny's podcast at the National.
And I was there looking for cards full-pocket, you know, vintage football cards, vintage
based book cards, building a couple sets, solely in the I came upon two tickets from the
1986 World Series.
You know, you, you're not both the fans.
And I saw a game six and game seven tickets.
And I couldn't resist now.
I only, I thought, nothing crazy happened in game six.
I don't know why.
I don't know why.
I don't know.
I mean, I'm sure, I don't know how much they ought to somebody.
86, you know, the, you know, the, you know, moaky Wilson and the Buckner boy.
You know, that, that, that meant for dead.
That meant for dead.
And this, really, a miracle.
I saw the documentary at the Had on ESPN.
I don't know if you've got to watch that.
And so, you know, in 86, I'll three years old, right?
So I had no idea that they were down to the last strike with nobody on base, down by two,
two, three runs, I don't know.
But it's a miracle that they won that game.
So I bought the ticket, but I also, it wasn't just because it was just, you know,
for me as a meds fan, it had a meaning.
I literally like, when I, I held the ticket, right?
Because I was like, I'm not going to get, I'm not going to buy a ticket.
Am I actually going to do this?
When I held the ticket, I told him, I got like a little shiver.
Because it's like me in 86, I wasn't even in the United States.
I wasn't even in the United States.
This was like a way for me to almost connect to that moment.
And I, I'm not, it sounds weird.
It sounds crazy.
And it's that.
I was like, I have to buy this ticket.
And so I've looked at them.
I've looked at it differently.
I, I would like to buy a couple of tickets for me, the way I'm approach.
I would approach it or I'm going to approach it is games or teams ahead,
meeting to me.
That group watching, you know, some of them, we talk some
Martin's teams even, you know, some meds teams, some players that I really
grew up with one of my favorite players of all time.
He's not on meds, don't throw will this, you know?
Um, and that season at the morning's had about 20 years ago now or 15 years ago.
Um, something like that is something that I, I'd look to kind of buy just because of what
it means to me.
Um, that's what, so that's where I'm at with tickets.
It is a connection.
Whether you were there or not, just as a fan of that team that player that
moment, even the moment itself, right?
And I, I see not many those tickets survive, right?
Like people who walked out of game sick who, you know, like you said,
the meds were dead, people were crying.
I was 14 and I thought it was, I thought it was over and I was a ball player, right?
And I was suddenly all know what happens.
You know, you know, and, but people didn't keep, like, you know,
maybe someone went home through it and like a box or something for
God, but no one, you know, everyone that was a static as a meds fan,
I didn't keep your ticket thinking some day that's going to, we're just happy,
you know, those that were there just have a hey, we're surviving another day.
We could still win the world series, right?
No one was thinking about the ticket in years later.
Like, you know, 35,000 people, I would probably venture a safe gas 85% of those
tickets didn't survive.
They're in landfills and long gone 37 years later now, right?
And so that was tickets to me.
That's why I go with the whole.
I think tickets and sub-sets is in many levels are harder to find than,
Because think of number one is a set mount produced, right, for for the people who
attended the game.
Many people just threw them out, crumpled them up and think how many
didn't even survive the week or the night.
You know, people weren't even, you know, people might beat up their
cards, but they were kind of keeping them, right?
Tickets were a whole different view as a long term, like,
You know, really nice.
That the one and the one thing I thought about was the tickets have a
little bit of a selection and a rope in them.
If you go back, you know, to say a specific moment in time,
hypothetically speaking, you know where that ticket came from in that moment, right,
or in that during the game.
So, you know, I could look back and you know, I haven't done it.
I haven't done it.
I could look back and see where that ticket was in Shade stadium.
In that moment.
And then I could maybe even look at some old highlight reels and kind of.
See, see, that person, for the general area, it's crazy.
I think it's a, I started to try to get into it.
It's stuff's going a little bit more than I anticipated or hope where I've sort of
not got a lot.
Yeah, but I still look.
It's still in my search thing and you never know, right?
You just got to come to you never know what you're finding unless you look.
And I think it's sort of, it's fun.
It's even fun to hunt and search right to journey to try to acquire it and
not to own that game six ticket, right?
You can always look at it and just think, you know, of what it meant to the
Met set that point, right?
You know, they were on the ropes and pretty much about it.
The, the, the, the, be counted out and we don't know what happened.
And, you know, Reds, Oxford's aren't fine to vet ticket or that moment.
But, you know, they got, they got their worlds here.
Title's later on.
So I don't know if you're right.
I won't cry for too much, but for Met's fan, right?
It was 69 and even that was not supposed to really happen.
So this very significant, you know, connection value even in
Trinsically, with something like that.
And I think it's a, it's a great thing.
Speaking of maths, what's kind of clothes on that note, you know,
we both grew up with the, with the will pan error where they really were very
cheap and then didn't sign people and made it by some bad moves and had to
get a good one.
Yeah, and we're trying to put it on the one hand.
They weren't people with Bobby, Tonya.
Yeah, no, it's still paying them.
That guy doesn't have to ever work again.
You know, and that, we can talk about, we can do a whole show and, and the Bobby
beneath the deal.
And, but you know, I remember one year, you know, he's not that far along
to go, I looked at the line of kind of like, this is, I'm in
I'm like, we have a better trip away team here than the maths have on the major league
Those days, thankfully, our over I wasn't sure they ever would end.
It was tough being a met's fan during the will pan error.
I don't, I don't like to dislike people heavily, but, you know, the will pan's, you know,
pictures made it under my dart board on more than one occasion.
Now, we have the co-in error when night and day as you well know.
And, you know, it's nice refreshing to know that, you know, he wants to bring a
world series back to city field and to the Queen's and we'll do everything in
his power and we'll open up his checkbook to make it happen.
I like that.
Your thoughts, you know, just your general feelings from the will pan's to the
co-in error and being a met's fan, you know, you're outlook for 20, 23.
Yeah, I mean, it's such a big, I mean, it's like a
rags to riches.
I mean, as a met's fan, right?
You went from having potentially, you know, one of the bottom five ownership groups and MLB
to now having one of the top two or three owners and MLB, you know, arguably the top owner.
I mean, you could say, you know, he maybe doesn't have any.
And you're being, listen, I'm going to, I mean, you're being generous.
We're saying bottom five.
I'm going to say, but, you know, we're ranking during that type of year.
Like owners, I would want to own the met.
I mean, the will pan's would have been my last, you know, I would have been last.
I would have took anybody else, you know, at that point.
So for this, the only the only competitor, maybe, and this me growing up in Miami was that
Martin's ownership and, oh, my God, whatever, what a fire.
And they're all the other fires.
So, but just just the whole situation there is crazy.
I could talk for hours about that.
But yeah, okay, bottom one or two, okay, the barn is, the bottom of the
I mean, I could give you a run for the money.
But yeah, what a story.
I mean, listen, I'm as optimistic as they come.
I think last year's team was amazing.
I mean, they made the city, you know, the met, the met's worth the team.
Even even with Aaron judge and the things that he did last year, which were amazing.
I'm not taking away from that.
The met's were clearly the team that that really, you know, that captured New York there for a while.
The problem is, you know, they've fizzled out in the playoffs.
You know, the run came to an end.
They still have an amazing lineup.
They signed, they they re signed Nemo, which I think was great.
They got, they got work in there now.
The only thing I will say, and it's kind of for me, and it was was like, I don't know how to feel about it yet.
Losing the grum, okay, was, and I get it.
Like he's, you know, he's injury prone.
Maybe they weren't giving the money.
The Rangers were going to give him.
And I wouldn't blame him for leaving.
But it almost had this feeling of, I don't know, the guy should have been a met for life.
And you know, and yeah, it's like the legacy was more important to me than even a championship of sorts.
I know that sounds crazy, but like the grum, you know, I know where you're coming from.
I'm a big degrom guy to this day.
I don't wish him any help.
Like you just said, I rather be a met than a Ranger that just didn't work out.
I think so many injuries, you know, I don't want to speak for the co-ins or the front office brass.
I think some injuries and what he was going to command and what he eventually got from the Ranger that don't think the met's wanted to go there.
You know, they said they wanted them, but there is, you know, every front office has to determine where's the point where we say we can't do that and then have to look at a different direction.
And that's where I will say this.
I mean, you lose the ground that stinks.
I like you.
I have a lot of nice to grab stuff.
I was hoping he'd be a met for life.
I echo that sentiment, but I just think they asking price in what they kind of saw coming.
Didn't match their view and they, you know, then they went out and signed Virlander who's, you know, he said his own issues here and there, but I think they're more confident that he's going to probably play more.
We've even seen, you know, I mean, it's early.
We've seen some issues in spring training with the ground like not going or taking a few days off.
So I think that, you know, in Cohen's quest for the world series, he had to make a tough call. He knew it would be, he would be, it would be tough.
And, but I take he tell you, you know, it's in the spirit of trying to bring a world series to, you know, he tell you, listen, we, we negotiated with him.
There was a number we offered that we thought was fair. He got more and he, you know, he decided to go.
We wish him, well, that's kind of how I feel too like I wish he, he was still there, but, you know, if you, you know, he asked me, we're all serious title or, you know, out in the playoffs with the ground.
I'm not pinning at all on one guy and say that would be the reason.
I'm going to, in the quest for world series, I'm going to, I'm going to just have faith that, you know, I'd be a little more disappointed if they lost the ground and didn't sign, you know, Verlander or,
yes, we sang or do stuff that, you know, then I'd be like, what are we doing? So I'm going to, I'm going to trust the process is the cliche goes and it's nice listen.
That's a good problem to have, right? You know, if you think back again, I think up the will find days, those were problems we didn't, we had worse problems where we just didn't sign anybody.
And anybody or just kept the wrong guy for bad contracts and not just Bobby Beneet, that's just the biggest one we talk about. So I feel like, yeah, they've really bolstered the middle of the middle of the rotation, they posted middle relief.
Everyone deas looks like the closer they thought they were getting when they initially did the Kellynick trade. The first year was rough and I remember saying, man, I want Kellynick back and just what you get.
And now it's looking a little bit a lot and a little bit a lot better. So I'm confident, you know, I did a kind of a major league baseball preview show.
I was a home right picked a match the win the division and that sort of thing. So we'll see again, I think they're going to be, I don't like to claim world series before they happen, but and I would never do that, especially with you know with the match, but they got the pieces in place, right?
And that's the say that has a match fan right how many years we've run even close to that. So to me, I'm going in optimistic, I was kind of hoping for one more outfield or one more kind of a bigger thing.
I like Brandon Nemo, I think he's getting paid more than his value, but the outfield free agency was not very strong and I think they got scared like if they lost Nemo, they're outford would be even in worse shape.
So if there's a weak spot, I think it might they could use another outfield, what I liked that they didn't do what they used to do in years past is as you well know, the Shraday minor leagueers away their prospects.
We still have one of the best prospects system in the game. I'm blessed here in Syracuse to see it up close and personal many, I love two miles from the stadium, I could almost walk there.
And we got a lot of prospects, Mauricio, Alvarez, Parada, Vrientos, and the cover is not bare like it used to be. I'm excited as a med fan, I figure you're feeling the same way.
We know we're competing for championship and again after many years of that not even that being a pipe dream. The old days of the will partner, we're just trying to sneak in the back door for like a wild card spot.
No, and that even if we got in, we weren't going to do much damage, but at least we got a couple extra extra games right now it's a different sort of feel and you know just kind of your closing thoughts with the meds.
I'm assuming you probably feel very similar. Yeah, I mean we're on par. I mean there's a couple of great teams in the NL, you know,
the paucas are getting to a tease back, you know, the dog is going to be the dog. They're spending just like not just like the meds and nobody's spending like the meds.
But I mean that's the point, right? Like you feel like you feel you're with the big boys now and you're not just catching lightning in a bottle like we have in the past.
You're building towards something and then I'll also say like adding a you know perfect like an actual manager like buck show water.
I got that. That can't be a good one. Yeah, that's a huge difference hiring a couple.
Yeah, you know, we've had some good ones. I mean, this respect like Bobby Valentine, Art Howl those are those guys are very well-aspected.
But I will say buck show water is kind of a little bit of a box above that.
Yeah, as a pedigree is more there than some previous incarnations of managers. And that's nice too. No one you got to guy at the helmet.
It's nothing he really hasn't seen. He's not going to be overwhelmed in the moment. He's not, you know, no players are bigger than him.
You know, that was some of the, you know, previous manager I felt like the players kind of ruled the boost and he couldn't, you know,
it's hard being a young kind of new manager and real people in like your voice is your voice getting hurt.
Showwalker, you know, calls the shots and I think even with Cohen even though Cohen owns it.
I, you know, I'm pretty sure showwalker says, hey, you know, you get the ingredients.
But let me, let me cook the soup right. You know, get the part cells, the old boat, build part cells line, right?
Yeah, you hired me as a manager. Let me, let me do what I'm supposed to do. I appreciate you get me the pieces. I'm not in, you know, being on grateful, but let me do my job and I think Cohen's a type that let's do that as well.
So it's, it's nice to be optimistic going into a met season after many years of like, oh well, and you know, let's see what happens and kind of know and how the movie ends because we've seen it sort of before.
So, you know, it's good. Well, Horatio awesome coming coming in, you're coming on man and we get to talk mad, we get to talk hobby and all that.
Give that where people can find what you do and read your stuff, see here, yeah, take your time, give out all that stuff you'd like to share.
Yeah, thanks John. Thanks for having me on man. I really appreciate it. I had a lot of fun man just talking and you know, the hobby talking about sports.
Yeah, you know, so I do a podcast with the alt's alt's.co. We kind of talk about alternative investments there. Just had a pretty interesting podcast with CEO who invests in athletes and you invest and you get a portion of their future contracts, right?
So I think that that was a cool one I just did. And I write a couple of articles a month for sports collectors daily. I really love doing that. Really kind of that's kind of where I pour a lot of my energy into as far as, you know, come out with some quality content and I'm looking forward to doing the same thing with hobby news daily with Danny.
I'm really a part of what was there. I know that the big launch is going to come up April 1st. And so I'm looking forward to contribute to that as well. And just I love writing. I love kind of in reviewing people as well and learning more because I get to learn more about the hobby that way.
And I get to meet connections that way as well. So that's kind of what I'm doing right now.
Keep it up man. Great stuff and hopefully you know obviously we'll have you back on and if the meds win the world series will have to do like a celebratory podcast. I don't know how many other people like it, but we'll have fun.
Maybe we'll be at the game and we won't have to buy you know we won't have to buy the kids.
Yeah, no doubt sounds good to me. So thanks for ratio. I appreciate it. Man, be well. Take care.
John, thanks. Thank you.
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Sam Shuford is just 22 years old but the University of South Carolina graduate is wise beyond her years, she is passionate and wants all to enjoy the hobby she loves, her show "Women of the Hobby" highlights women but …
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