July 24, 2026

Mike Baker/MBA is back E398

Mike Baker/MBA is back E398
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Most will agree Mike Baker is one of the most experienced people when it comes to the grading space. He was PSA's 1st employee and now is the force behind MBA. He returns for the conclusion of our conversation.


Talking Points may include:

*How it all started

*How grading has changed through the decades.


*Junk Slab era?

*Future of SGC

*What's the deal with MBA

*Thoughts on altering and cleaning

*Do the diamonds make a difference

*The subjectiveness of grading




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WEBVTT

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Sports Guard, Nations Hobbies, the people, weely news and interviews.

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It's your number one soul. Sportscarnation hobby is the people.

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Sports Garnation. What is up? Everybody?

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Welcome to episode three eight of Sports Coordination. As we

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are days away if you're listening to this at show

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release day, We're days away from the National in Chicago.

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Again.

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I always say this, if all goes well, I will

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make it there safely. I hope to see and meet

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many of you out there. I know it's always humbling

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to me if someone taps me on the shoulder and says, hey, John, appreciate,

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appreciate you. I love the show blah blah blah and

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never gets lost on me. And you know, even a

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years into podcasting, which that even sounds crazy to say.

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So hope to.

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See many of you on the show floor or events

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even after the show. Today, part two of our conversation

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with NBA's Mike Baker and again a guy that knows

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a lot about the grating space, a lot about the hobby,

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but specifically even the grading space. So today's the conclusion

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of our conversation. If you missed last week's show, no

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problems out there still for the four year downloading or

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listening pleasure. I want to thank our great sponsors, SUC,

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Iron Sports Cards, Sports Collectors, Digest, Hobby, Hotline, Upper Deck

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Card Ladder, and Certified Trading Card Association. So with that

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being said, let's get the show started. You know you

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mentioned PWCC. They had some of their awards when they

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were around existed, and I think sometimes anyone that does

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any kind of affiliation or aligns themselves with them will

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take some of that heat, whether it's justifiable or unjustifiable.

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I mean, talk to you, you know, they don't exist

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anymore in your original form as they you know, talk

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about uh, you know as much as you can, like,

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you know, did it affect your brand? I know sometimes

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you're mentioned when someone is speaking ill of people be CC.

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Sometimes they'll throw your name into the same hat. Whether

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that's you know, right or wrong. Just talk about some

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of that, you know that that that happens there.

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You know.

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Overall, I can tell you that I go to was

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telling you before we got out, and we went a

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lot the shows. I got to like two to three

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shows every month. I travel all across the country. I'm

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literally I believe I'm the only greater that's stepping outside

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of a booth to talk to customers about whatever they

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want to talk about. So I'm not on message boards.

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I'm not you know, battling at two o'clock in the

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meaning somebody that has a difference opinion that I do.

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I don't do that.

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But I'm happy to have a you know, a healthy

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discussion about whatever is going on in the hobby, good,

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bad and different.

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I told you I'm an open book before we got on,

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and I am.

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I'll answer tough questions and take tough whatever it may be.

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I don't I don't dodge regarding p WCC no, I mean,

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you know, or any other service for that Matt. We're

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gonna do what I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do,

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and andyone else can do whatever they want to do.

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And ultimately I'll be judged by how we conduct ourselves

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and how we go forward. And you know, when you're

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disrupting things, you know, when you're grading the graters or

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you're auditing a grading company or whatever the words are

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to describe what we're doing. And really what we're doing

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is you know, doing It's a crossover. Ser PSA Beckett

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SGC I'll provide a crossover service where they're grading their

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competitors to see if that car can then be turned

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into or crossed over into their product.

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That's all that we're doing with that.

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So it's not much more, and there's no fand there's

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no smoke anywhere other than the simple fact that that's

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what we are doing. So I hope we continue to

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do more of it, and I'll continue to go out

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and keep charges down the line to you know, get

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our brand awareness out there as much as all the

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other companies have been with a much larger track record

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and time in basiness.

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So well, I appreciate you being candid, and you know,

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like you said, you know, I'd never even thought about

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it until we, like you said, we talked before we

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hit record, right, is you know whatever.

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The other three company, the ones you've see in the front.

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Are not the grads and not you know what I mean,

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they're representatives of the company. And you're behind your table, right,

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that's your name, your name on the company, right, and you,

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like you said, you're not hiding, you're not behind the curtain,

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and so that's refreshing and I definitely appreciate that about

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you and I'm sure others do, uh as well. Again,

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like you said, you'll answer, you know, you'll answer whatever

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question someone may have. Just I just hope, like like

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I try to do people, you know, ask them tactfully

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and respectfully.

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Rather than you know yahoo. But yeah, so.

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You know, like we were talking earlier too, people coming up,

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they're all response, I don't have back and forth, or hey,

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let's go outside and finish this discussion.

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You know, that's I don't have. It never gets to that.

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So you know, I think if given a couple of

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minutes or whatever timeframe, you know, as long as I

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answer the question and they can see my eyes, see

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my body language and know that I'm trying to be

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as transparent as I possibly can be and be honest

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about it. You know, in this market too, there's so

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much misconception and news today can be not the news tomorrow,

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and so I always try to just be just be

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consistent with who you are.

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You know, It's that's another cliche, but you know it

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doesn't matter.

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So yeah, no, no, it's well said.

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All right, Mike, I got to ask your opinion, right,

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counterfeit cards, altering cleaning, adding color, I'm sure I love

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something now that's not a new thing, that's been around

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for years.

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But do you think we're seeing more of that?

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Well, it's hard to maybe because we have more information

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about it, we have more of it because there's just

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more cards be submitted. You know, when you see some

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of the metrics that PSA has put out, you know,

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their counterfeits went up whatever percent it's because they're getting

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more of them, or there's this more volume coming in

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and people just don't know, or if they do, you know,

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they're trying to get.

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It passed to you or past the grading service.

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So you know, by by the fact that you would

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expect if you're doing you know, ten thousand cards, you know,

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twenty years ago, and you're doing two million cards twenty

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years later, that there's going to be I don't know

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if it's a higher percentage per se or is it

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just you know, it's kind of rolls with the numbers.

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You know, not everybody has a nineteen eighty six Michael

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Jordan Flear that's counterfeit to pump the numbers up, you know,

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I'm sure most people would want an authentic line. I

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guess the real question is, you know, within this market

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that has become so hyperbolic and international. Are there bad

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actors out there, you know, creating things and doing things

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to really you know, kind of go within the two

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million cards submission or whatever the submissions are for any

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greating service that's out there.

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Are they trying to filter some of those in? I

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probably say yes.

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Now to what degree is debate, And that's based on

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what the grading services are seeing in their metrics, based

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on how many they've caught, how many are in holders,

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how many they kicked as you know as trimmed or

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recolored or whatever. And those those data points I'm sure

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are definitely available internally. I don't know what they don't

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know what they are externally per se, but I can

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tell you that recoloring seems to be a big one

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with Pokemon, both in coloring pencil and in pin to

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hide some of the chipping on the back, whether it's

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blue or the gold. So that that's that's definitely a

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big And if you again look at the numbers based

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on what PSAs receiving, if they're doing over a million

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and a half TCG Pokemon cards and it's like five

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six hundred thousand sports cards, then the numbers for that

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for those types of cards are probably pretty high, know

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in terms of you know, trying to improve the cards

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conditioned by coloring the card.

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The other ones.

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I don't know, you know, I don't We don't get

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a lot of fake six Jordan's. It's like, you know,

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when you have a computer virus, you're gonna get a

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lot more on a Mac or excuse me, a lot

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more on a Windows operating system because Windows is more

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people out Windows and Mac.

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So, I mean that's just kind of goes with the

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territory itself.

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Yeah, we you know, we've seen grading card companies get

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criticized PSA, really all of them, right, yourself included. I've

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seen like, hey, they they slabbed or they stickered this

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and it turned out to be you know, fake or altered.

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You know, how can that happen?

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I mean, how do you number I'll ask you sort

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of a two pronged question, right, how does that happen?

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And are these people who are doing.

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These bad things? And are they getting better? You know

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it's illegal, but are they getting better at their illegal

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craft through the year? Is it getting harder to detect

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detect this out there than it was ten or twenty

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years ago.

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Some of the Pokemon and TCG cards are definitely challenging

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to detect their coming. You know, some of them look

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really good, no doubt about it. And it's mainly a ultramon,

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you know, counterfeiting a nine tops Mickey Mantle. No, because

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you can't create recreate the paper stock. You know, I

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haven't seen that done ever T two six, Honus Wagner, Nope,

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haven't seen one of them come close to being original.

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So and I don't think you would.

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Find or unless it was a glaring error, any gradient

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service with their salt would have holded or have holded

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anything in the vintage sports, primarily in the counterfeiting world

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or whatever. Alteration trimming and whatnot has always been kind

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of the thing or something that anyone could do, you know.

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You know, it doesn't take a you know, a three

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D printer to make a new card type thing.

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It.

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You know, you need a cutter or whatever instruments being

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used to improve the edge or corners of a card.

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You know, mainly they leave Traditionally they leave signatures to

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the cut straations on the edge, and people will use

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old cutting blades to mirror what it looks like.

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They'll age the card by adding you.

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Know thing to dirt it up basically to so I

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always call it like you know, when you move bark

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from a tree, you see the new underlinements of the tree,

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much like paper be cut something that's been oxidized and

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exposed to air and you know, wear or use.

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It looks dirty, it looks like it looks time period,

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so to speak.

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And if you cut it, it's going to show a

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wider or cleaner edge. People will try to hide that

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and doctor it up to fool the graters and whatnot.

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So yeah, it's a challenge, but you know that's no

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there's no greating service that wants to hold your cards

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that have been trimmed or counterfeit you.

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You don't. You're not gonna have a long shelf life.

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That's just a fact. So no, I think where.

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Everyone's doing what they can, we're doing everything we can

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on our end.

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Relative to using machine.

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Learning to help us with size, to help be more

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consistent with centering. Even though we can grab a loop

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lens and mic it out to micrometers and get the

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exact stuff on the left, right or the top to bottom,

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it's nice to have with the what the learning system

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is telling us.

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Its opinion is and then we marri it up.

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It's like having a second automated greater with you. So

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it's an assistant really to help thing and honestly help

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speed up, you know, because if you're taking time to

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loop every card in terms of identifying centering, it takes time,

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and to have something that's close to it and then

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you can verify it if needed, then.

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00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:36.080
You know there's there's that sizing.

235
00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:39.159
You know immediately whether or not the card is two

236
00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:40.559
and a half by three and a half from nineteen

237
00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:42.960
fifty seven to present, and you can you know, evaluate

238
00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.480
the card and go forward, go forward from that. Ultimately,

239
00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.080
it's going to be what your experience is and looking

240
00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:48.919
at those cards though.

241
00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:51.440
You know, you can have a card that measures exactly

242
00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:52.919
the factory spects and it.

243
00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:55.480
Still could be altered and or trimmed, and that's going

244
00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:57.399
to be up to you and how much experience you

245
00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.559
have with that issue to determine that. Only call it

246
00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:02.600
once you know, you get scared and don't grade it,

247
00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:04.879
and then it comes back and then seen again a

248
00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:06.879
couple months later or whatever it may be, and you

249
00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:07.320
grate it.

250
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:09.799
So there's the built in incnsisteny. So really you have

251
00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:12.039
to grade what you can't take, you know, if you

252
00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:14.440
really and you have to articulate what you see.

253
00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:16.600
So if in fact, you're going to call something that

254
00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:19.000
cannot be holder for whatever reason, you've got to be

255
00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:21.919
able to articulate that. It'll it'll resonate more with the

256
00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:24.799
grading process, and that makes you more consistent as a

257
00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:29.799
greeting service. And I think you or the submitters at large,

258
00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:32.480
once you start seeing what the greeding servers are calling it,

259
00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:35.759
that way, you can hopefully get more educated about how

260
00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:38.080
we're seeing it, and then you can have be a

261
00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:40.440
stopgap or a filter before those cars ever come to

262
00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:41.200
a greater's desk.

263
00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:44.360
Yeah, it's funny, you know, I almost feel like it's

264
00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:50.080
a chess match right between grading companies and graders and

265
00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.759
the people doing you know the bad thing.

266
00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:56.000
They trimming, altering, making just a fake card.

267
00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:58.799
And it's like you got to just stay one step

268
00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:01.759
ahead of them as they improve what they do. Like

269
00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:06.320
it's like cat and mouse, right, and it's it reminds

270
00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:09.960
me like the FBI, Like the FBI will sometimes hire

271
00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:15.120
like former you know, burglars and crooks to pick their

272
00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:18.519
brain to like, hey, what are we looking for or

273
00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:20.879
you know, how do we stop it and that sort

274
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:23.759
of thing, or especially in with like hackers and computer

275
00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:27.279
don't they'll hire those folks and pay them and make

276
00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:31.519
them use their their craft for for good rather than uh,

277
00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:34.879
the other side. And it just sort of reminds me

278
00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:37.879
of that. And it's funny you mentioned because there's a

279
00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:40.000
lot of times, you know, when I'm thinking about what

280
00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:43.519
I do with the SPC Bolk Service. You know, obviously

281
00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:47.559
I'm handling those cards at my table as they're being subbed,

282
00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:51.639
and I can I'll see you, Jordan Rookie, and I'll know, like, hey,

283
00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:53.879
I have to be the bearer of bad news, like

284
00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:57.519
I'm ninety nine percent you know, this is not legit.

285
00:13:57.639 --> 00:14:00.600
Where did you get you know, what's the what's the providence?

286
00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:04.480
Where did you get it? And you know, and sometimes

287
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:07.519
someone will say, you know, thank you, that's what I thought.

288
00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:09.159
You kind of confirmed it.

289
00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:13.360
Other times people will say John, like I believe you,

290
00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:14.399
and I think so too.

291
00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:16.759
Can we can we just I'll pay for it, I'll

292
00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:19.120
send it. I just I got to know for sure,

293
00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:21.039
and I'm like, just be prepared.

294
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.639
It's probably going to be that, but you know, let

295
00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:28.840
them make that determination and you mentioned Pokemon. I'm not

296
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:32.720
a Pokemon guy, but obviously I get those cards through

297
00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:38.200
that that folk submission, and you know, per capital, I'll

298
00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:43.360
use that qualifier. I get more Pokemon cards back ungraded

299
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.759
for like you said, either altering or just being playing

300
00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:52.080
out a fake comparably speaking to the sports counterparts, I

301
00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:54.240
guess you know, why do you think that is? Is

302
00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.360
it just maybe easier? It's just just because it's blowing

303
00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.320
up right now. You know, people will tell you, like

304
00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.759
right now, Pokemon's even hotter than the sports card market.

305
00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:07.679
Is it as simple as that?

306
00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:10.759
Or why do why does it seem like we're seeing

307
00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:14.399
more you know, fake and altering on the poking side.

308
00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:16.279
It's exact way, and you.

309
00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:18.360
Just hit all the you just checked all the boxes

310
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.559
in terms of why you know it's it's the number

311
00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:22.679
one submitted card right now by a factor of like

312
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.600
two and a half times to its sports you know contemporary. Uh,

313
00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:29.200
you know, it's all made now, so it's all modern.

314
00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:31.279
So if you had a if you had a you know,

315
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:34.320
a print shop that was legit, and you could go

316
00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:36.320
to two places that will do it for you in

317
00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:38.480
the Far East, you you can get away with a

318
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.879
lot of stuff, especially because there's a lot of people

319
00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:43.399
collect that raw, you know, in in our market. As

320
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.600
you know, if you get something that's cheaper than it

321
00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:47.799
usually goes, you think you got a deal. And so

322
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.559
it's like your natural reaction to not think that there's

323
00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:52.559
something wrong with the card and celebrate the fact that

324
00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:54.799
you got it for cheaper than what it actually goes for,

325
00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:57.200
and you kind of rationalize that in your mind that

326
00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:59.440
you got a deal and you're not even thinking about

327
00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:02.759
whether it's authentic or not. At least the collectors, you know,

328
00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:07.039
the dealers have more awareness on what they should look for.

329
00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:08.600
There's enough information out there.

330
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:11.159
Time to hear from one of our great sponsors, but

331
00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:13.519
Sportscard Nation will be right back after that.

332
00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:17.679
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333
00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:21.080
your PSA and other grading submissions. Their elite status improves

334
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turnaround times. Heck, they even provide the card savers. Their

335
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chat rooms provide updates on all your submissions. They also

336
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offer wax options and single cards to cover all the bases.

337
00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:33.320
Check them out on Facebook at Iron Sportscards Group or

338
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:36.279
on the web at Ironsportscards dot com, or even give

339
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:40.559
them a call at one eight seven seven iron PSA

340
00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:42.159
Rob's got you covered.

341
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.799
Let's go. You are listening to the Sports cad Nation podcasts.

342
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:52.080
I've said this in interviews in the past. There's some

343
00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:54.159
guys that really know their stuff and they're happy to

344
00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.679
publish it on YouTube and Instagram and AUSO talk about

345
00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:59.279
what there's like subgroups, the guys that are really like

346
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:04.000
into ball, you know, or Pokemon Vintage or whatever. And

347
00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:05.960
you know, those guys are some of the best detectives

348
00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.880
out there too, and I'd be I'd be an idiot

349
00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.480
not to listen to what they're seeing trend wise and

350
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:13.519
everything else. I think the grading service as a whole,

351
00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:16.839
if they're smart, they're looking at these specialists and different

352
00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:19.160
little nooks and crannies of the hobby and see what

353
00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.519
they have and you know, kind of use them as

354
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:24.640
a as a as a hub for trends that are happening.

355
00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:27.160
What do you you know, how does it work? You know,

356
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.279
you've seen some of the videos where you can take

357
00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:31.200
some of these Pokemon cards and literally take the top

358
00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:33.400
part of it and it just pulls right off like

359
00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:33.920
a sticker.

360
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:36.079
It literally is a sticker. It's not even a card.

361
00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.480
Well, it's a sticker card basically, but the way it's

362
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.000
produced is so, you know, not the way it was

363
00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.359
produced from the factory, and you can see it's you know,

364
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:45.519
and it's kind of infancy. I think they're going to

365
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.759
get better, honestly in terms of what's coming in Pokemon

366
00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:52.759
in particular. But I think if we all kind of

367
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:55.079
work together and you know, the grading services, where the

368
00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.200
buck stops with whatever grading and service you have, and

369
00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:59.160
what their experience is and what they're gonna put in

370
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.920
a holder, et cetera, et cetera. So just how, how

371
00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:03.960
what's the approach to make sure that you have guard

372
00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:05.680
rolls out to do as much as you can to

373
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.279
ensure that cards that shouldn't be in a holder don't

374
00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:09.119
end up in a holder.

375
00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:14.480
Yet, no, no doubt, And I agree, I guess you

376
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:18.680
know with I don't. I don't again, I don't do Pokemon,

377
00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:22.279
but I've seen just a lot more. I'll come back counterfeit,

378
00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:24.680
I could, you know, I'm more have to catch at

379
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:27.720
my table, Mike, I'm more have to catch a sports card.

380
00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:30.519
That's my sort of my lane. I've caught him.

381
00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:34.319
I've caught him before and again some people will still say, well,

382
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:36.960
and I still said that just for my own peace

383
00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.720
of mind, I want them to sort of give it

384
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:42.319
a thumbs up or thumbs down, and you know, and

385
00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:44.359
sometimes that that happens.

386
00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:46.759
You know, what do you when?

387
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:49.839
What do you say when someone says I get this

388
00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.039
all the time, Like someone doesn't like the grade they get,

389
00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:55.559
and they're like they'll say, well, the greater might have

390
00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:59.640
gotten an argument with his wife that morning, or you know,

391
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.799
and brought it to work. I mean, do you buy

392
00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:05.680
that or you think that's just sour great well?

393
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:08.880
I mean, you know, that's exactly my point with cause

394
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:11.519
and effect. You know, I got a bad card, you know,

395
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.240
I think I think if the Greatest Services were more

396
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:17.000
transparent about why the card graded the way it did,

397
00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:20.880
it'd be much more you know, helpful in having those

398
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.720
type of conspiratorial theories, you know, diminished basically because you know,

399
00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:28.000
for for NBA, every card that we do, or whether

400
00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:31.119
it's a graded card or a card that receives a sticker,

401
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.160
you get a heat map from us which tells you

402
00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:36.480
exactly where we have with the card. We don't you know,

403
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:38.759
dissect the whole card and give you every single problem.

404
00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:41.400
But mainly the main concern with the card and you know,

405
00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:43.359
is the upper left corner or is it, you know,

406
00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:45.519
a surface scratch or something. Just to kind of help

407
00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.039
you kind of get some more information than you know,

408
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.880
than what's currently available. You know, that helps as far

409
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.400
as a guy having a bad night with his lady

410
00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.519
or you know, I'm sure, hey, look, we're all human beings, right,

411
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.319
you know, if you're if you're pissed off, you're not

412
00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:03.400
happy with whatever is going on in your life. I

413
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.680
think there's a general sense that you could be more

414
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.880
conservative or you know, that kind of thing that's not

415
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.119
too far out of the realm. But that doesn't help

416
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.599
the service, That doesn't help your job. You know, I

417
00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:17.319
think nobody wants more customer complaints. Nobody wants nobody wants that,

418
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.519
So to do that would just be adding accelerant to

419
00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:23.400
and it's something that already exists and you don't have

420
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:23.759
to do it.

421
00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:24.920
Just do your job. You know.

422
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:27.440
It's if you're a professional, I'm sure you could say,

423
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:29.200
look like I had a bad night, don't I doubt

424
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:30.440
it was because he got in a fight with this.

425
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:31.920
He just had a bad night, you know.

426
00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:35.480
So it's like it's like an athlete right. These guys

427
00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:35.960
are great.

428
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:39.119
They could go oh for four and strike out three times, right,

429
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.680
and the next night go four for four or two

430
00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:44.240
home runs and then six hour the eyes like, I

431
00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:46.400
get it, you know. I like the fact that you

432
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.400
said like your heat and epic because one of the

433
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.119
questions I get back when uh, when grating's done and

434
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:55.759
I'm returning the cards and someone that maybe doesn't like

435
00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.039
the grade or like, hey, what.

436
00:20:57.680 --> 00:20:58.880
What caused this eight?

437
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:02.880
Let's say, you know, and there's really no explanation, and John,

438
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:03.839
look at this card.

439
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:05.839
What do you see like can you see it?

440
00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:06.119
Like?

441
00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:08.960
And I'm like, well, you know, look at it under

442
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:13.039
you know, magnification too, like sometimes you can't always see

443
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:16.839
things just with with the with the naked eye. So

444
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:19.839
I always say, you know, And that's even before sending

445
00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:23.920
the grading, Mike, not not after the fact. But it's

446
00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:26.880
nice that you kind of you're letting the suburb know,

447
00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.880
like here, here's why this got this grade. So that

448
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.240
sort of takes that guessing game out that I have

449
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.839
to play sometimes with some of my subbers where they're like, John,

450
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:37.640
what do you see here?

451
00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:39.119
Like I don't see it?

452
00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:41.920
Like I don't get it like this and it puts

453
00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:44.119
me in a weird spot, like you know what I mean,

454
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:47.079
It's not I'm not like, it's not I shy away from.

455
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:49.680
But I'm like, I don't know, there's you know, there's

456
00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.039
something like you know, and I always have at my table,

457
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:53.759
I always have.

458
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:55.240
Like a one of these.

459
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.039
I actually have one right here, but I one at

460
00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:00.680
my show tall like just a magnification and right, look,

461
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:04.720
any tool you can use beforehand that maybe you know.

462
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:07.720
That was one of the early mistakes I made when

463
00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:10.319
I was grading my cards back in you know, twenty

464
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:14.000
years ago, is I gave myself too many passes, Like

465
00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:17.559
I see somebody like, ah, that's a minor, no big deal,

466
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:21.359
you know, And you learn by trial and error, like yep,

467
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:23.160
you know they're doing their job.

468
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:25.119
It's not a no big deal to them.

469
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.839
You're giving yourself a free pass, but that's not what

470
00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:33.839
they're going to do or should do, right, And I've learned,

471
00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:36.799
you know, And I think sometimes we're all guilty of that,

472
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.519
right when we critique ourselves. Sometimes we'll be a little easy,

473
00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.480
easier on ourselves than maybe someone else would. I just think,

474
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:47.200
like you said, it's huge human nature and that sort

475
00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:51.440
of thing. One last question before we kind of you know,

476
00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:54.599
I've had this debate with sometimes people, whether it be

477
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:58.319
on the podcast or even at a show, there's people

478
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:01.359
that say, you know, John, in the art world, right,

479
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:06.759
they bring pictures back, they you know, re recondition them,

480
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:11.720
they'll fix them so they're as close to like original form,

481
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:15.359
and it's not viewed as altering. They're still up in museums,

482
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:20.440
they're still protected security systems. Like I don't think adding

483
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:24.440
a little color to a car or rolling a crease

484
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:27.720
out if it keeps the same size, if that's possible,

485
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:32.119
I just think that's kind of what the art world does.

486
00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:35.680
It should be more widely accepted in the hobby. And

487
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:39.799
I disagree. They're just two different they're two different genres,

488
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:43.839
and so while one may be sort of like accepted,

489
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:46.799
I don't think that necessary means we have to accept

490
00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:50.160
that in the hobby. I'm sure you've heard that argument before.

491
00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:52.720
Kind of you know what, you know, I get that

492
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.079
all the time. How how do you you know what's

493
00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:58.319
your response when someone maybe brings that up to you,

494
00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:01.519
as as someone in the great So yeah, I mean it.

495
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.160
You know, forever it's been trading cards, that's not allowed

496
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:08.319
you know, in coins, uh, you know you can dip

497
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:08.680
a coin.

498
00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:10.960
Uh, you know you can uh.

499
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.119
In comic books you can restore, in art you can restore.

500
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:17.359
In cars, you restore for whatever reason are are collectible.

501
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:20.480
That's just the way it's always been. I will say

502
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:22.880
that we don't NBA. We're not guessing, you know. And

503
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:25.119
there's a lot of cards have been stored in the

504
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:28.599
in screw once forever. H Greden services front on that

505
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:31.559
now because it, you know, leaves a shininess to the

506
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:34.400
top of card, and they are saying it's altered, and

507
00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:37.000
you know, it's I think maybe that's kind of kicked

508
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:40.279
the can a little too far in my opinion, because ultimately,

509
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.960
if a card has been altered or its stock has impressed,

510
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.720
and it affects the thickness of the card, so you

511
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:49.079
have a nice thick edge and then it gets really

512
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.519
narrow in its thickness towards the corner to improve the

513
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.000
corner that's altered, no doubt, Okay, but I can't throw

514
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.200
a dart and see a card that I see it

515
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:02.000
before and after and everything, you know, measures out. The

516
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:06.960
stock is professionally to the mics are professional to the

517
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:10.119
factory or you know, origination of that. So it's like

518
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:12.559
that that. You know, if you take your finger and

519
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:14.720
lick a corner right out of a pack, some people

520
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:16.039
will call that alternate card.

521
00:25:16.359 --> 00:25:16.559
You know.

522
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:19.799
If the Greater can't pick it off, it's not or

523
00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:23.960
in our opinion, you know, so coloring not going to happen.

524
00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:27.640
Removal of color. Then it can be graded because the

525
00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:29.960
color isn't there anymore, and it gets downgraded based on

526
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:31.039
what the card looks like.

527
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.680
Trimming, No, if you can see a trimmed.

528
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:37.240
Edge, even if it measures and you can be consistent

529
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:39.440
to that, you got to call it, you know. Uh,

530
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:42.160
the pressing part is always kind of a wabbler because

531
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:43.079
if it's done right.

532
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:45.680
You know, it's like fingerprint fingerprint wiping.

533
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:46.079
You know.

534
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:49.559
If you people think that that's no good, well, how

535
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:51.599
can you tell you know? I mean you have to

536
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:53.039
go on what you can see, not what you know

537
00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:55.200
people think they know, or what it looked like before

538
00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:57.799
I can tell you that. No Greater wants to put

539
00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:59.720
their name on something or have it go into a

540
00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:02.799
whole or unless it meets the standards for what you've

541
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:05.319
done and how you do it for the service. So

542
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:07.720
that's that's, that's it in a back of tricks. So

543
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.480
I know, you see sometimes you'll see cards that you know,

544
00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:12.920
I see. I've seen our message boards over the years

545
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:16.039
before and after and it's like, wow, that's you know,

546
00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:17.640
really good, and they'll call it. But like then you

547
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:19.799
see it in person, you're like, what, God, Like, I

548
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:21.400
don't know if I would have caught that, you.

549
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:23.160
Know, so completely transparent.

550
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:25.079
I'd love to say I'm a super greader and I

551
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:27.960
and I see everything, excuse me, and I sure try to.

552
00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:30.319
Some things are just you can't and you just have

553
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.519
to be consistent to whatever you're saying. That's why I

554
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:35.200
said earlier, we grade what we see, not what we think,

555
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:37.279
because what we think is going to be the line's

556
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:38.759
gonna be all over the place, and it's when you're

557
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:40.519
gonna have a lot of income. So just keep up

558
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.039
the guard rails, do your best, stick to the standard,

559
00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:44.160
and let let's ships fallward.

560
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:47.279
They may yeah, I agree, well said, And you know

561
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:50.880
it's you know, it's it's crazy, right what some of

562
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:54.920
these folks are like developing new new techniques to try

563
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.480
to try to fool you guys, right, that's all.

564
00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:59.960
And you know what I mean, and that's never.

565
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.519
That's no never going away with the new, the new

566
00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:07.799
technologies that come out every year. It just keeps you

567
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:10.799
on your toes. I'm sure makes your job a little

568
00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:15.400
more difficult than it has to be sometimes, I'm sure. Well, Mike,

569
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:17.960
I appreciate you making some time. I know you're a

570
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:22.000
busy guy, traveling, being at the front of that table

571
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:26.319
at the shows and and other things. I appreciate you

572
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:29.319
making some time. I always give the guests kind of

573
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:33.680
the final word. Social media's what's coming anything you want

574
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:38.039
to plug website, take your time, get all that information

575
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:39.960
out there for the listener.

576
00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:40.680
Sar, thank you.

577
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:45.480
Basically, our website is grading dot n b are, Our

578
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:48.160
instagram is grading dot NBA. Trying to keep things consistent

579
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:51.079
and easy. We do a lot of announcements of our show,

580
00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:55.680
travel and whatnot on both the website and the Instagram channel.

581
00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:58.119
In particular, we're trying to get more social with Twitter

582
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:00.839
and or x and YouTube and whatnot.

583
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:03.079
We're a small company, we're growing.

584
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:05.079
We just had our first job fair here at the

585
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:07.559
front row of Portland Show. We're gonna have another one

586
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:11.359
in the Tacoma show next month. We're hiring hiring big

587
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:13.680
time right now, just like everybody is. The market's so

588
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:15.920
big and if you're if you're not hiring right now,

589
00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:19.759
something's wrong. So uh, I can say that we have

590
00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:22.599
our new holder that's going to be coming up at

591
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:25.559
the National, hopefully for tall Boys and for T threes

592
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:27.839
and five by seven star, all that good stuff.

593
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:28.759
So we're excited about that.

594
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.759
We've got some great strategic partnerships we're gonn announce going

595
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:32.480
into the National.

596
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:36.359
We've got some great uh card sales for NBA graded.

597
00:28:36.279 --> 00:28:38.680
That we're gonna pump that have gone uh that are

598
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:41.480
we've been kind of keeping off grid right now, uh

599
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:43.960
and they're gonna be announced by both the buyer and

600
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.200
the seller in terms in terms of what's been sold.

601
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:47.799
So I think some of those will be kind of

602
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:51.839
eyebrow raising, great positive new and we're looking forward to

603
00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:54.079
just keep growing the brand, keep going to shows, keep

604
00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:56.680
spreading the word, letting people know how we do what

605
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:58.559
we do, how we do it so we can kind

606
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:01.640
of clear up some of the you know, the perceptions

607
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:04.440
about greeting the greeters or whatever it is, and sticking

608
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.279
with the facts relative to the business case and why

609
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:09.119
it's needed and.

610
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:10.359
Just you know, and be us.

611
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:13.440
I'm gonna be me enjoy the enjoy the hobby. Ultimately,

612
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:15.440
the hobby is supposed to be enjoyed. The money has

613
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:18.000
gotten so big we throw terms right, ten k and

614
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:20.160
twenty k like it's five bucks.

615
00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:22.640
So you know, it's a it's a weird uh, a

616
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:23.480
weird markt right now.

617
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:25.680
But you know it's one market that no one's ever

618
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.599
seen before happen, and like you, I hope it goes

619
00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:29.279
for as long as.

620
00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:31.200
So yeah, no doubt.

621
00:29:31.240 --> 00:29:35.240
Well said again, I appreciate you, you know, taking some

622
00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:38.000
time out of your business schedule, uh and giving us

623
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:42.160
a little bit here for the podcast. So Mike continued

624
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.759
success and growth and all the good things that come

625
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:49.039
along with that. Thank you, John, Thank you to Mike

626
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:53.119
Baker for making some time for us. Very busy man

627
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:57.519
and with the national coming up, and you know, as

628
00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:01.119
he said on both episodes, he's got some irons in

629
00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:06.559
the fire as he expands his business, including potentially overseas.

630
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:07.680
And what have you.

631
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:12.039
So you know, it was a long time coming, but

632
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:17.119
glad he made some time for us, and maybe somewhere

633
00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:19.680
down the line we'll have him back on. So I'm

634
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:23.720
going to wrap up today's episode and we'll see you

635
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:27.759
here in next week and again if you're at the

636
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:31.480
National and you see me and you want to have

637
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:34.839
a conversation or shake a hand, love to do so

638
00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:37.839
love meeting people in the Hobby. Heck, the tagline of

639
00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:40.440
the show, the Hobby is the People, So you can't

640
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:43.720
beat You can't have that tagline and not like people

641
00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:44.880
or want to meet people.

642
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:45.960
So hope to.

643
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.359
See some of you at the National. And whether I

644
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:50.559
do or I don't, I hope you have a great National,

645
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:53.240
get all the cards you want and have a great time.

646
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:56.359
That's what I'm going to try to do. So hopefully

647
00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:57.319
see you there.

648
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:02.400
Time for all the announcer of the week.

649
00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:08.599
Hey what's up your boy? Catob Adminster Catob on Twitter

650
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:11.000
And remember the Hobby is the People.

651
00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:13.759
If you'd like to be the Hobby is the People

652
00:31:13.799 --> 00:31:16.640
announcer of the week to a one F or MP

653
00:31:16.759 --> 00:31:20.720
three file and send it to Sportscard Nation PC at

654
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:23.519
gmail dot com.

655
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:24.599
Sega Night Kane