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What is up everybody? Welcome to episode
Sports Car Nation. John Newman. Glad to
be back. got a guest on today. He's been
on the show, but it's been a while and
always a pleasure uh getting to talk to
him uh chop up the hobby. Has his own
podcast that's doing uh super well and
uh full-time in the hobby now between
that and and other things. And so, uh
Brett McGrath is our guest uh from
Stacking Slabs on today's program. Uh
before we get started, uh kudos to all
our great sponsors for without who uh
without them this show doesn't happen.
So uh Iron Sports Cards, uh Sports
Collectors Digest, uh Hobby Hotline, and
Upper Deck. And uh great great to have
them part of the Sports Card Nation
family. So with that out of the way,
let's uh get to talking with uh Brett
McGrath of Stacking Slabs.
All right. Happy to have this next
gentleman on the Sports Card Nation
guest line. It's he's been a a part of
this program before, but it's been a
couple years. And I I tell you the
truth, I didn't even realize it till I
kind of looked it up and uh much too
long. So, uh, uh, time to have him back
on, uh, and, uh, great guy doing great
content, uh, in his own right. Uh, Brett
McGrath of Stacking Slabs. Welcome back,
John. Thanks for having me. Time flies
when you're having fun. What I, even
though it's been a couple years, uh, I
definitely tune into Sports Card Nation
and enjoy all the conversations you
have, especially when Dr. Beckett's on.
I always find his his insight uh, always
gives me something new to think about.
But what I like about this is you you
were doing this before I started and
you're still doing it now. And I just I
love not not only creators being here
and creating and sharing thoughts and
their opinions and bringing on guests,
but just the longevity and consistency.
So, Sports Card Nation's been an
institution for quite a while and uh
glad to be a part of it today.
Well, well, thank you. And that's just
another way of saying I'm old and you're
I can't deny it. my birth certificate uh
gives me away. No, no, I I appreciate
all joking aside and you're right
whenever I have Dr. Jim on and I've
known him a while and he's a friend and
I know you know him. Um you know it's
it's he makes you think he sees it from
a different angle and he's like after I
I talk with him I'm like how come I like
that was like you made that seem so
easy. How come I didn't like you almost
kind of secondguess yourself but that's
just you know he's done this a long
time. He's a brilliant guy. Um, and
that's just the the genius of of Dr.
Jim. And so, yeah, no, no doubt. That's
why he's a great guest, right? Is
because he makes you look at it from a a
different perspective. And uh uh and
listen, uh you you likewise, right?
You're you're very intelligent. You've
been in this. You're not new to the
hobby. You know, like you said, you
started after me. It wasn't like that
far after me. So, uh, you're in that OG,
uh, category, uh, as well. And that's
that category has there's a lot of shows
now compared four, six years ago, uh,
when we started, uh, and whatnot. Well,
kind of. We'll start off there, Brett.
Like, you know, is that good? Is that
bad? Is it it'll just shake itself out?
Will people just listen to shows they
enjoy and the proof sort of in the
pudding? Is that really is the is simple
as that? I think uh I often say this
like I create a lot of content and have
a ton of conversations as do you and
share those out publicly and just go
through this cycle of constantly doing
it. But on the other side of it, I'm
probably just as big of of a consumer of
content in the hobby. I go on a lot of
walks, run, and I'm always listen to
hobby podcasts. And I'll tell you this,
like I'll listen to other podcasts
outside of hobby podcasts, but when
there are new hobby podcasts available,
they're always the ones that I want to
listen to first. And I just think like
the diversity of a voices opinions,
different flavors of the hobby, like
even if it's something that I don't do
or don't collect and someone's covering
it on the podcast, I I try to listen
because it makes me more informed. And
so I think what what I've noticed over
this stretch of um you know talking into
a microphone to uh collectors for so
long is that you know a lot of people
will start projects and but it's really
hard to keep them going and I think the
the creators that continue to keep their
podcast going um have a passion and
usually that passion shines through. So,
I always encourage any listeners like if
you have a unique angle or something you
want to talk about like start a podcast
and uh it's I'll listen to it. I'll
definitely listen to it. Um but yeah,
it's as you know, it's it's not easy to
keep the the ship uh going uh for a long
time. But yeah, it's been fun and always
appreciate new shows to listen to.
Yeah, well said. And and I was saying,
you know, you look at yourself and you
look at myself, you know, who's doing
more running and more walking. that's
more apparent and listening to probably
more content because be because of that.
So, uh but no, it's it's you know
there's just so the hobby is just so
diverse as well like you said that there
is room for content that's kind of being
done different um you know and and I'
I've stayed sort of true. I' I've
changed things here and there. You know,
I talked even before we went uh live and
and and told you, you know, we went even
double episodes here with with guests
instead of one big long one just for uh
just from from listener feedback and
just, you know, for for my schedule too
to uh full transparency, it's made kind
of my job uh I don't even want to say
job, but made my life a little bit
easier in kind of scheduling these out
and and getting folks on. Uh but yeah,
you know, uh you know, it's it's and no
matter what you collect, there's
probably a show uh that pertains to it.
And uh I want to segue into a part of
the hobby you're uh a part of and very
familiar with, and that's uh the
wrestling uh hobby and wrestling in
general, right? I had uh uh about a
month ago, Drake McGrder, a friend of
yours on. I had Gellman, Adam Gellman on
in the past. The one thing I I even
though I'm not a wrestling card guy, I
you don't have to be to see how
tight-knit that community and how
passionate that community is. Uh I'd
even say like I don't know if you agree
with it. It I I know it's a smaller
segment, but they seem even closer than
other sports uh hobby. Uh I guess
two-pronged, right? Am I right? and and
what do you attest that uh to
I think it there's a nature of uh it's
kind of like a startup category in a way
and uh when you're forming and you're
growing you tend to know everybody or
most people and you know what the types
of cards or wrestlers or products that
you those collectors in the community
collect and there's a sense of wanting
to help those individuals out. I'm not
going to there there there's
competition, right? there's competition
in other categories, but I think the the
shared passion which for many uh
wrestling card collectors comes from
childhood um is something that uh people
are able to connect on. Um I'll also say
you mentioned Gellman like there's
individuals in the space who have been
organizers and sometimes it takes
individuals who are super passionate and
have a voice and are want to create
content and I think like we are in this
era where we're moving towards like more
focus and niche content for specific
categories and Gellman has really been
the leader of that for the wrestling
card community. Um, I'm a member of his
Patreon group, uh, main event and he's I
got I get an up I get an email regularly
that new article, new conversation,
whatever is, uh, put out there. But I
know Galman pretty well and Gellman is
super passionate and he wants to share
information and that information coming
from manufacturers, information coming
from people he's talking with. And so I
just think what's what I like about the
wrestling card community is there's just
always a flood of information, always uh
information about sales and where cards
are, what's available, and yeah, it as
as you expand and categories grow, it
gets harder and harder to operate that
like that. But I think that's what a
cool part is about uh wrestling cards in
the community around it right now.
Yeah. And I I think you tell me if you
agree with this too, Brett. Like even,
you know, even with sports cards,
obviously now sports cards and and the
hobby, it's making mainstream news at at
record clips. Uh especially the last few
years, especially uh since co, you know,
at at one point you you were probably it
wasn't really as cool to be in the hobby
as it is, let's say today. People were
reluctant to even say, hey, you know, I
collect baseball cards or football card,
whatever, you know. And I I think even
with wrestling cards, there was that
stigma. Uh whether it was right or wrong
or but now I think just with the
explosion of everything else. Um and
listen, no one's denying how popular
wrestling is. You see the the soldout
arenas and the pay-per-views. Uh but I
think too it's it's there was sort of a
bugaboo like if you if if someone knew
like, oh, you collect cards. I think
we're way past that point. Uh but I
think because we're way past that point
uh it's it it makes it easier to do in
that uh tighter and I think maybe
because that community remembers when it
wasn't like it was like it is now uh and
how it was a little more like you kind
of kept it behind closed doors or
yourself that uh that uh maybe that's
that factors in there too.
Yeah. those those individuals who were
collecting uh cards when they weren't
cool and especially collecting wrestling
cards when they weren't cool and have
been here the whole time are certainly
probably doing pretty well for
themselves. Uh cuz you know that that
category is is grown, right? New people
coming in um passion being shared. Um
you've got you know the Netflix deal
with WWE. You've obviously got tops
coming in, grabbing the the license,
which adds a whole another marketing
element to everything at new eyeballs.
It's it's been growing quickly in real
time. I'll tell you, I went to
Wrestlemania in Vegas this year with my
best friend. We met when we were three
or four years old, uh, playing with
wrestling figures at our brother's YMCA
basketball game. Still friends today,
best friends. Still talk about wrestling
all the time. But we we we got the hall
pass from our wives that you know we
both turned 40 this year and it was like
all right we're going to go to Vegas and
young bucks. She's still young bucks at
over the hill but yeah I'll take it
John. Uh but yeah we we went there and
we went to WWE access and went through
and did it all. And I'll tell you what
man no everywhere you turned were
wrestling cards promotion of tops
chrome. We walked into um Allegent where
the Raiders play where the event was and
right when I walked in there was a huge
cardboard cutout of a Topps Chrome
autograph Ria Ripley card and I look
around and there's just promo for cards
everywhere. Now I've been going to
wrestling events my entire life. I've
never seen anything like that. So part
of the growth, right, is people sharing
information and people passionate and
community organizers like Gelman, but
then it's also like you've got a
manufacturer who's like going allin on
the promotion of new products and
exposure to an audience. And what's
crazy about wrestling fans is wrestling
fans aren't scared of spending money.
They'll spend money on tickets,
t-shirts, memorabilia, action figures,
but cards have never really been a part
of that. And now they very much are. And
it's it's fun to see it getting going.
Uh yeah, and it's important, I think,
too, for the the the sport itself to
embrace uh the hobby because I think
they sort of they have to they have to
they're not mutually exclusive. I think
they need sort of need each other or at
least, you know, the the hobby needs
wrestling maybe more so, but you know,
the more people who are into the hobby,
the the more fans you're going to have.
Time for a quick break, but we'll be
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Sports Card Nation has returned.
When I had Gman on, I talked about this
like does the sport itself like do
enough to promote the fact that because
I you mention I'd love to see, you know,
when you go to a wrestling event, you
know, you go through you come through
the door and you get a promo pack of
some sort. Uh, and I I would venture a
guess, and you tell me if I'm right or
wrong, Brett, there's people going to
get this promo pack who probably don't
even realize they're actually wrestling
cards. Maybe they're buying the shirts
uh and that sort of thing or the belts
and and stuff. They don't even realize
they're trading cards and that might be
their their avenue to know that they
exist. And and here we have a new
wrestling card hobbyist, right? And and
what's that take, right? It doesn't it
it doesn't you know I I know there's
printing and stuff like that but uh I
mean just think about what you know a
kid walks through he's already excited
he's going to watch some of his his
favorite wrestlers probably perform live
in front of him rather than on TV and
then he's handed a pack and maybe
doesn't even know cards exist. And I I'm
mentioning kids but this could be adults
uh as well. Kind of your thoughts on
maybe seeing some more of that. Yeah, I
think uh I think we will see more of
that just based on my observations of
how uh Topps is operating right now. Um
one of the things that I noticed was,
you know, they dropped the Cactus Jack
version of Topps Chrome while we were at
Wrestlemania. You know, you could buy it
at the show and you could, you know,
resell it the the the the online for,
you know, multiples. So like there's
that element too of like people like
immediately flipping wrestling cards. U
but it just adds a whole another element
I think in terms of exposure. One of the
things that just like blew my mind
seeing this for the first time but I was
like sitting on my couch. I was watching
Raw on Netflix and this was like a few
months ago but they were doing like a
matchup. They're like highlighting the
main event or the next matchup and I
remember vividly like one of the perform
performers was Damen Priest and I can't
remember who he was wrestling against
but they showed the matchup as they
segueed the commercial and they were
highlighting them in cardboard form. It
was like their tops chrome cards on the
screen and I was like that's a pretty
cool way to promote the product like
during the show as a part of the show.
And so I think in this era of WWE,
they're definitely more open to sponsors
than they were uh in a previous era. And
I think it's a good opportunity for uh
wrestling cards to get more eyeballs.
Yeah. And I think the Fanatic Tops brand
that's kind of, you know, they do a good
job of of promoting um themselves and
what the what they've gotten the license
for. Do you think it's as simple as that
where maybe a prior uh card company just
kind of failed uh in in that department
and maybe it it hurt? Maybe that's why
they don't have the license anymore. You
know, I hate to make it as black and
white as that, but you know, you have
Yeah. I I uh what I can say is that
whether you like what they're doing or
you don't like what they're doing, the
approach that Fanatic/Tops
is taking to get attention has never
been seen before. And it it it works in
this era of being online scrolling. It's
the way they're approaching influencers,
the way they're approaching getting each
product line out, events like Fanatics
Fest is something like we we haven't
seen before. So, if you're a company
like WWE and they're talking about all
this new modern ways to promote and
involving talent and, you know, using
digital channels and different
strategies and using influencers like if
you're chances are that's probably going
to be appetizing for those decision
makers. Um, and I don't I couldn't tell
you begin to tell you how all those
deals went down and why they went down,
but they're Fanatics is a marketing
machine. They're a marketing company and
it like they promised they were going to
do that and they're delivering on that.
At least I've been seeing that in the
Yeah, no doubt. And I'm not even a
wrestling guy per se, Brett, and yet I'm
picking that up. So, what's that? What's
There you go. I'm seeing some promos for
matches and like you said, they're using
the the the you know the wrestlers on
the cards as part of that uh promo for
that match. And uh uh maybe as simple as
that. Someone says, "Hey, that's a
card." Like who get those? Who makes
them? How do I obtain them? That sort of
thing. It's it's it's I know it's not as
simple as that, but something as simple
as that can can bring a whole bunch of
new hobbyists into the the fold. And I
truthfully I I don't know if you agree.
I expect I I'm assuming that the
wrestling hobby is going to grow as a
result of of the fanatic tops input.
I I would imagine so. And one thing that
I'll just call out that I've noticed
that just to show to tell the listeners
where this is right now in terms of uh
the promotion side whenever I've
observed this whenever there's a new
product to be opened you have Triple H
Icon WWE Hall of Famer chief creative
officer the guy in charge of the product
right now they do a uh a video of him
and Sam Roberts who's a a uh he's got a
wrestling podcast, but they just Triple
H just is sitting there opening up the
packs and they're talking about the
cars. It's like that never would have
been done under the Vince McMahon era.
And I just think it's like that
content's probably not for everyone. But
if you're a kid and you're watching
wrestling and you collect cards and
never have connected the dots and you
see a video of Triple H opening up the
new Tops Chrome Pack, like it's probably
going to get your attention. So, I think
those sorts of tactics uh they're
they're employing right now and I think,
you know, we're talking about them on a
podcast, so they're they're doing
Yeah. And I'm not a wrestling guy and I
have nothing against it. I'm just not my
it's not my lane, right? And like you
just said, we're both talking about it.
So, and I've had even more people on the
show to talk about it. And uh that's
that's saying something uh uh right
there. All right. So, we'll put a bow a
little bow on on wrestling as it's about
to uh grow even more. Uh, you know,
let's talk about your content. Uh,
stacking slabs. Uh, like you said, I I
know you said you're after me. I don't
look at it like that. I look at it like
we're all in the fraternity, right? We
all can't graduate uh the same year. And
if you if the graduation's earlier, it
just means I'm older and I'm getting
older uh quicker. Um, again, we've seen
a change, but even even your cats
changed. Um, uh, I don't know when I I
I'll kind of put you not really on the
spot, but you're now full-time in the
hobby, which which is awesome. Kind of
talk about that progression. Uh, how
tough of a decision or maybe not to to
do that. Um, any nervousness to, you
know, anytime you I think any anyone
I've talked to who's done that, Brett
always said, "Yeah, it is." you know
it's a little unknown like it's known
and unknown and you you're about but
every story is is unique and every
journey is unique kind of uh for you
kind of talk how how you got there and
and the thoughts about doing it
yeah I'll give the brief overview so I
have I spent previously uh the last 15
years of my career working in uh B2B
marketing mostly for software companies
in a marketing function and worked for
companies all shapes and sizes. But
throughout that experience, I did uh a I
did marketing and I did content and I
built brands and I did podcasting. I did
did a lot of of uh you know, brand
building. And during COVID, I got really
bored and was working from home and was
thought, you know, I could take what I'm
doing professionally and apply it to the
hobby. And that's was really the genesis
of stacking slabs is like I was bored. I
just wanted to meet other collectors
who've been doing it longer than me and
maybe we can create some content um
along the way. That turned into a 4-year
passion project. And it's like, you
know, it it's like once you start and
you're really into it, you can't really
stop. And while I was working, it felt
like uh you know, kind of two jobs at
once. And then 2024, I was working for a
startup that I put three years in and it
ran out of funding and I lost my job.
So, it was like the first time uh in my
career I did not have a job and I had to
figure out what I wanted to do and
really my mindset was around well I'm
spending all this time with stacking
slabs and the content. I made all these
connections like what what can I do in
order to set myself up and be able to do
this full-time. During that time as I
was plotting uh meeting with people
trying to figure out the path I took a a
contractor job and then that contractor
job I didn't want it to but it it ended
up becoming a full-time gig while I'm
trying to run stacking slabs and take it
off the ground and do it full-time and
then it just reached this crossroads. It
was it was okay. Well, I've made enough
of the right connections and financially
I think I'm in a position to be able to
make this happen. Uh luckily because
I've got an awesome audience and some
great sponsors and I talked to my wife
November of last year and she said go do
it. And I next day I got on and talked
to my CEO and felt like maybe blindsided
him a little bit, but uh I left and
really never looked back. And so I've
been, you know, working for myself,
building out stacking slabs since
November of 2024 and I haven't looked
back. I can't tell you how fortunate I
feel every day that I can wake up after
I take my kids to school and come back
to the desk and have just an endless
amount of uh content and things to work
on all hobby related. And it's I feel
very fortunate and it feels very much
like I'm just getting started this year.
We have expanded. We've almost got a new
show coming out uh every day. We're
starting new shows, niche, f category
specific. WNBA card podcast is one of
them that's launched. We just launched
the football card podcast. We're working
with show with shows with sponsors. And
so there's no in it's the the work is
it's never ending. It's never ending.
There's there's there's formatting.
There's the outreach to have these
conversations. There's the
conversations. And then it's do it all
over again. And I was looking at my
calendar, John, uh, for tomorrow. And I
have a mini little vacation with my
family, which I haven't taken a vacation
in forever with my family right before
the national and I just looked and I
have four recordings all in a row
tomorrow. And I'm just like, this is
what I signed up for, but I love it. So,
I feel very fortunate. It's the best.
This is the best. I've I've had many
jobs and I've worked for many awesome
companies, many great people. This is
easily the best job I've ever had.
Yeah. And you love it. you're passionate
about. I know we throw that word around
sometimes uh too easy, right? Love or
passionate, but when you really do,
right, it comes through. I think it
comes through uh in in your content. I I
know I get that from you. It's not
there's no phoniness there. It's it's
genuine. You can tell sometimes, you
know, when someone's sort of going
through the motions. You know, someone
asked me, Brett, like, you know, John,
how when will you know like your podcast
is like you're done? like and it's a
real simple answer. I didn't even have
to think about it. When I turn on the
mic and I don't want to or it's not fun
anymore or I look at it as like uh you
know I'm in in the teaching profession
by day now and I love that gig. I'm not
going to give it up even though I
probably could with like you with the
hobby side. Uh but I love the kids. But,
you know, if I ever turn like it's like
even knowing, hey, I'm going to come
home and I'm going to have a great
conversation most likely with Brett.
Like, I look forward to that. If it and
I don't foresee this, but
hypothetically, if I would have been
thinking like, ah, man, I got to talk to
Brett. I'd rather jump in my hot tub. If
I get to that point, like, and I get
sometimes it might be a day, you know,
you're just having an off day like an
athlete, right? I went 0 for four. But
if that becomes more like the norm, um,
uh, which I don't I don't ever see that
happening. But if it did, that's when
that's when I know. And I always tell
when I get asked that question, Brett, I
always say I have nothing to do with
downloads. You know, when I started this
show, uh, it wasn't sponsored. It was
slow going at first and then it just
sort of built up. I'm sure you're you
you know exactly what I'm talking about.
And I never did the show to make money.
That's a nice what's become a nice perk
of it, but it's still not the real
reason. Like if that even went away now,
even after getting used to it, I still
would do the show. It's it's more the
internal feeling that like I don't want
to do this anymore or I don't want to
have this camera or I rather do this
than that. And if that ever happens,
again, I don't I don't foresee that. But
if if that became the the happen stance
or the circumstance, then that's all I
need. I'll know then. Uh, and it'll have
nothing to do with all the superficial
and and financial aspects. Always
awesome having Brett on the program. And
here's the best part. This was only part
one. So, part two will continue next
week, our conclusion with Brett McGrath.
And uh, hope you enjoyed uh, listening
as much as I enjoyed uh, the
conversation I had with Brett. And
again, part conclusion part two. uh next
Friday. All right, before we close out
the show here with with some closing
thoughts, I you know, I don't often
bring in like outside the hobby stuff
uh unless you're living under Iraq, you
know, this week was a particularly
difficult one uh living here in this
country with some incidents and killings
uh terrible, tragic and uh you know
makes me very sad and sad to see it. I
pray for families uh affected uh by
these tragedies. I pray for everybody
because we all should be affected by
these tragedies. Uh uh that you could
just be minding your own business
somewhere and still be killed. uh that
you may give your opinion of your
beliefs and it may cost your life. And
uh it's sad to say, but that's sort of
where we are. Uh I still believe there's
more good than bad in this world, just
like I believe there's more good uh than
bad in this hobby. But uh I pray for
everybody um to get through these
difficult times. And I pray that
uh you know these stories uh are less
prevalent uh than they have seemed uh to
become. So we're going to close out the
show with some uh more closing thoughts
and wrap up uh this week's episode.
Time for our Hobby is the people
Hello, this is Mark Hy and remember the
If you'd like to be the hobby is the
people announcer of the week, do a WAV
or MP3 file and send it to
sportscardnationpc@gmail.com.
