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Aug. 22, 2021

Hobby Quick Hits Ep.78 Topps/Fanatics Fallout(New Details)

Hobby Quick Hits Ep.78 Topps/Fanatics Fallout(New Details)

The news that rocked and shocked the hobby world, we dive into specific details including some new ones that just came out, is this good, bad, the aftershocks and repercussions. What could or may happen now?

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The news that rocked and shocked the hobby world, we dive into specific details including some new ones that just came out, is this good, bad, the aftershocks and repercussions. What could or may happen now?

Follow us on Social Media:






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Wow. First word that comes to mind. Wow, but you know, in the way it is in the hobby today, we really shouldn't be a surprise as we all are and it's big business. We see what's happening with with college sports and IL loyal piece out the door for the two cents. They are worth. It's All About the Benjamins. Rappers. Like to say, you know, when I have this this was not going to be this week's hobby quick. It's I was going to do the PWC see and eaten eBay episode and guess what? You're not off the hook PWC, see? That will be next Monday, but obviously, the tops Fanatics deal Trump's that and I wanted to, you know, turn the mic on and do this episode. Load when it's fresh in my mind, I didn't want to wait a week. Now the risk of doing this sooner is, you know, more developments could come. So I could wait a week and kind of see what those developments are, but I wanted to get this out there ASAP, and then we can push back the PWC. See episode 2 following Monday. Well, a lot to cover a lot to cover here and 

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In the area stop by there are open 7 days a week for check them out. Mojo braids shop.com. All right, I'm not even sure where to start unpacking this. Well, let's start by explaining the deal in detail. What we know so far. Some of you may not know all the particulars I went and make sure to get them. So the Fanatics deal. Is 10 times greater than any of the highest previous deals? If you ask me, you know, I think that they overpaid, when you think about it on that level, but to wrestle away from a giant, like tops. I guess that's what you have to do. They will get the players license at the end of 2020 to, they will get the Major League, Baseball license at the end of 20 25. 

Also. The products. They released one day. Get these licenses won't necessarily be called Fanatics. They have yet to announce what the product, what the brand name will be. They own the license, but they can name the brand anything. They want to. Also, they get the candy digital, the official Major League Baseball, and F key rights for UNF key, folks. I'm not one of those so I don't really care. R. If nothing changes tops will be left holding soccer and NHL stickers when it comes to major sports brands. Something tells me that won't be the case when the dust settles, we're going to talk about some of those scenarios on this very episode. Also, Fanatics will get the NBA players license. 

20:25, they will get the NFL players license in 2026 and many feel like the elite licenses will be given to them as well. So you may have a fanatic soand card company producing three major sports NBA NFL and Major League Baseball. I don't to be honest with you. I don't think that's good. You know, whether that's the old man on the porch, in me. I don't think that's good. And, you know, everyone was always talked about, right May. Well, get today where you have multiple card companies, like you used to be right doing the same sport Upper Deck, flee, or score tops down, Ross, never going to happen. I'll go on record and say, never going to happen those Dozer. 

Dreams, and this is the current landscape of financial aspects of the industry, you know, of the industry. And, you know, I'm concerned a little bit. I mean, I'm not getting, you know, I saw some people post on social media. I'm getting out of the hobby. You know, I'm not collecting baseball, no more, you know, all sorts of Doomsday. Today, you know, I'm definitely not. I'm going to be collecting cards buying cards selling card that that's not going to change at just this just doesn't feel right. Right. Like listen what I'm going to say right when this news came down, right? It just didn't feel right as crazy as that sounds, right? We don't have any personal skin in the game, really. Actually, I take that back. I guess I do a little bit. You know, I've 

The muds spec offering, which will barely turn into top stock, you know, and it's funny when this story broke, my DM's kind of lit up like a Christmas tree because a lot of people knew I had bought that stock at, you know, decent amount. And they're like, what are you going to do? You're going to sell it all, it's going to crash. And so when I got to ask this question, my response initially was I'm going to hold right? Holding out, hope that maybe there's some kind of secret agreement. Maybe, you know, tops is going to sell out to Fanatics. In other words, Fanatics will buy the majority stock purchase. Once the, the stock goes public and get own erring controllers, you know, majority ownership of. So, all these thoughts went through my mind. So initially when everyone was asking me, because they knew I had 

A decent amount of the shares. They, you know, I said I'm going to hold and I was and then the following day as we all saw, you know, the announced that the plan that take tops public was over, you know, mud mud, Rick and tops, dissolve, their relationship and tops. I was going to be remain a private company and that change the equation. 

For me and I immediately, Got on my ETrade account and sold everything. I'm trying to think it was probably two dollars and fifty cents a share a loss for share, but I had to get out before that number went to much lower like in cards or any kind of investment thing or money thing, right? If it's going to continue to go down. Sometimes it's cut your losses, you know, before they're too much. And so I sold all my Sheriff's. I saw a lot of other people posting on social media. They were selling all theirs as well. And so sometimes you got to make that decision to you know, cut your losses, get out, you know, is there any way this these can go up? Sure. I'm sure there's a way. I just the fact that they're not going public, sort of changes the equation. 

Let's be honest, cops is not going to sit on their hands here. They're gonna try something. I want to talk about some things. They might be able to do here to save a little face. It's never going to be exactly the same, but maybe a little bit face, stay viable in the in the sports card industry. So going back to when the news first broke, I'm not gonna lie, you know, I've been doing this a long time. It was stunning to me. It really was studying. You know, you always kind of just thought like, you know, tops and baseball. Go together man. It's like Oreos and milk, right, you know, peanut butter and jelly, whatever analogy you want to make. So I'm face value when that's no news. First broke it. It knocked you up your feet. You're like what? You know, I read it, two or three times. I'm like up. I'm reading something wrong. There's there's word. 

In here, you know, maybe they got the Panini's players license, only type of deal like what am I missing? And then, you know, I read all the specs and on the deal and realize now this is the real deal. And then you say, how does a phanie Fanatics is a huge company? And they're all right. They're not a card company, at least not that I. Yeah, right. They're going to be most likely here. And you know, you say well how can a non card company kind of do this? But here's when you really dive and delve into this. It actually becomes a little more clearer Fanatics. Already deals with individual players on a regular basis. They have exclusive contracts. They pay very handsomely and they're very well liked by players in all the sports. 

All right. All the sports is why they're going to get all those players license plate. Your licensing for four cards. And, you know, they're very well like they pay well and they have that got their foot in the door and now they barged in. And, and that's that's why this is a money game regardless whether you like that fact or not. That's where The industry is, that's where the hobby is, right? What makes headlines, right? All these big dollar auctions, all these companies and Acquisitions. And here in a sense. This is an acquisition. And what did they acquire? They acquired exclusive rights licensing. They got it in rem in some cases and memorabilia would just the recently with the old Connie deal and now they got it with the card licensing. 

And so, it really, when you really take a step back, kind of look at it. It's not a shocking. I mean, it's still shocking, but it makes more sense after taking a deep breath and really looking at it at least to me and I think if you look at it like that, they're not an unknown, you know, that's I think everyone kind of freaky, you know things. Well, they never made cars before they were an unknown. They're not an unknown. If they work. 

Directly with players and Players Association already there. There are known commodity, this was, you know, someone I read somewhere, someone blamed tops for maybe just kind of doing what we did, right assume. They're always going to have that League license, right? And getting complacent and I'm not behind closed doors. I don't know if they're complacent. I don't know if they got lakhs. I can't answer that. I don't work. Four cops. What? It's worth the Wall Street Journal is reporting that tops had no idea. That Major League Baseball was even negotiating with someone else other than them and that they found out almost in a similar way that the general public did. They were notified literally two to three hours before the public release statement. They were they were notified meeting tops about three hours before. 

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Before we were, so, Probably give you think it was a shock to to hobbyist. Probably was a very a shot if that's true. That's think about the shock, the tops and it's reported. They didn't even realize that deal was even being negotiating with anybody else. And then, they hear this. And Michael Eisner was livid according to this report from The Wall Street Journal. And Called up Rob Manfred, the commissioner of Major League Baseball and they had a heated exchange over the phone. Now again, this is all being reported. I can't say with certainty. It's true, but most likely probably true. Michael Eisner. It's a shrewd businessman. If if he felt like he was wrong or Duke or Fairplay wasn't in order, he's going to 

It sounds like something he would do, or should do and reports are, he is very beside himself. So, you know, crazy stuff, if that's how that was handled. I think that just that shows you the Cutthroat business of business world. Again, business will vote, regardless, whether they did or didn't get complacent. It's, I don't know if it's complacency that got this. This deal done for Fanatics or money that again, they paid 10 times. What the highest previous deal was ten times, not 10, more dollars, not 10, more million dollars, whatever that number was 10 times that number multiply it, by 10 times. So where do we go from here? You know, what can tops do? Well remember, you know, name image likeness is really taking the Forefront here. 

In tops tops is going to get into that in some form or fashion, right? You know, while I said Fanatics, probably gets those other league licenses after getting already. Getting the players licensing and nothing's nothing's set in stone. They could try to put their money together and maybe still get those League licenses, but I got a feeling that loyalty is going to be too. 

And that it's with them going to be holding the players license already. Here's another option. And here's another theory. I'll throw out there. Well, what if Fanatics, you know barely monies doesn't seem to be an issue form. They just paid 10 times the record previous record. What if Penny fanatics You know, pace and gets controlling interest of tops and says we own tops. No to, and we're going to our license with the players and League. We're going to produce the top strand is under our ownership, and it's not going away, but we own it and we're going to control it and do whatever we want to do and that is, you know, I'm not predicting. It happens. 

I'm not even sure. I don't know if that's good or a bad thing. I guess it's good that if that was to occur you still see those five letters and some baseball cards t.o.p. PS, but you know that is still a pop-up potential possibility, you know, top says not at the time of this recording has not issued any statement regarding this. I quite sure I got imagine they might be reeling in Themselves a little bit stunned, especially if you believe rumors that they've got a little complacent kind of assuming that their, their licenses would just keep being extended and maybe didn't see this coming. Here's another scenario. What about this? What if let's say Fanatics doesn't by cops, not interested, whatever. What if they just sell baby body year? Two years, three years. 

The naming rights for their, you know, they didn't otherwise, they become a middleman, like they buy the house and they rent the house to Tops, right? They say you want to rent the house for three years and make baseball cards. You pay us this. I don't see that as the realm of possibility. Now. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not sure if that's legal. I'm not sure if the Players Association or Major League Baseball. 

This case would say, Listen, we you know, we wanted Taps to do that. We would have sold the rights tools so that they themselves might block that. But if they don't, what's this A Fanatics doesn't say the tops. Hey, this is what it costs to do. Your Brand's. The next three years, you know, we own the house. You want to live in it, pay us this amount. This is what the you know, the rent is if you will, I know it's a little more complicated. Dated, did I just made that out to sound like, but why not? Why, you know, I don't know. Although the legal ramifications. I don't know if the Players Association or the league itself would balk at that. I have a feeling they might, unless all parties could get together and leave that room with an understanding. This is good for everyone, or this is how it's going to go, but I'll throw down on the table and so this 

This is shattering, you know, industry shattering news. This changes the landscape of the sports card hobby because this is not affecting one sport, folks. It's affecting baseball basketball. And the NFL, and the only company right now that I can see, you can correct me if you think of running only company kind of came out, sort of unscathed here. 

Love attack with their hockey license. That's not involved here whatsoever. So there, you know, at this point, what those who knows what's next, right? And so, Panini's affected because Fanatics is getting the NBA players licensing and the NFL players licensing. And man. I mean, this is just there's so many different angles to this story. You know, I try to keep these episodes to 15 to 25 minutes and we're getting in that facility. But, you know, I'm not going to be so much. And I don't know how long we're good, we go, but I'm not time Limited in this. I'm want to really just talk about everything that comes to mind. I'm not even. This is not scripted. This is just off the cuff, if, if you will. So, you know, what is tops? Do it again? 

They try to go heavily in the to the ni L. I suspect they were going, they were going to do that. Anyway, right. So now that just gets ramped up. They have the NHL stickers. They have soccer still rustling. But this is a major blow that, you know, this is about they're taking on some water here. If nothing changes, you know, there's a human element to this. The folks as well and I'm very sensitive to that. This is more than just cardboard and chrome. There's a human element to this people may lose their job people. I know maybe if had on this show are going to be you know out of work at least temporarily until they land on their feet. Hopefully somewhere else because if cops loses he's like Topps baseball is a major you 

No, this I'm not breaking any news here, major, what they do with their number one thing with candy, right? And you know, it's going to, you know, affect their intake of income at so many levels. Montgomery house. It affect Montgomery club, right? Probably not going to be a Montgomery Club. Let's say, do a shocker Montgomery club, right? Or wrestling Montgomery cup Club. Living said, you know, they do it in soccer. I'm sure that will continue, but that's probably going to be the end of tops. Lemay said, there's just so many wrinkles and layers to this. You know, what, probably, when I wrap this show up and get it out there. I'll probably remember something I forgot to talk about during this very show. So there's just so many ways and angles to look at this and know what it stops. Do, they hope? 

They almost kidney late kind of present themselves to Like Hey by us - and let's keep together with you. Run into ship and driving the car. Let's keep that tops name, you know, out there, Fanatics again. I you know what just happened, but maybe there's a reason to have. It said what they're actually going to name the brand of cards. Maybe there's something going on behind the scenes. We don't know about. Yeah, right. Turn The Panini Panini's gotta be like, you know, their knees knocking a little bit because there they might lose everything, you know, or potentially a lot. This thing is so and it's just hard to put in to words how, how many tentacles this thing has. You know, I just in my mind, I see like an octopus, you know, with with eight arms are just so so many tentacles, it affects only thing. The only one 

You know, that it's not affecting his problem, upper deck and and the hockey stuff now evenly for Onyx, you know, where they do that n IL or the celebrity stuff. But you know, that's another thing task probably just says, hey, well, it's you know, we have some celebrity reach. Let's let's go into that genres taking Mike range upon Leaf, you know, I don't know, Brian Gray super. Well, he's been on the show. 

Had some other minor conversations, whether maybe he's, this might be the time to sell Li for the Pro Set name and brand right? Now's the time to strike while the iron's hot. I mean, they're just, I don't know. Let's be real, it's going to be very interesting whether you like what happened or you don't like what happened, you know, the next few years. It's and that's the thing where, you know, the whole Twitter broke when this news Is broke, right? Everyone's talking about myself included. I'm not picking on anyone. I'm I'm guilty as charged. Well, we forget this isn't going to happen right away. This is you're looking at least two or three years before we see the full effects and where the Fallout is and how this all shakes out. You know, we're not going to be able to keep up this social media Pace every day for two or three years, so we'll sort of have some 

Wall stuff will come out, maybe certain news breaks. But this is, you know, the old New York saying I like to say, it is what it is and it's shocking. As it is. It's sort of par for the course in the current business landscape of the sports card Hobby and the street, what have you? And so, what's next, right? Talk about a crazy week when news, you know, I'm so old. I remember, You can go months in the hobby without any sort of major news breaking. He can't even go one or two days anymore. So what, what's next, right? And this is going to be a ripple effect, right? Or wave affect the tsunami, rather than a ripple effect is going to things going to happen after this. We see a lot of mergers and Acquisitions, and there's stuff going on right now. That just hasn't been announced yet. So we'll see. It's 

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To be probably doing some more shows along these lines. I mean, that's the beauty, you know, if there's a silver lining for me and probably other content creators, quite frankly, if there was them that it's do, they know what I'm talking about? Is there is no shortage of material to cover, right? I don't do a podcast necessarily everyday, you happy quickens on Monday. I do, you know, Sports coordination on Friday, and there's no shortage of material. Look, I had to move the episode. I was planning to release today back a week. And that was big news in its own right with the PWC, see, eBay stuff. And now that gets pushed back a week. So this is unprecedented times. As far as I'm concerned in the hive, the it's fun. It can be a little, you know, medicine, scary, if you used to the old ways and and but, you know, it's not going to deter me from enjoying. 

Bobby, there's a lot of ways to enjoy the hobby, you know, and we'll see. You know, what we'll see is sometimes, you know, someone asked me, could this potentially be better? I don't know, right? I don't know. I don't have a crystal ball. Maybe they'll have better customer service. Maybe they changed the game. Maybe there's Innovative with things. They've got planned. I got to think they got some plans again, if they're paying 10 times with the previous record, was for this licensing deal. They better have a plan also, just, I forgot to announce this Josh Luber CEO of stock X will be the 

Yo, I don't know if that's what they're officially calling the title, but he will lead a Sports Card, Fanatics brand. I'll just say that's not a fan of that. I'll kind of point to the tops stock up. Stock X collaboration the from the last couple years. I thought it was drab and and not Innovative. I don't, you know, can you point them, you know, one or two? Releases and say that's what you're getting across the board. I wouldn't think that's fair. But you know, he's not a car guy in the true sense of the word. Some people might say John that's a good thing. It's time to kind of think outside the box, think new. But I also think there's something to be said about people who've been in the hobby, or wild that know the hobby too kind of staring at ship. 

So I guess that's a two-sided coin, depending on what side you fall you fall on. So Joshua over will take the reins of the new Fanatics card line and it'll be interesting to see how this all continues the fall out. So stay tuned. I guess right. Next week's hobby quick hits. Whoops, supposed to be the PWC see eBay thing. But who knows, right, right, maybe gets pushed back again with some more late breaking news, but thank you for some spend. Thank you for spending some time with us today. And remember no matter what, no matter if you feel bad about it, glad about it. You can still ha be your choice. Your way. You can pivot to do different things. You know, I've really gotten heavy into the Vintage things, the last year, and a half two years. So that's 

Going to change for me. Those cards are made. Those cards can be bought and sold, someone even message me there, folks. It's no one. I was getting more heavily out to the Vintage and they're like, what do you think that does to that market? And again, all speculation, just an educated? Guess I think it drives those prices up. When we talk about the hobby right in cars, right? There's a Nostalgia element to it. And if people think, and if this is really the end R tops and baseball cards. You don't get any more nostalgic than that, when a brand doesn't exist anymore. Right? And so we look back to all over the years and say, you know, they don't make cars no more. But, you know, I can go back and get that, you know, 53-man or 54 man can get that. Yes, you know, rookie and you know and at a 60 top so it can, you know, they can get that 75. 

Brett can yell. Take that away. Right? When this story broke. I made a used Braveheart mean, you know, and I wrote out like they can never get our vintage and it's true. I mean, it's funny you kind of a little poke you can wear but those cards are not acquired in Deal. They're made they're ready made to always be tops. And so at the end of the day, you know, and if that if you like vintage or you getting into vintage that Option will always be there for you. All right, folks. We're going to put a cap on this thing. And I don't know. Next time we talk. We'll see. We'll see what else is on the horizon. Hope everyone is staying safe being well and we'll see you next time. Howdy quickens. 

In case I don't see you, good afternoon, good evening and good night.