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Sports Guard, Nations Hobbies, the people, weely news and interviews.
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It's your number one soul. Sportscarnation hobby is the people.
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Sports Garnation. What is up? Everybody?
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Welcome to episode three eight of Sports Coordination. As we
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are days away if you're listening to this at show
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release day, We're days away from the National in Chicago.
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Again.
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I always say this, if all goes well, I will
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make it there safely. I hope to see and meet
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many of you out there. I know it's always humbling
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to me if someone taps me on the shoulder and says, hey, John, appreciate,
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appreciate you. I love the show blah blah blah and
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never gets lost on me. And you know, even a
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years into podcasting, which that even sounds crazy to say.
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So hope to.
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See many of you on the show floor or events
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even after the show. Today, part two of our conversation
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with NBA's Mike Baker and again a guy that knows
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a lot about the grating space, a lot about the hobby,
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but specifically even the grading space. So today's the conclusion
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of our conversation. If you missed last week's show, no
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problems out there still for the four year downloading or
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listening pleasure. I want to thank our great sponsors, SUC,
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Iron Sports Cards, Sports Collectors, Digest, Hobby, Hotline, Upper Deck
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Card Ladder, and Certified Trading Card Association. So with that
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being said, let's get the show started. You know you
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mentioned PWCC. They had some of their awards when they
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were around existed, and I think sometimes anyone that does
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any kind of affiliation or aligns themselves with them will
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take some of that heat, whether it's justifiable or unjustifiable.
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I mean, talk to you, you know, they don't exist
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anymore in your original form as they you know, talk
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about uh, you know as much as you can, like,
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you know, did it affect your brand? I know sometimes
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you're mentioned when someone is speaking ill of people be CC.
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Sometimes they'll throw your name into the same hat. Whether
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that's you know, right or wrong. Just talk about some
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of that, you know that that that happens there.
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You know.
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Overall, I can tell you that I go to was
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telling you before we got out, and we went a
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lot the shows. I got to like two to three
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shows every month. I travel all across the country. I'm
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literally I believe I'm the only greater that's stepping outside
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of a booth to talk to customers about whatever they
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want to talk about. So I'm not on message boards.
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I'm not you know, battling at two o'clock in the
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meaning somebody that has a difference opinion that I do.
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I don't do that.
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But I'm happy to have a you know, a healthy
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discussion about whatever is going on in the hobby, good,
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bad and different.
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I told you I'm an open book before we got on,
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and I am.
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I'll answer tough questions and take tough whatever it may be.
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I don't I don't dodge regarding p WCC no, I mean,
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you know, or any other service for that Matt. We're
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gonna do what I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do,
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and andyone else can do whatever they want to do.
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And ultimately I'll be judged by how we conduct ourselves
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and how we go forward. And you know, when you're
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disrupting things, you know, when you're grading the graters or
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you're auditing a grading company or whatever the words are
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to describe what we're doing. And really what we're doing
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is you know, doing It's a crossover. Ser PSA Beckett
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SGC I'll provide a crossover service where they're grading their
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competitors to see if that car can then be turned
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into or crossed over into their product.
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That's all that we're doing with that.
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So it's not much more, and there's no fand there's
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no smoke anywhere other than the simple fact that that's
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what we are doing. So I hope we continue to
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do more of it, and I'll continue to go out
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and keep charges down the line to you know, get
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our brand awareness out there as much as all the
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other companies have been with a much larger track record
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and time in basiness.
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So well, I appreciate you being candid, and you know,
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like you said, you know, I'd never even thought about
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it until we, like you said, we talked before we
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hit record, right, is you know whatever.
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The other three company, the ones you've see in the front.
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Are not the grads and not you know what I mean,
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they're representatives of the company. And you're behind your table, right,
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that's your name, your name on the company, right, and you,
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like you said, you're not hiding, you're not behind the curtain,
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and so that's refreshing and I definitely appreciate that about
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you and I'm sure others do, uh as well. Again,
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like you said, you'll answer, you know, you'll answer whatever
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question someone may have. Just I just hope, like like
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I try to do people, you know, ask them tactfully
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and respectfully.
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Rather than you know yahoo. But yeah, so.
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You know, like we were talking earlier too, people coming up,
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they're all response, I don't have back and forth, or hey,
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let's go outside and finish this discussion.
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You know, that's I don't have. It never gets to that.
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So you know, I think if given a couple of
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minutes or whatever timeframe, you know, as long as I
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answer the question and they can see my eyes, see
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my body language and know that I'm trying to be
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as transparent as I possibly can be and be honest
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about it. You know, in this market too, there's so
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much misconception and news today can be not the news tomorrow,
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and so I always try to just be just be
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consistent with who you are.
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You know, It's that's another cliche, but you know it
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doesn't matter.
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So yeah, no, no, it's well said.
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All right, Mike, I got to ask your opinion, right,
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counterfeit cards, altering cleaning, adding color, I'm sure I love
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something now that's not a new thing, that's been around
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for years.
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But do you think we're seeing more of that?
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Well, it's hard to maybe because we have more information
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about it, we have more of it because there's just
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more cards be submitted. You know, when you see some
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of the metrics that PSA has put out, you know,
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their counterfeits went up whatever percent it's because they're getting
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more of them, or there's this more volume coming in
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and people just don't know, or if they do, you know,
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they're trying to get.
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It passed to you or past the grading service.
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So you know, by by the fact that you would
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expect if you're doing you know, ten thousand cards, you know,
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twenty years ago, and you're doing two million cards twenty
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years later, that there's going to be I don't know
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if it's a higher percentage per se or is it
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just you know, it's kind of rolls with the numbers.
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You know, not everybody has a nineteen eighty six Michael
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Jordan Flear that's counterfeit to pump the numbers up, you know,
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I'm sure most people would want an authentic line. I
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guess the real question is, you know, within this market
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that has become so hyperbolic and international. Are there bad
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actors out there, you know, creating things and doing things
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to really you know, kind of go within the two
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million cards submission or whatever the submissions are for any
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greating service that's out there.
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Are they trying to filter some of those in? I
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probably say yes.
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Now to what degree is debate, And that's based on
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what the grading services are seeing in their metrics, based
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on how many they've caught, how many are in holders,
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how many they kicked as you know as trimmed or
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recolored or whatever. And those those data points I'm sure
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are definitely available internally. I don't know what they don't
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know what they are externally per se, but I can
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tell you that recoloring seems to be a big one
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with Pokemon, both in coloring pencil and in pin to
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hide some of the chipping on the back, whether it's
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blue or the gold. So that that's that's definitely a
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big And if you again look at the numbers based
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on what PSAs receiving, if they're doing over a million
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and a half TCG Pokemon cards and it's like five
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six hundred thousand sports cards, then the numbers for that
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for those types of cards are probably pretty high, know
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in terms of you know, trying to improve the cards
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conditioned by coloring the card.
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The other ones.
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I don't know, you know, I don't We don't get
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a lot of fake six Jordan's. It's like, you know,
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when you have a computer virus, you're gonna get a
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lot more on a Mac or excuse me, a lot
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more on a Windows operating system because Windows is more
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people out Windows and Mac.
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So, I mean that's just kind of goes with the
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territory itself.
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Yeah, we you know, we've seen grading card companies get
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criticized PSA, really all of them, right, yourself included. I've
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seen like, hey, they they slabbed or they stickered this
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and it turned out to be you know, fake or altered.
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You know, how can that happen?
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I mean, how do you number I'll ask you sort
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of a two pronged question, right, how does that happen?
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And are these people who are doing.
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These bad things? And are they getting better? You know
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it's illegal, but are they getting better at their illegal
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craft through the year? Is it getting harder to detect
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detect this out there than it was ten or twenty
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years ago.
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Some of the Pokemon and TCG cards are definitely challenging
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to detect their coming. You know, some of them look
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really good, no doubt about it. And it's mainly a ultramon,
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you know, counterfeiting a nine tops Mickey Mantle. No, because
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you can't create recreate the paper stock. You know, I
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haven't seen that done ever T two six, Honus Wagner, Nope,
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haven't seen one of them come close to being original.
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So and I don't think you would.
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Find or unless it was a glaring error, any gradient
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service with their salt would have holded or have holded
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anything in the vintage sports, primarily in the counterfeiting world
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or whatever. Alteration trimming and whatnot has always been kind
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of the thing or something that anyone could do, you know.
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You know, it doesn't take a you know, a three
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D printer to make a new card type thing.
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It.
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You know, you need a cutter or whatever instruments being
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used to improve the edge or corners of a card.
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You know, mainly they leave Traditionally they leave signatures to
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the cut straations on the edge, and people will use
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old cutting blades to mirror what it looks like.
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They'll age the card by adding you.
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Know thing to dirt it up basically to so I
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always call it like you know, when you move bark
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from a tree, you see the new underlinements of the tree,
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much like paper be cut something that's been oxidized and
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exposed to air and you know, wear or use.
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It looks dirty, it looks like it looks time period,
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so to speak.
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And if you cut it, it's going to show a
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wider or cleaner edge. People will try to hide that
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and doctor it up to fool the graters and whatnot.
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So yeah, it's a challenge, but you know that's no
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there's no greating service that wants to hold your cards
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that have been trimmed or counterfeit you.
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You don't. You're not gonna have a long shelf life.
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That's just a fact. So no, I think where.
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Everyone's doing what they can, we're doing everything we can
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on our end.
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Relative to using machine.
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Learning to help us with size, to help be more
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consistent with centering. Even though we can grab a loop
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lens and mic it out to micrometers and get the
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exact stuff on the left, right or the top to bottom,
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it's nice to have with the what the learning system
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is telling us.
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Its opinion is and then we marri it up.
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It's like having a second automated greater with you. So
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it's an assistant really to help thing and honestly help
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speed up, you know, because if you're taking time to
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loop every card in terms of identifying centering, it takes time,
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and to have something that's close to it and then
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you can verify it if needed, then.
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You know there's there's that sizing.
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You know immediately whether or not the card is two
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and a half by three and a half from nineteen
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fifty seven to present, and you can you know, evaluate
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the card and go forward, go forward from that. Ultimately,
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it's going to be what your experience is and looking
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at those cards though.
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You know, you can have a card that measures exactly
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the factory spects and it.
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Still could be altered and or trimmed, and that's going
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to be up to you and how much experience you
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00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.559
have with that issue to determine that. Only call it
246
00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:02.600
once you know, you get scared and don't grade it,
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00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:04.879
and then it comes back and then seen again a
248
00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:06.879
couple months later or whatever it may be, and you
249
00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:07.320
grate it.
250
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:09.799
So there's the built in incnsisteny. So really you have
251
00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:12.039
to grade what you can't take, you know, if you
252
00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:14.440
really and you have to articulate what you see.
253
00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:16.600
So if in fact, you're going to call something that
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00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:19.000
cannot be holder for whatever reason, you've got to be
255
00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:21.919
able to articulate that. It'll it'll resonate more with the
256
00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:24.799
grading process, and that makes you more consistent as a
257
00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:29.799
greeting service. And I think you or the submitters at large,
258
00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:32.480
once you start seeing what the greeding servers are calling it,
259
00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:35.759
that way, you can hopefully get more educated about how
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00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:38.080
we're seeing it, and then you can have be a
261
00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:40.440
stopgap or a filter before those cars ever come to
262
00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:41.200
a greater's desk.
263
00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:44.360
Yeah, it's funny, you know, I almost feel like it's
264
00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:50.080
a chess match right between grading companies and graders and
265
00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.759
the people doing you know the bad thing.
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00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:56.000
They trimming, altering, making just a fake card.
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00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:58.799
And it's like you got to just stay one step
268
00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:01.759
ahead of them as they improve what they do. Like
269
00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:06.320
it's like cat and mouse, right, and it's it reminds
270
00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:09.960
me like the FBI, Like the FBI will sometimes hire
271
00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:15.120
like former you know, burglars and crooks to pick their
272
00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:18.519
brain to like, hey, what are we looking for or
273
00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:20.879
you know, how do we stop it and that sort
274
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:23.759
of thing, or especially in with like hackers and computer
275
00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:27.279
don't they'll hire those folks and pay them and make
276
00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:31.519
them use their their craft for for good rather than uh,
277
00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:34.879
the other side. And it just sort of reminds me
278
00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:37.879
of that. And it's funny you mentioned because there's a
279
00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:40.000
lot of times, you know, when I'm thinking about what
280
00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:43.519
I do with the SPC Bolk Service. You know, obviously
281
00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:47.559
I'm handling those cards at my table as they're being subbed,
282
00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:51.639
and I can I'll see you, Jordan Rookie, and I'll know, like, hey,
283
00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:53.879
I have to be the bearer of bad news, like
284
00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:57.519
I'm ninety nine percent you know, this is not legit.
285
00:13:57.639 --> 00:14:00.600
Where did you get you know, what's the what's the providence?
286
00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:04.480
Where did you get it? And you know, and sometimes
287
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:07.519
someone will say, you know, thank you, that's what I thought.
288
00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:09.159
You kind of confirmed it.
289
00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:13.360
Other times people will say John, like I believe you,
290
00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:14.399
and I think so too.
291
00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:16.759
Can we can we just I'll pay for it, I'll
292
00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:19.120
send it. I just I got to know for sure,
293
00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:21.039
and I'm like, just be prepared.
294
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.639
It's probably going to be that, but you know, let
295
00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:28.840
them make that determination and you mentioned Pokemon. I'm not
296
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:32.720
a Pokemon guy, but obviously I get those cards through
297
00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:38.200
that that folk submission, and you know, per capital, I'll
298
00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:43.360
use that qualifier. I get more Pokemon cards back ungraded
299
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.759
for like you said, either altering or just being playing
300
00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:52.080
out a fake comparably speaking to the sports counterparts, I
301
00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:54.240
guess you know, why do you think that is? Is
302
00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.360
it just maybe easier? It's just just because it's blowing
303
00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.320
up right now. You know, people will tell you, like
304
00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.759
right now, Pokemon's even hotter than the sports card market.
305
00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:07.679
Is it as simple as that?
306
00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:10.759
Or why do why does it seem like we're seeing
307
00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:14.399
more you know, fake and altering on the poking side.
308
00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:16.279
It's exact way, and you.
309
00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:18.360
Just hit all the you just checked all the boxes
310
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.559
in terms of why you know it's it's the number
311
00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:22.679
one submitted card right now by a factor of like
312
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.600
two and a half times to its sports you know contemporary. Uh,
313
00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:29.200
you know, it's all made now, so it's all modern.
314
00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:31.279
So if you had a if you had a you know,
315
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:34.320
a print shop that was legit, and you could go
316
00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:36.320
to two places that will do it for you in
317
00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:38.480
the Far East, you you can get away with a
318
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.879
lot of stuff, especially because there's a lot of people
319
00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:43.399
collect that raw, you know, in in our market. As
320
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.600
you know, if you get something that's cheaper than it
321
00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:47.799
usually goes, you think you got a deal. And so
322
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.559
it's like your natural reaction to not think that there's
323
00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:52.559
something wrong with the card and celebrate the fact that
324
00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:54.799
you got it for cheaper than what it actually goes for,
325
00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:57.200
and you kind of rationalize that in your mind that
326
00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:59.440
you got a deal and you're not even thinking about
327
00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:02.759
whether it's authentic or not. At least the collectors, you know,
328
00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:07.039
the dealers have more awareness on what they should look for.
329
00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:08.600
There's enough information out there.
330
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:11.159
Time to hear from one of our great sponsors, but
331
00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:13.519
Sportscard Nation will be right back after that.
332
00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:17.679
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333
00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:21.080
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334
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chat rooms provide updates on all your submissions. They also
336
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offer wax options and single cards to cover all the bases.
337
00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:33.320
Check them out on Facebook at Iron Sportscards Group or
338
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:36.279
on the web at Ironsportscards dot com, or even give
339
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:40.559
them a call at one eight seven seven iron PSA
340
00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:42.159
Rob's got you covered.
341
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.799
Let's go. You are listening to the Sports cad Nation podcasts.
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00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:52.080
I've said this in interviews in the past. There's some
343
00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:54.159
guys that really know their stuff and they're happy to
344
00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.679
publish it on YouTube and Instagram and AUSO talk about
345
00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:59.279
what there's like subgroups, the guys that are really like
346
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:04.000
into ball, you know, or Pokemon Vintage or whatever. And
347
00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:05.960
you know, those guys are some of the best detectives
348
00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.880
out there too, and I'd be I'd be an idiot
349
00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.480
not to listen to what they're seeing trend wise and
350
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:13.519
everything else. I think the grading service as a whole,
351
00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:16.839
if they're smart, they're looking at these specialists and different
352
00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:19.160
little nooks and crannies of the hobby and see what
353
00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.519
they have and you know, kind of use them as
354
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:24.640
a as a as a hub for trends that are happening.
355
00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:27.160
What do you you know, how does it work? You know,
356
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.279
you've seen some of the videos where you can take
357
00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:31.200
some of these Pokemon cards and literally take the top
358
00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:33.400
part of it and it just pulls right off like
359
00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:33.920
a sticker.
360
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:36.079
It literally is a sticker. It's not even a card.
361
00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.480
Well, it's a sticker card basically, but the way it's
362
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.000
produced is so, you know, not the way it was
363
00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.359
produced from the factory, and you can see it's you know,
364
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:45.519
and it's kind of infancy. I think they're going to
365
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.759
get better, honestly in terms of what's coming in Pokemon
366
00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:52.759
in particular. But I think if we all kind of
367
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:55.079
work together and you know, the grading services, where the
368
00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.200
buck stops with whatever grading and service you have, and
369
00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:59.160
what their experience is and what they're gonna put in
370
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.920
a holder, et cetera, et cetera. So just how, how
371
00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:03.960
what's the approach to make sure that you have guard
372
00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:05.680
rolls out to do as much as you can to
373
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.279
ensure that cards that shouldn't be in a holder don't
374
00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:09.119
end up in a holder.
375
00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:14.480
Yet, no, no doubt, And I agree, I guess you
376
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:18.680
know with I don't. I don't again, I don't do Pokemon,
377
00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:22.279
but I've seen just a lot more. I'll come back counterfeit,
378
00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:24.680
I could, you know, I'm more have to catch at
379
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:27.720
my table, Mike, I'm more have to catch a sports card.
380
00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:30.519
That's my sort of my lane. I've caught him.
381
00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:34.319
I've caught him before and again some people will still say, well,
382
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:36.960
and I still said that just for my own peace
383
00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.720
of mind, I want them to sort of give it
384
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:42.319
a thumbs up or thumbs down, and you know, and
385
00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:44.359
sometimes that that happens.
386
00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:46.759
You know, what do you when?
387
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:49.839
What do you say when someone says I get this
388
00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.039
all the time, Like someone doesn't like the grade they get,
389
00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:55.559
and they're like they'll say, well, the greater might have
390
00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:59.640
gotten an argument with his wife that morning, or you know,
391
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.799
and brought it to work. I mean, do you buy
392
00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:05.680
that or you think that's just sour great well?
393
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:08.880
I mean, you know, that's exactly my point with cause
394
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:11.519
and effect. You know, I got a bad card, you know,
395
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.240
I think I think if the Greatest Services were more
396
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:17.000
transparent about why the card graded the way it did,
397
00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:20.880
it'd be much more you know, helpful in having those
398
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.720
type of conspiratorial theories, you know, diminished basically because you know,
399
00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:28.000
for for NBA, every card that we do, or whether
400
00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:31.119
it's a graded card or a card that receives a sticker,
401
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.160
you get a heat map from us which tells you
402
00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:36.480
exactly where we have with the card. We don't you know,
403
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:38.759
dissect the whole card and give you every single problem.
404
00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:41.400
But mainly the main concern with the card and you know,
405
00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:43.359
is the upper left corner or is it, you know,
406
00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:45.519
a surface scratch or something. Just to kind of help
407
00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.039
you kind of get some more information than you know,
408
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.880
than what's currently available. You know, that helps as far
409
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.400
as a guy having a bad night with his lady
410
00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.519
or you know, I'm sure, hey, look, we're all human beings, right,
411
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.319
you know, if you're if you're pissed off, you're not
412
00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:03.400
happy with whatever is going on in your life. I
413
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.680
think there's a general sense that you could be more
414
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.880
conservative or you know, that kind of thing that's not
415
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.119
too far out of the realm. But that doesn't help
416
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.599
the service, That doesn't help your job. You know, I
417
00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:17.319
think nobody wants more customer complaints. Nobody wants nobody wants that,
418
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.519
So to do that would just be adding accelerant to
419
00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:23.400
and it's something that already exists and you don't have
420
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:23.759
to do it.
421
00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:24.920
Just do your job. You know.
422
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:27.440
It's if you're a professional, I'm sure you could say,
423
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:29.200
look like I had a bad night, don't I doubt
424
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:30.440
it was because he got in a fight with this.
425
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:31.920
He just had a bad night, you know.
426
00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:35.480
So it's like it's like an athlete right. These guys
427
00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:35.960
are great.
428
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:39.119
They could go oh for four and strike out three times, right,
429
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.680
and the next night go four for four or two
430
00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:44.240
home runs and then six hour the eyes like, I
431
00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:46.400
get it, you know. I like the fact that you
432
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.400
said like your heat and epic because one of the
433
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.119
questions I get back when uh, when grating's done and
434
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:55.759
I'm returning the cards and someone that maybe doesn't like
435
00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.039
the grade or like, hey, what.
436
00:20:57.680 --> 00:20:58.880
What caused this eight?
437
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:02.880
Let's say, you know, and there's really no explanation, and John,
438
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:03.839
look at this card.
439
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:05.839
What do you see like can you see it?
440
00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:06.119
Like?
441
00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:08.960
And I'm like, well, you know, look at it under
442
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:13.039
you know, magnification too, like sometimes you can't always see
443
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:16.839
things just with with the with the naked eye. So
444
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:19.839
I always say, you know, And that's even before sending
445
00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:23.920
the grading, Mike, not not after the fact. But it's
446
00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:26.880
nice that you kind of you're letting the suburb know,
447
00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.880
like here, here's why this got this grade. So that
448
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.240
sort of takes that guessing game out that I have
449
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.839
to play sometimes with some of my subbers where they're like, John,
450
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:37.640
what do you see here?
451
00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:39.119
Like I don't see it?
452
00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:41.920
Like I don't get it like this and it puts
453
00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:44.119
me in a weird spot, like you know what I mean,
454
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:47.079
It's not I'm not like, it's not I shy away from.
455
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:49.680
But I'm like, I don't know, there's you know, there's
456
00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.039
something like you know, and I always have at my table,
457
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:53.759
I always have.
458
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:55.240
Like a one of these.
459
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.039
I actually have one right here, but I one at
460
00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:00.680
my show tall like just a magnification and right, look,
461
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:04.720
any tool you can use beforehand that maybe you know.
462
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:07.720
That was one of the early mistakes I made when
463
00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:10.319
I was grading my cards back in you know, twenty
464
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:14.000
years ago, is I gave myself too many passes, Like
465
00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:17.559
I see somebody like, ah, that's a minor, no big deal,
466
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:21.359
you know, And you learn by trial and error, like yep,
467
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:23.160
you know they're doing their job.
468
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:25.119
It's not a no big deal to them.
469
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.839
You're giving yourself a free pass, but that's not what
470
00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:33.839
they're going to do or should do, right, And I've learned,
471
00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:36.799
you know, And I think sometimes we're all guilty of that,
472
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.519
right when we critique ourselves. Sometimes we'll be a little easy,
473
00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.480
easier on ourselves than maybe someone else would. I just think,
474
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:47.200
like you said, it's huge human nature and that sort
475
00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:51.440
of thing. One last question before we kind of you know,
476
00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:54.599
I've had this debate with sometimes people, whether it be
477
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:58.319
on the podcast or even at a show, there's people
478
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:01.359
that say, you know, John, in the art world, right,
479
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:06.759
they bring pictures back, they you know, re recondition them,
480
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:11.720
they'll fix them so they're as close to like original form,
481
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:15.359
and it's not viewed as altering. They're still up in museums,
482
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:20.440
they're still protected security systems. Like I don't think adding
483
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:24.440
a little color to a car or rolling a crease
484
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:27.720
out if it keeps the same size, if that's possible,
485
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:32.119
I just think that's kind of what the art world does.
486
00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:35.680
It should be more widely accepted in the hobby. And
487
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:39.799
I disagree. They're just two different they're two different genres,
488
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:43.839
and so while one may be sort of like accepted,
489
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:46.799
I don't think that necessary means we have to accept
490
00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:50.160
that in the hobby. I'm sure you've heard that argument before.
491
00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:52.720
Kind of you know what, you know, I get that
492
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.079
all the time. How how do you you know what's
493
00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:58.319
your response when someone maybe brings that up to you,
494
00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:01.519
as as someone in the great So yeah, I mean it.
495
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.160
You know, forever it's been trading cards, that's not allowed
496
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:08.319
you know, in coins, uh, you know you can dip
497
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:08.680
a coin.
498
00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:10.960
Uh, you know you can uh.
499
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.119
In comic books you can restore, in art you can restore.
500
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:17.359
In cars, you restore for whatever reason are are collectible.
501
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:20.480
That's just the way it's always been. I will say
502
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:22.880
that we don't NBA. We're not guessing, you know. And
503
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:25.119
there's a lot of cards have been stored in the
504
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:28.599
in screw once forever. H Greden services front on that
505
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:31.559
now because it, you know, leaves a shininess to the
506
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:34.400
top of card, and they are saying it's altered, and
507
00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:37.000
you know, it's I think maybe that's kind of kicked
508
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:40.279
the can a little too far in my opinion, because ultimately,
509
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.960
if a card has been altered or its stock has impressed,
510
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.720
and it affects the thickness of the card, so you
511
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:49.079
have a nice thick edge and then it gets really51200:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.519
narrow in its thickness towards the corner to improve the51300:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.000
corner that's altered, no doubt, Okay, but I can't throw51400:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.200
a dart and see a card that I see it51500:24:58.240 --> 00:25:02.000
before and after and everything, you know, measures out. The51600:25:02.039 --> 00:25:06.960
stock is professionally to the mics are professional to the51700:25:06.960 --> 00:25:10.119
factory or you know, origination of that. So it's like51800:25:10.200 --> 00:25:12.559
that that. You know, if you take your finger and51900:25:12.599 --> 00:25:14.720
lick a corner right out of a pack, some people52000:25:14.720 --> 00:25:16.039
will call that alternate card.52100:25:16.359 --> 00:25:16.559
You know.52200:25:17.000 --> 00:25:19.799
If the Greater can't pick it off, it's not or52300:25:19.880 --> 00:25:23.960
in our opinion, you know, so coloring not going to happen.52400:25:24.200 --> 00:25:27.640
Removal of color. Then it can be graded because the52500:25:27.680 --> 00:25:29.960
color isn't there anymore, and it gets downgraded based on52600:25:30.119 --> 00:25:31.039
what the card looks like.52700:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.680
Trimming, No, if you can see a trimmed.52800:25:34.359 --> 00:25:37.240
Edge, even if it measures and you can be consistent52900:25:37.240 --> 00:25:39.440
to that, you got to call it, you know. Uh,53000:25:39.920 --> 00:25:42.160
the pressing part is always kind of a wabbler because53100:25:42.160 --> 00:25:43.079
if it's done right.53200:25:43.279 --> 00:25:45.680
You know, it's like fingerprint fingerprint wiping.53300:25:45.839 --> 00:25:46.079
You know.53400:25:46.400 --> 00:25:49.559
If you people think that that's no good, well, how53500:25:49.599 --> 00:25:51.599
can you tell you know? I mean you have to53600:25:51.599 --> 00:25:53.039
go on what you can see, not what you know53700:25:53.079 --> 00:25:55.200
people think they know, or what it looked like before53800:25:55.400 --> 00:25:57.799
I can tell you that. No Greater wants to put53900:25:58.000 --> 00:25:59.720
their name on something or have it go into a54000:25:59.720 --> 00:26:02.799
whole or unless it meets the standards for what you've54100:26:02.799 --> 00:26:05.319
done and how you do it for the service. So54200:26:05.400 --> 00:26:07.720
that's that's, that's it in a back of tricks. So54300:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.480
I know, you see sometimes you'll see cards that you know,54400:26:10.960 --> 00:26:12.920
I see. I've seen our message boards over the years54500:26:13.079 --> 00:26:16.039
before and after and it's like, wow, that's you know,54600:26:16.119 --> 00:26:17.640
really good, and they'll call it. But like then you54700:26:17.680 --> 00:26:19.799
see it in person, you're like, what, God, Like, I54800:26:19.799 --> 00:26:21.400
don't know if I would have caught that, you.54900:26:21.359 --> 00:26:23.160
Know, so completely transparent.55000:26:23.200 --> 00:26:25.079
I'd love to say I'm a super greader and I55100:26:25.119 --> 00:26:27.960
and I see everything, excuse me, and I sure try to.55200:26:28.359 --> 00:26:30.319
Some things are just you can't and you just have55300:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.519
to be consistent to whatever you're saying. That's why I55400:26:32.559 --> 00:26:35.200
said earlier, we grade what we see, not what we think,55500:26:35.279 --> 00:26:37.279
because what we think is going to be the line's55600:26:37.279 --> 00:26:38.759
gonna be all over the place, and it's when you're55700:26:38.759 --> 00:26:40.519
gonna have a lot of income. So just keep up55800:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.039
the guard rails, do your best, stick to the standard,55900:26:43.079 --> 00:26:44.160
and let let's ships fallward.56000:26:44.200 --> 00:26:47.279
They may yeah, I agree, well said, And you know56100:26:47.599 --> 00:26:50.880
it's you know, it's it's crazy, right what some of56200:26:50.920 --> 00:26:54.920
these folks are like developing new new techniques to try56300:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.480
to try to fool you guys, right, that's all.56400:26:57.720 --> 00:26:59.960
And you know what I mean, and that's never.56500:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.519
That's no never going away with the new, the new56600:27:03.559 --> 00:27:07.799
technologies that come out every year. It just keeps you56700:27:07.839 --> 00:27:10.799
on your toes. I'm sure makes your job a little56800:27:10.839 --> 00:27:15.400
more difficult than it has to be sometimes, I'm sure. Well, Mike,56900:27:15.680 --> 00:27:17.960
I appreciate you making some time. I know you're a57000:27:17.960 --> 00:27:22.000
busy guy, traveling, being at the front of that table57100:27:22.680 --> 00:27:26.319
at the shows and and other things. I appreciate you57200:27:26.440 --> 00:27:29.319
making some time. I always give the guests kind of57300:27:29.359 --> 00:27:33.680
the final word. Social media's what's coming anything you want57400:27:33.759 --> 00:27:38.039
to plug website, take your time, get all that information57500:27:38.240 --> 00:27:39.960
out there for the listener.57600:27:40.039 --> 00:27:40.680
Sar, thank you.57700:27:41.119 --> 00:27:45.480
Basically, our website is grading dot n b are, Our57800:27:45.559 --> 00:27:48.160
instagram is grading dot NBA. Trying to keep things consistent57900:27:48.200 --> 00:27:51.079
and easy. We do a lot of announcements of our show,58000:27:51.079 --> 00:27:55.680
travel and whatnot on both the website and the Instagram channel.58100:27:55.720 --> 00:27:58.119
In particular, we're trying to get more social with Twitter58200:27:58.200 --> 00:28:00.839
and or x and YouTube and whatnot.58300:28:01.559 --> 00:28:03.079
We're a small company, we're growing.58400:28:03.200 --> 00:28:05.079
We just had our first job fair here at the58500:28:05.160 --> 00:28:07.559
front row of Portland Show. We're gonna have another one58600:28:07.599 --> 00:28:11.359
in the Tacoma show next month. We're hiring hiring big58700:28:11.400 --> 00:28:13.680
time right now, just like everybody is. The market's so58800:28:13.799 --> 00:28:15.920
big and if you're if you're not hiring right now,58900:28:16.039 --> 00:28:19.759
something's wrong. So uh, I can say that we have59000:28:19.880 --> 00:28:22.599
our new holder that's going to be coming up at59100:28:22.640 --> 00:28:25.559
the National, hopefully for tall Boys and for T threes59200:28:25.920 --> 00:28:27.839
and five by seven star, all that good stuff.59300:28:27.839 --> 00:28:28.759
So we're excited about that.59400:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.759
We've got some great strategic partnerships we're gonn announce going59500:28:31.799 --> 00:28:32.480
into the National.59600:28:32.480 --> 00:28:36.359
We've got some great uh card sales for NBA graded.59700:28:36.279 --> 00:28:38.680
That we're gonna pump that have gone uh that are59800:28:38.720 --> 00:28:41.480
we've been kind of keeping off grid right now, uh59900:28:41.519 --> 00:28:43.960
and they're gonna be announced by both the buyer and60000:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.200
the seller in terms in terms of what's been sold.60100:28:46.240 --> 00:28:47.799
So I think some of those will be kind of60200:28:47.880 --> 00:28:51.839
eyebrow raising, great positive new and we're looking forward to60300:28:51.880 --> 00:28:54.079
just keep growing the brand, keep going to shows, keep60400:28:54.079 --> 00:28:56.680
spreading the word, letting people know how we do what60500:28:56.720 --> 00:28:58.559
we do, how we do it so we can kind60600:28:58.559 --> 00:29:01.640
of clear up some of the you know, the perceptions60700:29:01.640 --> 00:29:04.440
about greeting the greeters or whatever it is, and sticking60800:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.279
with the facts relative to the business case and why60900:29:07.319 --> 00:29:09.119
it's needed and.61000:29:09.119 --> 00:29:10.359
Just you know, and be us.61100:29:10.440 --> 00:29:13.440
I'm gonna be me enjoy the enjoy the hobby. Ultimately,61200:29:13.440 --> 00:29:15.440
the hobby is supposed to be enjoyed. The money has61300:29:15.480 --> 00:29:18.000
gotten so big we throw terms right, ten k and61400:29:18.160 --> 00:29:20.160
twenty k like it's five bucks.61500:29:20.279 --> 00:29:22.640
So you know, it's a it's a weird uh, a61600:29:22.680 --> 00:29:23.480
weird markt right now.61700:29:23.519 --> 00:29:25.680
But you know it's one market that no one's ever61800:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.599
seen before happen, and like you, I hope it goes61900:29:28.599 --> 00:29:29.279
for as long as.62000:29:29.319 --> 00:29:31.200
So yeah, no doubt.62100:29:31.240 --> 00:29:35.240
Well said again, I appreciate you, you know, taking some62200:29:35.240 --> 00:29:38.000
time out of your business schedule, uh and giving us62300:29:38.000 --> 00:29:42.160
a little bit here for the podcast. So Mike continued62400:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.759
success and growth and all the good things that come62500:29:45.799 --> 00:29:49.039
along with that. Thank you, John, Thank you to Mike62600:29:49.079 --> 00:29:53.119
Baker for making some time for us. Very busy man62700:29:53.759 --> 00:29:57.519
and with the national coming up, and you know, as62800:29:57.559 --> 00:30:01.119
he said on both episodes, he's got some irons in62900:30:01.160 --> 00:30:06.559
the fire as he expands his business, including potentially overseas.63000:30:06.839 --> 00:30:07.680
And what have you.63100:30:07.839 --> 00:30:12.039
So you know, it was a long time coming, but63200:30:13.200 --> 00:30:17.119
glad he made some time for us, and maybe somewhere63300:30:17.119 --> 00:30:19.680
down the line we'll have him back on. So I'm63400:30:19.680 --> 00:30:23.720
going to wrap up today's episode and we'll see you63500:30:24.359 --> 00:30:27.759
here in next week and again if you're at the63600:30:27.839 --> 00:30:31.480
National and you see me and you want to have63700:30:31.519 --> 00:30:34.839
a conversation or shake a hand, love to do so63800:30:35.079 --> 00:30:37.839
love meeting people in the Hobby. Heck, the tagline of63900:30:37.880 --> 00:30:40.440
the show, the Hobby is the People, So you can't64000:30:40.480 --> 00:30:43.720
beat You can't have that tagline and not like people64100:30:43.880 --> 00:30:44.880
or want to meet people.64200:30:45.000 --> 00:30:45.960
So hope to.64300:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.359
See some of you at the National. And whether I64400:30:48.400 --> 00:30:50.559
do or I don't, I hope you have a great National,64500:30:50.640 --> 00:30:53.240
get all the cards you want and have a great time.64600:30:53.279 --> 00:30:56.359
That's what I'm going to try to do. So hopefully64700:30:56.559 --> 00:30:57.319
see you there.64800:30:58.240 --> 00:31:02.400
Time for all the announcer of the week.64900:31:05.559 --> 00:31:08.599
Hey what's up your boy? Catob Adminster Catob on Twitter65000:31:08.640 --> 00:31:11.000
And remember the Hobby is the People.65100:31:11.559 --> 00:31:13.759
If you'd like to be the Hobby is the People65200:31:13.799 --> 00:31:16.640
announcer of the week to a one F or MP65300:31:16.759 --> 00:31:20.720
three file and send it to Sportscard Nation PC at65400:31:20.720 --> 00:31:23.519
gmail dot com.65500:31:23.519 --> 00:31:24.599
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