Card Mensches E10 "The Most Vulnerable Parts of The Hobby"

0:00 [Music] Hey, I'm David Watt, and I'm John Newman. Welcome to Card Manchies. Hey, I'm Danny Black at Hans John Newman, we're still Card Manchies. Yeah, no false advertising on this show. This is the real deal. Our body doubles our own strength. So you get the real guys. I think we're like flip-flopped on the screen. It's like sleeping on the wrong side of the bed. I don't know. [Laughter] That's the kind of day. I think that's the kind of day it is.

0:42 Okay, for those of you who don't know, I am in Strong'sville, Ohio at the Strong'sville vintage card collectible showcase, extravaganza, the Corriga's card show in the country. It's like a speakeasy for vintage card collectors. Haven't a blast. What are you doing? I'm not in Strong'sville, Ohio, but wish I was probably. I just came back from Massachusetts last weekend. So I would have loved to go now, and maybe not enough changing in the future, changing. So, you know, we'll see. We're here a lot nicer than I am, because I sent you pictures all day of stuff that stuff here that I had to brag about.

1:26 It meant on cardboard. It was meant on cardboard, so. Today we wanted to tackle something kind of like, what's vulnerable in the hobby. How long's this show? I was about to say, you got a legal pattern. Is it like, you know, a declaration of independence here? I don't know, who you want to go first? Do we want to alternate? How do we want to do it? I would just like to say once again, that I woke up in Baltimore, and I'm now in Ohio, so you can pick any order you want.

2:06 All right, I'll start. I mean, this list can go long. You know, I'll keep it to like top picks, right? I mean, my first pick is going to be, you know, lesser-known grading companies. As the price has come down, Danny, and, you know, an SGC's case turnaround time is great. I think, you know, if you're not in that top four, five even, you know, your days could be numbered. You don't hear. Unless you're in that top. I mean, we could use bad. I don't want to make this the back of show. I think we've talked enough about them, but even a company that was at the top of that list, years ago, is now on the outside looking in.

2:53 And so, and that's, that has a lot of name to it to it, right? So, so I think if you're not in that top at your line of grading companies, I don't know, if you're, you know, maybe you're comfortable with the intake you're getting. You don't have a big budget. Okay, but if you have some overhead, and you're in the building where you're paying. Some rat things could be interesting. In that space. I think it's fair to say that, no more than four major companies around the end of 2023 at the most. I don't think that's going to a far out.

3:35 I don't, I don't know the 105 major companies. Yeah, I mean, we'll always have those fringe companies, right? But I mean, some of them are not going to survive. You know, and sometimes it's not overhead, even, Danny, right, if you're business, right, I set up a car shows. I have a salesman. If I set up a car shows and didn't sell anything, you know, at some point the light bulb's going to go on. And I'm going to say, I'm not to set up at car shows. And I think same thing would, you know, some of these outside grading companies, they're going to just say, we're not getting any intake in what are we doing here.

4:19 And I'm trying to go back to the workforce. What of the smaller ones, and I, and I apologize, I've drawn a total blank on the name. I thought in the last couple weeks, just announced they were going under. If somebody in the chat has it, please feel free to throw it out there. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure that's exactly. Yeah, GMA is still going. I mean, you know, what did they charge like five bucks a slap? People do get their cards, slab by them. You know, what GMA has become is just a protective case, right? I mean, they're not trading or selling at, you know, market levels.

5:03 They're just, hey, I wanted to get my favorite card. I know it's not a time, but I wanted to get it in the, in the slab, you know what I mean? If I was, if I was become a beefed up mag tight. Yeah, and listen, it's hard to start a great in company. I don't, I don't want to pretend that I could start one today, and make it successful, but it's a tough playing field out there, so I think that's a good one to get it started with, you know, because with everything that's going on right now, it might, it might only be three, but by the end of 2023, who knows, but there might be four, good evening, Stephen.

5:43 All right, I got one for you, and this is the total volume, the total number of, one line marketplaces. And this is for both selling and breaking. There's just can't be this much. And this is not per selling or breaking. This is just saying that there's too many marketplaces. If you want to sell and break, you have to choose at this point between 25 or 30. I mean, I think every major city now gets a, now gets a online marketplace. It's like a warning in NFL franchise.

6:23 Well, what breaking, you know, once fanatics does that breaking division, which they've really started to implement, and its emphasis they just Danny, that's going to be key right to survival, especially once they get this, you know, the three or the four licenses, right, the most of the product is going to come out of their, their buildings. And so if you're not in that, you know, I'm not less from them. I'm not saying you still can't survive, but it becomes the degree of survivability becomes more difficult. The terrain gets more treacherous, right? You know, as distribution, do windows and get stin.

7:07 And in some cases, you know, I guess you can add them to the list. The distributors are going to be in trouble. It may not be this year, but in the next two to three years, you may see, is that a, that was on your list? Absolutely. I'm sure our list are similar. No, it's a great one. So, so, maybe we can lump those two together, and we can do the distributors and breakers. Because let's be real, neither one really survives, or survives without the other. Can I say something? Breakers will survive, but not nearly the volume of breakers, not nearly the amount of breakers, not nearly the amount of smaller shady breakers.

7:50 I think that gets way consolidated down. Yeah, I'd appreciate it. No doubt. And maybe that's not a bad thing, right? Everybody in their mom is breaking now, and so, maybe if you last, and then, hopefully maybe if you last bad ones, where they're taking stuff off-screen, and not sending someone their cards, maybe maybe a good one's rise at the top, and the bad ones, get that fatal blow. We'll see. So, one of the distributors, and you also mentioned this on the breakers, is phonetics, basically the reason we're going to list everything on here.

8:34 Well, listen. Yeah, I mean, I'm not the only reason. Let's, you know, let's be realistic, but their major reason, right? They controlled the cards, right? They have the big hand at the poker table, and there's a big boy on the block now. Doesn't, whether you like that or not, is that's the, I'm not saying it's a part of her negative. I'm just saying, you know, you had your pound gorilla. Yeah, they are. And that's what that was. They're playing from the jump. That's when they, you know, all those meetings behind closed doors, me or you weren't in them, obviously, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that they, they now stand.

9:14 I mean, they said they want to sort of take over the industry. They, they weren't shy about that. Michael Rubin was on morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and then he was on the morning one, and he said, "Take care of people, and make it a better place." And maybe they will in some capacities.

9:55 But yeah, they're going to control out of the pieces on the chessboard. That's just the way it's going to be like it or not. So that being said, I agree with you that the distributor is being in trouble, and then to one of the comments will be better, I think, for lower increases for the consumer. I definitely think that will be a better fit. Well, I hope so. But you know, for that, it's going to want to make their dollars back to that they're laying out. Remember, for that, it's as partners with the players associated. They are the players association, and the leagues are both all involved.

10:36 So they have the benefit of having the rights to the cards, the players associations, and the leagues all involved, which gives them a huge advantage. And I know that's what John was talking about, a huge advantage moving forward. So I think moving forward, I'm going to go to my next one, and when John gets back, I'll let him comment. But I think that content creators, how about being honest about that? I think content creators, nothing they're doing away, not that anybody specifically is in trouble. But that, in general, there's far too many content creators.

11:21 I think for what the hobby has now. I think that when you had the amount of people coming into the hobby, and the amount of people that just in content at that level, for a number of years, it really exploded. But the average podcast makes it 12 episodes. A successful podcast makes it 50 to 100 episodes. And you're starting to see a lot of episodes that are getting timed out at that point. So it wouldn't surprise me if you start seeing people just simply not be able to keep up the pace. People that, that, it's just a grind. People that have a life. It's, you know, it's hard. And, yes, look at that.

12:08 That's very funny, Murphy. John, John, I was just talking about how I was saying, I think content creators are in trouble of being lost in 2012. I, yeah, I just went off the air myself. And look, we did it again. For, for five minutes. So, I, apparently I got your hotel Wi-Fi. So, I don't know how that. We don't know how that. No, I, I, I was talking about that. I think content creators are in trouble and then you disappeared. So it was really perfect because you were already, we're already getting rid of them.

12:48 That's great acting. Although that was really unscripted. But, yeah, no contact, I mean, the list goes on. I agree. We've seen that already, right? You go to Apple iTunes. Yeah. It's hard to do a show every week or two shows every week. You know, That's why that's why I really will say anything bad about a content creator. Because I know the work that goes into it. I got it. You got to have passion to do this every week. So, whether I agree with everything anyone says, right? I'm bad, at least for at least for now. But, you know, you go to Apple iTunes and search for its card in the podcast.

13:31 And you'll see a lot of shows. You'll see a lot of shows that, you know, don't exist anymore, right? They don't produce any new episodes and whatnot. And so, you know, that's the way that will happen, no matter the scenario. I think, but now, what the hobby sort of coming down, resetting itself, was easy to get into content creation when everything was turned into gold. It was my this thought, right? Now, now it's harder. And so, I think you'll see less shows. Not going to make me feel good or bad, right?

14:12 It's going to be what it is. And hopefully, hopefully, God willing, I'm sticking around. Well, I think one of the nice things about our show like this is, I call it, you know, baseball cars and sports after dark, like the old HBO show, a text to cab confessions, and it's like, we can just chill out a little bit. You know, we don't need to be so serious and be hardcore. I think one of the nice things about content is you're going to start seeing it change a little bit. And hopefully, people are entertained by shows like this. I am. Well, I hope so, because I wasn't sure if you were on the show or watching the show, it almost, you know.

14:58 So, what's in the drink? What do we have in tonight? It's just a beer tonight. After hours after hour. You know, he was sure to call this, matches after after hours, but, yeah, kids drink responsibly or don't drink, because you're not legal age. More mental rules. I think that's a new plural. I think that's what we're called in Australia. What's there? I haven't feeling good. I can't imagine. I don't know why you're going to have a crap in me in a pouch. I feel this coming off.

15:39 You're wishes by command. So, Logan, we're talking about things that are vulnerable in 2023. What do you think? Logan, let us know definitely in the comments. Can I give my next one, Jon? I have another one. I have another one. Go ahead if you're ready. No, go ahead. Go ahead. I just did. You know, selling platforms. That's the low hanging fruit. We've seen star stock. No one talks about them anymore. People have taken kind of their cards out of star stock. Dibs, dibs announced their their their defonct.

16:22 And I think you're going to see more selling platforms, especially the nine big ones. If you will, the nine what knots and loops and other ones that I just can't compete on that sort of level. Comcy is fine. You know, you're going to have the big players in the selling platform space. And then if you're not in that big player room, you're going to have to really scratch and claw to stay afloat. Right. You know, My slab state Dave, you know, Mac Green. He did this is done a great job with that day.

17:03 You know, they're now 2% from 1%. I have a lot of stuff I'm there. I'm not going to lie. It seems to have slowed down a little. I still just still doing fine. I'm not putting them on this list to watch and be worried about. But I think they had a bigger market share before then they do now. So I think that's where that 2% came in from 1%. Again, I don't want to speak for Matt. But, you know, they're probably, I think the goal of my slabs initially was to build that side up and then sell to somebody else. Not saying that can't still happen. But, you know, my half to happen for the viability of them to stay around.

17:46 I think they're going to be alright whether they sell or they don't. But, you know, they're not spoken of in the same way. You know, when we've seen PWCC make huge strides with their auction site. That's kind of hurt. Somebody's other selling platforms. I know not all these selling platforms are auction sites either. But, wherever people buy cars is the selling platforms. Whether that's eBay, WCC, Comp see my slabs and those are what not. Those are all selling platforms. They may have different M.O.s right, Motors, I've already put their all for acquisition of cars.

18:26 So some of those guys that are in that big room, with the big boys, they're going to really have to be creative to kind of, you know, survive. And, you know, I had Ivan on that. the Jewish aim was bugged this week. It belongs with the ISO commerce. They're doing pretty well. Kind of a different way of doing things, that's my point. I think you're going to have to be creative. And you can't just put it for sales side, hey, our selling platform's open, put your cards on our side. It's, it's got to be more creative than that to survive. When you left the room, I really don't like being on the wrong side of the bed.

19:09 Well, you fit in the world as right now. Well, I think it was better the other way. You think it was better the other way? Yeah. I don't know. We'll try it this way for a little bit. So I completely agree with you 100%. My feeling is that we have to look at calls and effect. Golden is coming out with their entire platform. PWCC has stepped up there again. eBay is getting serious and fanatics is getting serious. I mean, this has their own life is going to have the right. Who's for like they said, Danny, they're not just doing breaks. This is not just a breaks channel. They don't want to be.

19:49 There'll be some breaks on it, but this going to be more, more to it than that. So, we're in the early innings of this new terrain, if you will, I'll call it right this new landscape of the hobby. Again, you know, fanatics does not have the basketball and football licensing yet. They're trying to get it sooner. But the recent news, we don't have to rehash that, but you know, that's the big, the big news story lately is, hey, we can sell to us. We'll just take your talent. That's probably even worse more than what we were going to pay you to begin with. So, fanatics is not, you know, they're playing by the rules, but they're being cut through.

20:35 Clearly, George Steinbrinner somehow is a special advisor at fanatics. I don't know how they figured that out. All right, I'm going to throw this up there because I had, I had this on my list, and vulnerable is the key word here. I don't think they're all going out of business, but I don't know that they're all going to survive. It is a very financially intensive business, which was pointed out in the chat, and they do physically hold the product. And it's a lot of insurance, and it's, it's, I, what vulnerable is the key term for me? So, I don't know which ones I'm not going to give a name because I'm not that smart, and I don't have that much information, but, but I don't want to, all the folks.

21:20 Ziggy made a point with my slabs. They have low overhead because they don't hold the card. And that's exactly 100%. I don't think I'll add to that. He's not wrong. He's 100% right. That definitely helps. That's why I said my slabs. I don't see myself going away. I just think, there, you know, there might be less cards on their site, right, as people pull them off and put them right. I have great cards on my slabs. If I decide to pull all my listing, I mean the cards are here, but if I put a listing off my slabs and then list them on another space in the sense that the living is in business, right? So, I think their market share may get smaller, and they're not the only way. I'm not predicting that they're going to be defogged. I just think it's changing. Where they were, six months ago to where they are now, probably a little different trees people.

22:18 Absolutely. So, on the vault, I just want to be fairies that I do have items involved, so just for full disclosure. Maybe I've just admitted to being a full, but there are times where I do use a vault, it is usually more for the ability to move it into an auction quickly for full disclosure. When I buy items, I typically end up bringing them home, but I do want to share that. All right. My turn to you, you're going to get more on that. I just wanted one quick comment with vaults, right? It's pretty simple. I think people want to have their cards in hand, right? Who doesn't like looking at their cards, pointed out someone comes over.

23:04 In my case, you do a show, you want to put it in your show cases. I have cards behind me that probably could be enough vault, but they're behind me. So, I agree. Vaults are sort of overrated. I did a show about vaults and I have a quick answer. And I said, "My vault, I'm sitting in my vault while doing a show." So, I'm in the vault as well. So, yeah, but they do have a purpose, right? People use them there. You know, eBay's got one now, PWCC's got one there for their full card. So, they're viable aspects of the hobby. For me, I like to have my cards here, I want to save deposit box, but even that I rather have my cards here.

23:54 Well, my cards are all over the place, which is part of the reason. If you're just joining us, I am in Cleveland, Ohio at a card share right now. Well, I'm not right now, right now, I'm in my hotel room. It's in the penthouse suite, by the way, John. If you can't tell. Nice, live as large man, the Argentine church. If anybody else has ever been to Strongville, if you're at the Strongville show, definitely want me now. I'd love to go home with you. And I shout out to Derek, who said he's a fan of our show and came up to me today. So, I told him, "There you go." Absolutely. Is it my turn?

24:36 Yes, it is. I came up with a seven-minute. Okay. So, this might be controversial. I think that super-sure print and whatever you want to call it, manufacturer's scarcity, or numbered cards without autos, in higher numbers, out of 1,000 out of 2,500 out of 500, that a lot of those products are maybe never going to quite recover to where they were. And I think they're vulnerable of continuing to go down. I think there's people getting more selective in what they collect.

25:17 I don't know that the, especially when you don't know the print quantities from some of the manufacturers, I think that the turn is going to start turning people off. I agree with you, but let me just speak to like, "I was at the Springfield Massachusetts show." And I can't count on both my hands. How many people are like, "Hey, can I see that card?" Like, "I can be an autograph card or an autograph jersey card." And I pull it out and they look at, "Oh, it's not number." If I had a dollar for every person, it's, "Oh, that's not number." That's not number. That's not number. And that's just that mic table.

25:58 I mean the quad box with three other dealers. And I heard people look, "Oh, that's a number." Then I said it wrong. If it has an auto or has a patch, I think it'll still sell. Yeah, you're just talking about the base card that I know. The base, base numbers, no nothing. What about, okay, I get that more now that you clarify. What about, and you prospect probably more than me now, as I prospect less. What about colored rookie cards, the first moment? I'm not even talking the auto one. I'm just talking, like, you think that goes down with the ship too. What's the first rule you're not supposed to breathe into the mic?

26:39 And I just did a big deep sign to the mic. I really co-john. I feel bad for all these people who might be, you know, listening or replaying this and listening to the audio. There are certain guys who don't get an auto in their first spot. And I understand that there is a little bit of a venn diagram of first moments and stuff like that. But I just don't, I don't think they hold their value relative to other cards. I just see them coming much more common. Yeah, if that's a hot take, you know, I don't know. I don't think you're far off. I'm not vehemently disagreeing with you.

27:21 But I just think that people have sort of been brainwashed. Like if the card doesn't have those two little gold numbers on it, it's, you know, it's no good. And I don't subscribe to that theory. I'm still a base card guy, right? So, you know, I agree, but not, I'm not 100% on board. I don't think you're wrong, but I'm not, I vote for you, but not because of that platform. Well, I'll take that coming from you. I appreciate it. I will say on a separate note, since we're talking about this, I broke a couple packs of top stadium club Chrome.

28:06 What eight gorgeous set of cards? Stadium club is one of my favorite sets or designs I should say. I love stadium club, but stadium club Chrome to me was next one. Yeah, no, it's, it's sharp. It's almost like they should just, that should be stadium clubs. And they don't even use, don't even use the Chrome, right? I'll just another reason to make one of the 35 base club products that they do, right? But it is beautiful, you know, for all we can bag on tops, especially in years past, right? Black and days are called design or lack of design or innovation.

28:46 They've really, always got sort of, I don't want to say always, but most of the time they've got stadium club right, even the nine Chrome stadium club, and now they add in the Chrome edition, and it just enhances an already pretty good looking card. So yeah, I'm, I'm on board. I know that had nothing to do with our discussion. I just meant to tell you that the other day when I opened some packs. And who's card? It might be the Julio Rodriguez base card this year. If somebody seen it, please, please tell me if that's the one I'm talking about. Where he's got a swing in the scoreboard and the known aeronautos, gorgeous.

29:29 I just, I haven't enjoyed opening a pack of cards aesthetically that much in the long time. So yeah, it, I don't open as much new stuff as I used to, as I say at Nazium on my shows. But I, you know, if I go to Walmart and there's a stadium club or stadium club Chrome somehow, it makes its way into my shopping card, you know, right next to the chips of OI cookies. So, to necessities, but at least for me. But yeah, and, you know, I'd love to see, like I said, stadium club Chrome sort of be stadium club. They're probably not going to do it because then that means that's one less product that they can release, right?

30:14 You know, Ziggy's comment on this too with, you know, is, is, is fanatics vulnerable with all the revenue and growth, expectation, great, great comment, right? They want to honder times to have me. I'm just going to throw it off your list. I'm not going to have a list. I, I just have it in my head. But it's a great point. They're spending a lot of money to try to accomplish what they're trying to accomplish, right? When I heard a hundred times the hobby, I, you know, went back in my seat like that's, that's, that's big. That's, uh, a big actually. Then I, I, didn't I, didn't I, didn't I, didn't I, didn't I, didn't I, didn't I, didn't I hit that, if you asked me, right? It was, it was a, it was a ten times or a hundred times.

30:54 Either one. I mean, I'm so big now, right? I don't know if you hit either even even the ten times when you know, when, you know, no one knows an exact number how many people. I've been changing by the minute. So I'm just left the hobby ten seconds ago and probably two people came, that that's a fluid number. But there's millions of people in the hobby to ten times that, you know, they, I don't know, they didn't say I didn't hear like, how soon they want to do that. But it was a, it was a two to three years ago that a five years ago, and a ten year ago, I don't, I, I will say the short of those years is that go is obviously the degree of difficulty comes up and, and they're going to have their own internal scoreboard, right?

31:37 Exiggy says, and if they don't hit their own, they're probably not going to come out and say, yeah, we missed our marks or we fell for shorter expectations. But they you know, internally they'll know, hey, this is not where we wanted to be. But you were making a point before that was so true. You were talking about earlier about the fact of fanatics. It has the league is investors and fanatics and, you know, they all have invested interest in each other's success. You know, when, when you look at this gone forward, you know, that plays into it also. Yeah, I mean, I mean, listen, when you, if, if me and you own a company, right, me and you had just have to be happy, right?

32:22 Or, you know, if me and you and other people are now, you know, now we got to make ten people happy, right? And obviously with the players and the players association, now you're talking about thousands of athletes have to be happy. Then when you add in the NL products, right, the Vominary Diversity, athletes, male and female, that aren't even in the leagues. Yeah, on the professional level, they're at the table too selling their likeness. They need to be happy. Now, they're probably happy more happy because they're probably getting that money sort of upfront. Hey, here's what, here's here's what we're paying you.

33:05 We need you to sign a thousand of these cards, right? So they're kind of, they're taking care of upfront, but there's just thousands of owners now in these in, in fanatics. And so, you know, we hear Michael Rubin, Michael Rubin, he's the face and the majority owner, but he's not the only owner. And don't forget, they've taken investment money, right? Renture Capitalists has bought in. So now you answer to them. You answer to them, right? How many people lost money when top spacked in, don't get to see the light a day? But that was people investing. Do we get a good benefit? Like when I watch MLB in that work now, they have a baseball card show on the weekends.

33:49 You know, that never happened before. I mean, that's how much. Yeah, they're doing, they do a card segment now. And I think that's what you're talking about on MLB. They're opening packs. You've got who, and I like this. I like this part. You got Julio Rodriguez doing top scrimmer shows, right? Yes, sort of lost. There were days when players did do some of that. Those scrimmer shows. And then they kind, they went away from that. Now they sort of bring in. But why, why is Julio Rodriguez doing a top scrimmer shows? It's very easy answer. Because he owns part of the company, whatever slice that is.

34:30 So he's do, he's do, you know, when he does a pizza hot commercial, he probably doesn't know own pizza hot pizza hot pizom, whatever that commercial fee is. And in a part ways after the, the, you know, the commercial shot, it's different ball game with with trading card now. These guys already own part of the pie, even past the commercial. When that, when that Julio Rodriguez commercial and the director, you know, cut, we got everything. Thanks everybody. Packed up, appreciate everyone's hard work. That's not the end of the story. Julio Rodriguez and other players, all the players, are still getting revenue.

35:11 They're at the equity table. So the landscape has vastly changed. And you've got a lot of people that need to be, you know, happy. And, you know, this is a 20 year deal. Has it never been really officially announced, but it's, it's unofficially a 20 year licensing deal. A lot can go a lot to go wrong in 20. A lot can go wrong in 20. I think going any direction at any time in this hobby. Yeah. So just think at 20, I don't know why I'm sure there's reasons money being number one, right? But why you would sign a 20 year deal with anybody and lock yourself in, you know, to that left.

35:59 I know when you take your wedding vows, you say, to death, you was far. And some people get little voice in their head is like, you want to do this, right? And that's not 20 years. That potentially could be 40, 50 years. So why you would, you know, I don't know, maybe not the greatest analogy, but 20 years is a long time in this hobby, especially, especially now. And so, you know, good for them, but man, like we just said, a lot can happen in 20 years. Maybe there's buyers remorse on traumatics part, maybe there's buyers remorse on the players. What is three years? I told you I was right about losing content creators.

36:45 Let's see, I always know that one, that one we got for 2023. I also predict though, returned for 2023. So I think we'll see John back here in a second. But I had one more, and I hope he let's me throw it out here. I'll let me have my show. But I want him to hear this. So at the top's conference, Fanatics already announced that some of the cards are going to be discontinuous. Certain sets of cards are going to be discontinuous. Vulnerable parts of the hobby, more sets of cards, more sports, more I think it's possible even more base.

37:31 I definitely think that that is definitely an area of vulnerability without a doubt. So, you know, for me, and I don't know about you guys, one of the reasons I brought up the stadium club, is I think that other sets could be vulnerable in 2023. Other sports, they already trimmed down some of the baseball sets, but I think as the license is shift, and as things move forward, you could see every manufacturer trimming down their sets. I guess for our product. That was my comment.

38:12 I think I'm back, but this wasn't on my original list. My internet, my Wi-Fi, I think, is going to be as apparently very vulnerable tonight for some of my strange reasons. But we got our first 80 degree day here in Central New York and apparently Wi-Fi is the first thing to go. So my apologies, but I know you're good without me, so maybe even better. I didn't even notice. That's what my wife said. This is like the same.

38:53 Where have I heard that before? This is after dark. So I brought up the idea at the top conference, fanatic's already announced that they're trimming down some sets. And then, you know, whether it's more sets or whether it's, you know, a panini cutting down some of their sets. There are says, I think there's too many sets in the hobby as a whole. And. Production for 2023 John will be replaced by the machine. I'm perver. I would, when will I be better off? What is it? I apologize. Like this is like my internet's been spotty before, but did I take the cake?

39:35 Yeah, that's a lot of. So I was asking if there's any sets in anybody liked or or will read this. He'd gone by any manufacturer because I thought that was a lot of vulnerable sets. Yeah, I think cops for natics did a pretty good job with that initial list. You know, you know, we like to criticize them right? I'm I'm upside up for the I can be critical of them. I think they I think it needed to be done. And I think the initial list was fairly accurate right? The top's gallery is a joke of mine that you know, I like to go to. It's easy to do right?

40:15 I mean, times you go to Walmart, you know, top's gallery is there. You can you know, put your finger on it. You got dust. It just collects dust. It's not the worst looking product. It's just price point. It's too high. So they really had a choice right. Kind of do what they did, which is, which is next set or go cheap with it. They didn't want to go cheap, but it's so they next it. And, you know, it's going to be interesting. They're still going to make plenty of product right? They got the license in. You're going to take advantage of that. The real question is going to be what are those new products right? What are those replacement products going to be and will they be better right?

40:57 Then the plate then the product set. You know, think of it like players right? You know, these ten or twelve products all that's sent down to the miners to. Supposedly never be heard of of again, they're now. They're going to call ten or twelve new players up these new products. How do they perform and and do they stay in the big leagues or does. Finatics, amen. We should bring this back again. I know we caught it, but maybe we should revisit it right? So it is that's going to be the fun part. Is you know, seeing, you know, what what sticks and maybe.

41:37 You know, what gets brought back from the dead, you know, like Jason. And, uh, to your point, I haven't seen many people. Yeah, I haven't seen many people argue with the list. No, most people, most people like tweet in it like two toes. Most people like, yeah, that makes sense. It's like the couple that you know should have broken up and then you hear they finally broke on me. Yeah, it's about time. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, all right. Did you have anything else on your list? No, I just closed with kind of a blanket statement, Danny. I think this list is long as we both just went went through and it could be longer if we wanted to spend even more time.

42:22 But we're not going to. I think everything is vulnerable, right? I know that's kind of a cop out final blanket statement, but the hobby is changing by by the week right by the day. So everything is potentially vulnerable from contact creation to companies to see what we've seen CEO step down. We've seen CEO is her vulnerable in 2020. Right? That's a great one. Yeah, they're vulnerable because right there the first one, it's like, it's like managers and sports managers and coaches, right? The team stinks right they're not out there playing necessarily, but you can't fire the whole team so the manager or coach gets fired, right?

43:09 That's what a CEO is. Now don't get me wrong. CEO probably even has more to do with the how the company runs and maybe even a baseball man. A baseball manager does and they are accountable. But CEOs are going to be in the hot seat when sales figures are released or quarterly reports come out and numbers aren't that right? And if you're Michael Rubin, you're not going to fire yourself, but if someone else is beneath you and your disappointed in something that comes across your desk, you've suddenly become vulnerable. Not Michael Rubin, but the people below him. So, you know, I think CEOs, I think you're seeing companies kind of partner up to survive.

43:56 I think that trend continues. I think you know what becomes vulnerable and another thing. I know I said I was going to add, I think investment money, right? I think people are going to be a lot more careful. I think that's already tried up. Yeah, I think people are not going to pour me. It's still going to happen. It's not going to like, it's not a water faucet and you turn it off. I think it's just going to be less and the people are going to be more like, hey, do I do I want to invest in this company? I can lose. I can lose this $12 million. I can lose this billion dollars. Whatever that amount is. Well, what else could I put it in? There's other businesses besides, you know, that's what I remember.

44:38 I can put money in. So, it's going to be interesting. But the blanket statement I was going to issue and then I went off on the thing was I think everybody at the end of the day, I think everybody is potentially vulnerable. I think it can happen. We've seen some announcements in the last couple weeks that really are sort of surprising. And I think that's trying to make continue. So I think I think everybody is potentially vulnerable. As they say, we're all David. Yeah. Well, just don't get on the aisle. Day to day is okay. Just don't be on the 60 day or longer out for season.

45:21 You know, it would be out for season. On a slightly more serious note, this is where we play our commercial for SGC. I'm at the Strongestville Show. They were unable to make it to the weather in Florida. Just thoughts and prayers to everybody down there and hope that everybody safe. And, you know, just thinking about everybody there. They do a great job and just, you know, family and family and safety are number one. Experience, quality, consistency. And the quickest turnaround times in the grading industry. How to partner with SGC grading. Check them out at www.goscc.com. For more than 30 years, Robert Edward Ockchains has been the nation's premier auction house, specializing in sports memorabilia and trading cards.

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46:56 But I want to piggyback real quick, far to getting hit hard weather and did, and now they have some flooding issues. I have family and four of all today. It's not a good thing down there. It's bigger than cards, right? There's people and lives that are impacted. So wishing everybody safety and wellness in Florida and hopefully they get through that and back to normal seeing as quick as possible. Absolutely. And the most fun. Welcome to the failure segment. We're John and Danny, share their picks short to go wrong.

47:36 Alright, so I'm going to put this up on the screen here. It's early enough in the baseball season. I think we can still do this in college beginning of the season picks. I just picked the, what is that? The top five on the odds, feel free to take this. This is bogus. I knew you might have a problem. And so I went to an actual sports book site to get the numbers. This was not made up by me. I'm guessing you might take the field on this one. Oh, definitely taking the field here. There's a team that's missing from this list.

48:17 Somehow, you know, the match, you know, I mean, how about Tampa Bay? With their start. That's insane. To start a season the way they are. I mean, they're going to be hard to pick against. By the way, I will, though. But, you know, I don't hate the Tampa Bay race, but I mean, maybe they shouldn't have started that high. I mean, because it just can only get worse, right? When you don't lose. But, yeah, how are the match to mine? Like, I don't, you know, I don't think the Dodgers. I think you could switch the Dodgers in the match.

48:57 I don't think the Dodgers of the Dodgers of the last few years. Do you think injuries play into that? Well, let's be fair. For the match with Berlin, do you mean? And yes. All right. Yeah. Sure. Inters half the play, you know, we got Steven. I don't know if he's still in here. He'll tell you injury, a big, a big factor, right? But Berlin, this is a minor one. And David Robinson is a capable close. And so, sure, does it hurt not having arguably one of the best closers in major league baseball? No doubt for me to sit here and say anything other than that is this in January.

49:37 But this is a very good team. And they're minorly listen, I'm two miles away from the Triple A team. I just watched a game that was like nine, nothing a third inning. They called off the Dodgers. There's four guys that Triple A. They could be in the big leagues today. A matter of fact, I will say this, the Syracuse match. Maybe not on the list of on the screen could beat some of the major league teams that are not on the screen. And they're not even in the big league with the match. So I'm being a home winner. We're John and he shared their picks short to go wrong. Well, I'm going to die on that hill with the match.

50:20 I know it's a homework pick. I know it, but I feel good about that team. I mean, maybe it's the Wolpa in effect for how many years. It was just like, we'll see what happens next year. Or the Wolpa still alive. Or the Wolpa's get arrested. Or they're making a baseball kick out the Wolpa's. And then thankfully they decided to sell. And a guy by the name of Cohen came in on a white horse and saved. Save Matt's fans in the franchise. Speak out shout out to the Washington commanders. No ownership.

51:00 All right. Yes, I see. I jinxed them. I think credit for that loss. I don't appear in the box score. But that's because of what that's because of me tonight. Here we go. The Reds just lost. The Reds just lost. Yeah. So things are vulnerable. The Reds win streak. Well, you know that they weren't going on 162. But it was fun. I was hoping. I mean, you know, when it when that happens, you don't even have to be a fan of that team. You're like, I keep winning, right? Or is there not in your, well, in your case, you're. I was about to say there.

51:41 There are in the Orioles division. So now with the, with the unbalanced schedule, you know, being gone. It's 13 times, not 19 times. So it's a little bit fair for those of us that plan tough divisions like the analytics to the AL, so. Okay. So now I'm going to actually look at the number here with my pick. Because I'm a big brace and used to work for the braves, love the braves, the braves, and my national league team. I know they're in the midst of vision. This is not personal. So I would take the braves. But that's 650. Scares me.

52:22 I got to tell you, I really like what Tampa Bay is doing. And, and, you know, all you got to do is get in the tournament. And I think they're, I think they're, they're with the lead they have, you know, in the organization they have, it's going to be hard. Not, not deserve to not have a chance to get the wild card. It's going to be hard to blow that. So I'm going to take Tampa Bay plus eight, 50. And I'm also going to vote Mike, as my favorite comment to the evening. So I will say, and Danny is great. I will concur. I did win. I'm going to be the best guy in Syracuse with a Brooklyn doctor.

53:04 So I'm going to hang my hat on that award. But I'm going, I'm going, I'm going match. Are we picking like a team for me, please? Is that how we're going to do this? No, it's just picking a world series team. A winner. Yeah, I'm going match. And I'm not going to take a bay. I'm going to go and I hope I'm wrong. Because I don't really like this team. But I'm just going with what my got. I'm going to go with the with the straws. They just think they're loaded. They add Jose. A bra. They didn't even need Jose. They just went out and paid them. And they come play over here too. Right. How talker is really developed into the MVP team.

53:46 You and I are very very high. Yeah, then I thought he was. I got a lot of his cards. So I'm going to start to come out of the darkness and into my into the light and into my showcases. So I'm going to ask shows and mats. I really don't. I don't really root for the asshows. Truth be told. But, you know, I'm going to pick them. I think that they have all the horses to to get there again. I hate to say it. But again. Right. And so, you know, I was rooting for the fillies last year. Because, you know, I figure that might be sacralidious to met fan. But hey, we're not going to win it.

54:27 What better yet to say hey, at least a team from our division. One the world series, right? And you know, we, I know that's old news with the whole banging the garbage cans and the buzzers and the signs and all that. But, you know, some of those guys are still there. So I cannot the root form. So, but I'm going to, I got to pick what my gut says. I'm going to go asshows and, and met, which somehow didn't, the asshows made this list and the met didn't. Well, I don't know how that happened. But, then must have been in the pressure meeting. I don't know. Yeah, I think you caught him off.

55:08 I think this list is doctored. I think like a cut baseball. I think you cut the met off the list. So I sent you a George bread autograph in a big birthday. Yeah, I, when you come in into the dugout at the end of the evening and the arm checks your list. He's going to find out that you, you've messed with this little, little puns, arm I lost. Yeah, there's some spider tack on your list here that the met sir are not on it. But, man, you know, it's great, you know, I heard you say the other day it's great baseball's back. I feel the same way. You know, there was, again, we go back to the willp on years. We, I didn't look forward to the baseball season in the same vein as I do now.

55:52 So, but it's going to be fine. It's early. Do every early. The met's will, if we do that list in three months, the met's would be on it. So maybe we have to revisit that then to make the world right and just. But, like you said, I went with the fields since in that on the list. You just wanted to met. It didn't matter what the number was. It didn't matter where they were. Listen, I will say this in my defense playing lawyer here. There's plenty of years I would never have picked the met's because I knew from watching them and knowing what. You know, this, I think they have, you know, for the same reason I picked the assures, right? They have enough weapons.

56:32 I'm picking the met's for the same reasons. Totally unbiased. As much as I can. This was fun. I was tired. You got me gone. You got me gone. I could do two more hours, but I'm not gone to. Yeah, my internet won't. It doesn't have it in it. I do. When my internet doesn't. All right. Well, John, this was a blast. In two more weeks, remember everybody we are. Every other Friday on the live broadcast and every other Monday on the audience. And that's on the audience. And that's on the sports card nation.

57:12 For those for those listening and in out sports ball and for those listening. On audio podcasts just know that we do this live on Friday nights and love the. Let's see in the chat room and back to with you and talk about some of your comments and being a record as well. All right. Well, I'm I'm going to go enjoy all my vintage. I'm going to enjoy all my vintage cards in here in Strongzville. See you, John. I'm headed to the vault. [laughter] [Music]