WEBVTT
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Sports Guard Nations, Hobbies, the People, Wheely News and Interviews.
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It's yon number one soul. Sports Gardations hobby is the people.
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Sports Gardation.
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What is up? Everybody? Welcome to three eighty six, Episode
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three eighty six of Sports Cardination. As always, glad to
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be with you as we man seven years now, as
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we approach year eight, and wouldn't have guessed that when
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I started, quite frankly, to be honest with you, and
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I want to thank our great sponsors that make this possible,
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Iron Sports Cards, Sports Collectors, Digest Hobby, Hotline, Upper Deck,
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But more importantly you out there right Without you, we
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don't exist. While I do talk to my self sometimes
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I don't really enjoy doing it. So you out there
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make what I do worthwhile and enjoyable, and not an
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episode goes by. I don't realize that and and know that,
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so thank you, all right, Part two of our Great
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Conversation with Chris. Chris McGill Card Ladder, Lacrossover just a
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great guy, a very important guy in the hobby. But
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he won't tell you that. He's a pretty modest and
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humble dude, and that's a good trait to have. But
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at the same time, he gives you the straight scoop
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as well, so he's not a word minser. I appreciate
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that about him, and we continue our conversation as I
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break these up into two part episodes. So enough of me,
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let's get this show underway.
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And that's what when I'm thumbing through my collection, I mean,
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I was just thinking, and I wonder how it works
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for you. What are all the things that run through
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my head when I get to a certain card, you know,
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and I I like, for example, I could go through
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my shoebox right now, and I know the the acquisition
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story for all of it. You know, I know I
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got this card at this show and I got it
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from this guy, or I won this on an eBay
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auction and it's nothing, it's no great story, but I
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still remember it. You know. I know where it came from.
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I know when I got it. I know what I
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was thinking. I And sometimes that can be fun too,
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you know if I won the auction because I place,
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you know, a big bid at the end, and it
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was exciting. You know. It's like there's a story to
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every card. There's an acquisition story, and then sometimes there's providence,
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like I might get to know who owned it before me,
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and how long it wasn't there collect and what it
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meant to them to let it go to me, and
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stuff like. The more the more connection I can get,
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the more the card connects me to different meaningful moments
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in my life. You know, usually those are the ones
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that I sit there and enjoy for a couple of
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seconds longer.
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That And you know that even multiple cards are tied
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to each other. It maybe I got this this and
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this card these three cards in that deal, and it
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might even be different sports, but it was just from
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that dealer.
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Uh we you know, we ni we.
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Haggled, we negotiated on price, or I traded this and
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added some cash. You know, all those things are just
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every card tells and multiple cards might tell the same
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story if it's a bigger deal as well. So there's
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just so many. It's it's like looking you know, you
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see those detective shows and they got all the suspects
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and the stuff on the wall and all the like
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strings connecting all all the leads and stuff. I look
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at cards sort of like that, but instead of suspects,
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they're their their cards, right, and people behind the cards.
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So that's how that's how I when I look through
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my stuff that I remember. Usually I'm getting older Chrys,
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so it's get a little trigger. But generally I remember
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the show or even the year, like how long I've
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had some When it comes to PC stuff, I really
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don't move it. It's once I own it, I kind
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of keep it so I know kind of what show,
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what year? You know, I went to Dallas, I remember
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picking that up there now, those sorts, And I think
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we all, I think most of us do that, and
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I think we appreciate what we have more when we
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think of more along those lines, uh than than than not?
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If you will so, so.
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Card Ladder, you know you've come a long way. Uh
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you know, I know you you were Josh and Christina
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and you know you've like so where you are today
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from from when it started? Like how how do you
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explain that? Like I know it's hard to do it quickly,
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but just like did you envision where you are today
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when you kind of I'm assuming not, but I'll ask you,
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you know, from when you you know, built that thing
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to where you are today? Like how kind of described
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that evolution?
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You will?
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Yeah, we just had a hope and a dream that
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you know, we could carve a little space for ourselves
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in the industry, and and I think the timing was right,
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and you know, the mix of people was right. The
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people that I work with at Card Letter, Josh and Christina,
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my brother Nick, and are the members of our research team.
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You know, it all just kind of it all sort
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of just fortuitously came together. And you need all of
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it at least, I think, you know, all of it
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has to click. And then once we joined the Collector's
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Family Tree and they helped us out, they infused us
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with some resources, and the research team that we have now,
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like several of them came over from other branches of
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the Collector's Company Tree and they were willing to let
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those employees come join us. And so, you know, there
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was a there was a lot of lucky things that
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happened to get to where it was. But we always
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held out the hope that you know, we'd still you know,
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we started this almost six years ago, and we always
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held out the hope that we'd still be here six
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years from now, sustaining ourselves, working in the hobby, you know,
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helping hopefully to make collecting a little bit better for people,
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make the experience a little more enjoyable or at least
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help out in some way, you know. So, I know
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it's not always enjoyable. Sometimes, Card Ladder, it can be
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an obstacle to a negotiation because there's a comp out
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there that people don't like and it's in the app
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and they get upset, you know.
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So.
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But but overall, hopefully we're providing information and even if
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everybody doesn't love us all the time, that hopefully, on balance,
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we're helping people collect better, make make more responsible decisions
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and so on.
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Now, I'll make this thing. You tell me if I'm
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right or you agree with it. I think we're seeing
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more vintage collectors use the tool and the analyst this
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than than ever before. Would would that be an accurate statement?
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Probably? Yeah?
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Probably?
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Yeah, I think that's fair.
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All right.
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The one complaint that I hear from vintage collectors, and listen,
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I'm one myself. I'm not necessarily a complainer, but I
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get the point. I've heard this statement. Tell me like right, wrong?
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Where you where? What you think about it? A lot
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of vintage collectors will use VCP. They kind of, you know,
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weigh all the scale, weigh all the sales and come
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up with like a an average and a lot of
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people say card Ladder doesn't really do that, it really
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just takes.
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The last one.
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I don't like that. And then this again, this is
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just a complaint or a commentary debt I hear. And
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now want you know, now, when I was gonna talk
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to you, I wanted to ask you, like for if
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you've heard that. I'm sure you probably have, and like,
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what's the answer, you know, what's the response to that feedback?
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If I don't want to say.
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It's great feedback, we have heard it, and uh, you know,
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to the extent that we can give that experience to
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vintage collectors, I'd love to, but but it always comes
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to trade offs, you know, it always comes to trade offs.
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And I also want to pay respect to v c P,
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which has been here since the two thousands, right, so
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that's a great product and to be compared to it
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is great.
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And say, yes, Christen, to be fair, and I don't
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mean to cut you off, but they have their they
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have their things too, Like I I can tell you
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you know, we're not going to do that, but like, of.
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Course that's totally fair, that's totally fair. And so you
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know the fact that that there's options right that people
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like the way that they do it better, especially like
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on the vintage tide, because what's that what that's getting at.
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It's a lot of vintage and pre war collectors take
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tradition of pricing things where let me take the average
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of the last ten, you know. Or I had a guy,
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a vintage collector, come to our booth at the West
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Coast Card Show and he had noteped a piece of paper.
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He said, I used card Letter and I wrote down
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the last twenty sales of the card in the grade.
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And I was like, really, how far back does that go?
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And he's like, well, I was using your database and
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I went back, you know, two years, and so I
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was like, wow, okay, Well this guy's looking at comps
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from twenty twenty four and he's taken an average and
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he wants to look at all of them, and he's
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and what he's doing, and what card letter is pretty
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good at is that, you know, if you know a
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card that you're looking for, you type it in, you
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type in the grade that you're looking for. You can
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isolate the results to only that grade, and then you
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have the picture of all of them. And so what
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he did was He wrote down all the different prices
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from the last two years, and then he wrote down
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notes about each of the images. So you know, he said,
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this one's well centered, this one was off centered, this
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one had a pinhole, et cetera, et cetera. He had
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notes for all the different ones, and so he was
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able to really dig in and like he looked at
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each sale in depth. He looked at what marketplace it
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came from. You know, he was it was in depth research.
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And I could tell he enjoyed it too, you know,
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he was. He was getting an enjoyment out of it.
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But you know, for somebody who might say, well, you
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know what, I don't. You know, I just wanted to
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just give me. If I want to look at the
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average of the last ten, give me the average last ten.
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If I want to look at the average the last five,
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give me the average last five. And there's just not
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a really clean way to do that right now. And
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we could build that, or we could talk about it,
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we could have internal discussions about it, but there are tradeoffs.
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There are tradeoffs that come with that. So like our
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sales history feature, for example, it's very simple, there's no
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extra bells and whistles from the immediate presentation. It's a
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search bar. It's a search bar into hundreds of millions
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of historical sales and you can just go. You type
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in what you want, you start getting your results, you
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start filtering them, and then you can start adding on.
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If you want to click and look at a sale,
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if you want to look at the population, we'll tell you. You know,
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you're one click away from seeing the population of this
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card and all the different grading companies using the universal
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population you know feature that lets you see this so
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many in PSA, this so many and BBG this is
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how many in SGC, et cetera. So there's lots of
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features that kind of get built onto it. But you
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know it's like we think about it, like we hear
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the feedback, we think about it. We take it into consideration.
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If we get a lot of it, you know, if
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like twenty people come up to our booth at the
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National this year especially, you really have to say it
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to Josh. Okay, you got to say it to Josh
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because he is the mastermind in the architect who is
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the developer. He's our lead developer, he's our only development.
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So you know, if he hears it from a decent
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number of people that he had really liked the ability
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to like, if I'm looking at a PSA four of
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a specific card, I'd like the ability to push a
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button and say, you know, show me the average of
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the last ten, show me the average of the last five.
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You know, if he heard that from a few people,
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he'd probably build it. He'd probably build it. So you know,
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that's that's but you know we'd have to discuss it,
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like if we do that, where do we put that button?
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What real estate does it take up on the screen?
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Do we want to add that feature? Like is that
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going to help people? Is that going to confuse people?
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And to hear from one of our great sponsors.
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But sports Cardination will be right back after that.
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Iron Sports Cards is your number one source for all
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your PSA and other grading submissions. Their elite status improves
244
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turnaround times. Heck, they even provide the card savers. Their
245
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chat rooms provide updates on all your submissions. They also
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offer wax options and single cards to cover all the bases.
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Check them out on Facebook at Iron Sportscards Group or
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00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:27.120
on the web at Ironsportscards dot com, or even give
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00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:31.399
them a call at one eight seven seven iron PSA.
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00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:33.000
Rob's got you covered.
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Let's go. You are listening to the sportscard Nation podcasts.
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We have a lot of users already that really like
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the experience. And you know, with a piece of software, John,
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anytime you change something, you know, everybody who's used to
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the way it was, they get upset. So you know,
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it's a good it's it's a great point. I don't
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think we've fully addressed that concern. I think people have
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found ways to to use our tool to get to
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the result they want, but it might be a little
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different than the way it works on other apps. So
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you know, it's it's the card letters, a living, breathing software.
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Piece of software changes, it updates. You know, We've got
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some pretty exciting changes that I can't discuss but that
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we're working on that's coming out later this year. So
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you know, that's the best I got for you, John,
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is that that's kind of it.
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Was very honest answer. I appreciate that, Chris, and I
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expect that from you. And that's why I like kids
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as I do. I think, and again, I don't want
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to speak like on these spokesman for all vintage collectors
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even though I am one myself. I think there's a
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I think you agree to there's a different sort of
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between the vintage market and the ultra modern, and I
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think what vintage collectors are saying like it almost should
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be approached differently. Like your tools great. Card Lander's great,
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but you really need to do it like this for
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vintage cards. But like you said, it's sort of hard
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to do that because it would be almost across the board,
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and then the other side's going to be like, hey,
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what the heck's going on here? Why you why did
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you turn this light on?
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That's what we'd have to figure out. That's exactly what
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we'd have to figure out, is how to build in
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a functionality that the that these customers want to have,
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but not take anything away from the user experience that
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people enjoy right now. And maybe and it's we should
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be able to figure that out. Tell the vintage guys
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that go see Job. I'm telling you, tell him, go
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see Josh at the National He'll be at our booth.
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Pass that note to him. He is the guy to
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make who will make that happen the fastest? I mean,
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you can tell me too, and I'll relay it to him.
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But he really, Josh genuinely gets a thrill. It's one
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of the things that makes him so great at his job.
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He genuinely gets a thrill out of responding to what
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people want to see in the product. I mean, we
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have hundreds of things over the years that he's built
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because a customer brought it to him and he said, oh,
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you would like this, Well, let me think about how
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I can build this. And then he builds it, and
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he's done it time and time again, and he loves it.
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It's just a genuine passion, you know, because there's no
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immediate reward in that, like it might get us a
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new road.
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But and you you obviously know him, but it shows
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he cares. Right, we didn't care, he'd listen, he'd not
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shake us out. Okay, it sounds great, all right, see
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you later.
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John. It will bother him, it will He'll be thinking
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about it all night, and then he'll go he'll go
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back and then first hands he gets in front of
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his computer, he'll be like, let me see what I
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can do about that, and and he just gets a
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he gets an he gets a satisfaction out of the
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intrinsic performance of the job. You know, it's not about
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he's not getting a raise because he did that. You know,
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he just loves to do it. He just it gives
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him a I've seen it happen hundreds of times working.
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He gets a genuine satisfaction out of being able to
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build something for somebody and just to see the little
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twinkle in their eyes and they're like, wow, you did
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that for me. You know you built that because of
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my feedback, and then it's just a magical moment that
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I've seen it happen hundreds of times. So that's that's
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a little secrets. If you want it, if you want
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to get that thing built, you know, you gotta approach Josh.
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He's the guy you heard it from Chris. Like Chris said,
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I can relay it, but like cut out the middleman.
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Here, cut out the middle man. I'm just being completely
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honest because, like I could, I will present ideas to Josh,
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but you know I've got a million ideas, you know,
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and at the end of the day, he kind of
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has to be the filter, you know, and he has
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to say this is good, but we can put this
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on the back burner. But if a handful of people
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come up to him with the same request. He will
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take it very seriously, Yep.
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No doubt, and and listen, better to be like that
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than the the opposite right where you're just taking that
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like okay, yeah, see about it and then like let
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it go by the wayside.
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Josh, Josh can't even Josh is so funny. He can't
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even have an unready email. He has to read it.
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He has.
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I can't fix things like he can, but I I
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we we share the same like I gotta like either
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read or delete every.
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Emailing up until it's like zero.
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Yeah, that's just that's probably o CD from That's just
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a meticulous attention to detail for Josh. So there's I'm
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not comparing myself, but at least at least on the email,
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we're on the state. We're on the same page, all right.
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Lesten coming down the home stretch here, we got a
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little bit a few minutes left here. We got the
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Chicago National coming up here in a couple of months.
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As always, I call it the super Bowl the hobby.
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I know you view it very similar. But we got Detroit.
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We're gonna you know, I know we've had it in
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Chicago the last few years here as well, but Detroit
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will be hosting soon here. Uh kind of your thoughts
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as someone that goes to every national? Are you looking
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in Chicago's great? I know what you're like, you know
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your hometown, but are you looking forward to, like seeing
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a new city? It'll be for I've never I don't
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believe Detroit's ever hosted, or if they have, it's been
366
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a long time. Your thoughts on on the Detroit National.
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We're going to talk about Chicago plenty, so I thought
368
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I come at it with a different angle.
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Yeah, it's a great angle. So here's what comes to
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my mind. I'm just shooting from the hip here because
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I haven't really thought about it or discussed it too much.
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But it's a good topic. And the thing I think.
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A few things I think are this. I like changes
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of scenery, you know. I like that we had it
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in Cleveland, and then I liked that it was over
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in Atlantics, And I wouldn't hate it if it showed
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up in some other cities too. But I also really
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like it when it's in Chicago. Got all the hotels
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close by, got that big beautiful skywalk, and all the
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parking in a giant space that's actually big enough for
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this hobby, and so you know, those are important, important things,
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and if it ain't broke, don't, you know, don't fix it.
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Like That's kind of the way I look at it too,
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So that's kind of the other side of the equation.
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But the thing that matters a lot, the thing that
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matters a lot, and it's and it matters as much
387
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now as it ever has. It might even matter more now.
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You know, every week there are stories of shops getting
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broken into, I could just getting stolen, cards going missing.
390
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Safety in the security of items is so important and
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so ultimately change scenery. Fine, I can complain it's a
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longer drive for me, but you know what, it's shorter
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for somebody else. It all comes out in a wash.
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But we can't play games or take for granted safety
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security and just protecting people's items, protecting people's personal welfare,
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creating a safe, trustworthy environment. And so you know, Atlantic
397
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City was a little bit, it was on the edge
398
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of how safe it was. I'm just gonna call that
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one straight. And Cleveland was fine, Chicago's fine. So that's
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what I expect out of Detroit. I just hope that
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00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.519
that experience is very safe and that people feel safe
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00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.559
coming to and from that people's items are secure, and
403
00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:55.720
that everybody can have a safe experience while they're at
404
00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:58.480
the show. That's gotta be a very high priority. I'm
405
00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:02.000
sure it is. But that's something that when I'm evaluating
406
00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:05.000
a card show, that is the top priority. No matter
407
00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:07.440
whether we're talking about a small show and a mall
408
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or we're talking about the super Bowl of card show,
409
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the safety has got to be number one. Safety and security.
410
00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:14.839
Yeah, it's got to be paramount. It's got to be
411
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:17.880
well said because it all starts there. Right, we have
412
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.839
a horror story. Listen, you know how it is. Anything
413
00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.160
bad happens, right, that's what we're going to talk about. Right,
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00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:27.720
what happened in Dallas a few years back with ash
415
00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:30.519
and a million dollar Right, that was a great show
416
00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:35.079
with a very bad moment of very very right, and
417
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.480
that was overshadowed as it probably should have. That's that's
418
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.400
a big news. But you want to try to avoid
419
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:47.160
that from occurring, whether it be like you said, someone's
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safety as far as their health or their their property
421
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as well. So because if it isn't the case, that's
422
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.880
what we'll be talking that's what everyone will be talking about,
423
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and it'll overshadow a show, no matter how much great
424
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stuff happened. A side of that so well said. And
425
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you know, I know Chicago's central and I get it
426
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.720
for me. Unfortunately, it costs me a little bit more
427
00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:15.839
because I just have to fly in and run a car.
428
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It's at the end of the world. I'm not trying
429
00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:20.720
to have a pity party or feel bad for a job.
430
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But I you know, the one thing I get, the
431
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:28.039
Atlantic City thing. I liked it for the pure selfish fact, Chris,
432
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.400
I could drive there in five hours and have my
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own vehicle. And same thing with Cleveland. So but you know,
434
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I always, like you. I try to think of everybody else,
435
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:39.839
and I think of even like the West Coast people
436
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:43.720
that have to always seek to go east, even towards
437
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:46.640
Chicago to get to you know, I love to see
438
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.079
one on the West Coast, even if it cost me
439
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:53.440
a few more bucks to attend it. I'm a fairness guy,
440
00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:57.599
So I get if I lived in California or Washington
441
00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.400
or you know, I'd probably be like, hey, hey, let's
442
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.240
have one on this side of the United do you
443
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:05.680
know what I mean? So I get that, and if
444
00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:09.440
that day comes, I would make plans to a ten,
445
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:12.240
although my wallet would probably be mad at me, but
446
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:17.799
you know, it's it's in the act of fairness right
447
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:21.640
to the hobby and the collector. And well, Chris, I
448
00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:24.480
think we covered how busy you are with your travel
449
00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:27.279
schedule and the shows and what you do even when
450
00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:31.599
you're not at show. I appreciate you making sometimes as
451
00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:35.319
always for us here, So as always I give kind
452
00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:37.519
of the guests the last word. Anything you want to
453
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:42.359
plug share, put out there, take your time with the floors.
454
00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:45.279
I just always love checking in with you, John, and
455
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:47.599
I can't wait to see it the national if I
456
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:50.799
don't see you sooner. So it's been it's been a
457
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:53.839
great here in the hobby so far here twenty twenty six,
458
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:57.839
and you know, let's hope it keeps going. Caution, caution,
459
00:22:58.039 --> 00:23:00.440
cautious optimism is the word of the day. That's that's
460
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:03.440
my presidential state of the Union. All due respect to
461
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:04.559
mister Manginie.
462
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:08.799
Well said, and I agree, and right, there's two sides
463
00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:13.839
to every coin, hobby wise and any other aspect that
464
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.440
we can't we can't forget that. So well put again, Chris,
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00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:21.400
thank you, be well and we'll see you soon.
466
00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:22.559
Sounds good man.
467
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:27.799
Always great having Chris on the podcast, and won't wait
468
00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:30.039
as long next time to have him back, lungs he'll
469
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:34.200
come back. Look forward to seeing him here in a
470
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:38.640
few months here at in Chicago at the National. Like
471
00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:41.000
to hang out and get the chit chat with him
472
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:44.880
in person at the card ladder booth. And just a
473
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:49.720
really down to earth personable guy, right And sometimes there's
474
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:54.240
maybe not enough of that in the hobby there is,
475
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:57.680
but anytime, the more the better, right, And and Chris
476
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:02.000
checks all those boxes. Glad to have a man. If
477
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:05.279
you missed part one, you really didn't because you can
478
00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:09.359
go back anytime and check that out as well. So
479
00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:12.880
we're gonna come down the home stretch here do our
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Hobbies and People Announcer a week, a few other things,
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and wrap up this week's episode.
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Time for our hobby is the People Announcer of the Week.
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This is Ed Johnson from Toronto in Canada, collector of Fladdy, Junior,
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Blue Jays, Roberto Cormente and Willie Mays. Never forget the
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hobby is the people.
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If you'd like to be the hobby is the People
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Announcer of the Week. Do a one four MP three
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file and send it to Sportscard Nation PC at gmail
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dot com.
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Hey John, you want to have a catch
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