'What do I look for in a Vintage Card?(and also modern too) Hobby Quick Hits E218

0:01 Hobby, not Quick Hits, delivering that breaking hobby newstarloaders. You want to know those hot Josh card shopshop. You've got your copy, your host John new name name, Hello, everybody, Welcome to Episode to eighteen of Hobby Quick Hits. Today's episode deals with what do I look for when I buy a vintage card? And I get asked out a lot because I, you know, doing the SGC folks subbing, I often get asked that, like, what do you look for when you're buying a card, whether you're grading it or not? Like, what, uh, what are the first things you noticed? What can you give a pass on? What can you not give a pass on? What's the deal breaker?

1:03 So I'll be talking about that today because it's again it's a question I get quite often, and beauty's in the eevy beholder right that different people may answer that in different ways. Centering might be bigger to one than the corners to another. Surface may be a huge deal to one and not a big deal to somebody else. So again, there's no right answers here. I'm only sharing sort of my approach when buying vintage cards and even even graded ones. Right when I look at a graded card. Sure it's got a grade, right, but no, no, two graded cards look exactly alike. So where do I put the emphasis?

1:50 Right? So that's what the show is going to be talking about the topic, and we're gonna I'll get into a little bit even with modern and ultra modern there, you know, kind of my theory on the difference between a nine and a ten, which is not as much as you would think the prices are, but maybe the appearance isn't. So that's what we're tackling today, going over some news product release schedule as well. So with that being said, let's hear from our great sponsor, the Sports Card Shop at Moco, and then we'll get the show started. Okay, Now, a quick word from our great sponsor, followed by the new product release schedule. Then we'll go around the hobby verse to tell you all the latest hobby happenings and news. Then we'll tackle today's topic of discussion.

2:41 Hi, this is Pat Hughes, Cubs announcer, coming to you from the Sports Card Shop in beautiful New Buffalo, Michigan. The Gocher family has built an incredible place here for collectors to buy, sell, and trade cards and memorabilia, be sure to stop buying. Let them show you around the Sportscardshop dot com, connecting sports athletes, the hobby and collectors around the world. Hi, this is Alan Pinkett and I'm here to tell you the Gocher family has done it again. They've just opened up the Sport Card Shop in downtown Valparaiso, Indiana, and it is awesome. If you're a collector, you need to check this place out. Tell them Alan sent you, and get a free gift on your first visit.

3:34 All right, let's get into the new product release schedule for the next couple weeks. It's the Christmas season as well, so maybe some of these products will be under your tree or someone else's treated that you were nice enough to have Santa bring it to them. Let's start with the seventeenth These are all December seventeenth releases. Twenty twenty five. Pinnini National Treasures Racing twenty twenty six, Sage Football Low Series, Blaster and Hobbies twenty twenty five, Tops Cosmic Chrome Baseball twenty twenty five, Tops Chrome Update Series Baseball, Megas twenty twenty five, Tops Heritage High Number Baseball twenty twenty four, twenty five Upper deck ingrained ke In Icons Hockey. Let's go to the following day, the eighteenth of December twenty twenty five, twenty six Tops Chrome, Basketball, Blasters, Breakers, Delight, Hobby, Jumbos and Megas. Same day, the eighteenth, twenty twenty five Tops Chrome Let Boo Boo tenth Anniversary. Don't ask Me, I Have No Idea twenty twenty four, twenty five Tops HUIFA Champions League, Definitive Soccer. Let's go to the nineteenth now twenty twenty five Metal Authentics Volume two, twenty twenty five,

5:04 Panini National Treasures Collegiate Football twenty twenty four, twenty five Tops YUWIFA Club Competitions, Merlin Chrome Soccer, Hobby and Breakers, Delight, Yugi, Oh, Phantom Revenge twenty twenty five, Panini Rookie and Stars Football Moving now to the twenty third of December twenty twenty five. Panini Impeccable w NBA twenty twenty five, Tops, Marvel Studios, Chrome, Blasters and Breakers, Delights, Christmasy Brings You a Few Products twenty twenty five, Panini Flawless Baseball twenty twenty five, Panini Prism Racing twenty twenty five posts, Stratos Baseball Hobby heat Seekers, Day After Christmas twenty twenty five Leaf Eclectic Signature series Football Hobby and Mythical versions Same Day twenty six, twenty twenty five Leaf Red Carpet d twenty ninth brings you twenty twenty five Tops five Star Baseball. The thirtieth will bring you twenty twenty five on ex Vintage football, Hobbies and Megas, twenty twenty five Tops Star Wars Hyperspace, twenty twenty four, twenty five Tops YUIFA Club Competitions, Merlin Chrome

6:34 Soccer Blaster also same product but museum collection, hat trick and Hobby and last couple here closing out the last day of December to thirty first, twenty twenty five Historic Autographs President of the United States, the White House in twenty twenty four to twenty five Tops UIFA Club Competition, Inceptions, Soccer Lots of products. There are almost thirty to be exact for your ripping pleasures. They choose wisely. Happy ripping. Let's go round the hobby verse and catch up on this week's hobby news.

7:16 And find out all right. Let's start with a big sale of a single car. The twenty of twenty the two thousand and three Exquisite Emblems of Endorsements Kobe Bryant PSA eight number to fifteen, but numbered eight to fifteen his jersey number just sold with buyer's premium for one point two two million dollars, a record for that car. Speaking of record sales, there's a new babblehead Champion of twenty twenty five. It was the New Pope, hailing from Chicago. But move over, hope.

8:01 Another person from the Midwest, the National Bibblehead Hall of Fame, who produces a lot of these bibbleheads, released a Indiana football coach Kurt Signetti, sold out quicker than the Pope, which sold out pretty fast in its own right, and so much so they actually did something they normally don't do. They made a second printing a second edition. Another reason they made that second edition is coach Signetti has putting all his proceeds from the Bibblehead donating him to the Riley's Children's Hospital I believe of Indiana. So very cool on coach Signetti. Right, we just got some crazy coach Midwest coach news. Right, let's talk about a good story.

8:50 So good on you, coach signetti, all proceeds going to the Riley's Children's Hospital on his bibblehead those available from the National bibble Ahead Hall of Fame. Let's talk about some exclusive signings. Starting in F one F one Superstar Max for staffing signing a e commerce global deal with Fanatics. He'll have his own run website run by Fanatics, which will feature his autos, relics, race gear, inscriptions and things of those. Ilk exclusive deal with Fanatics. Another one another one.

9:31 Ikon Shop Limited of the UK is extending their longtime twenty plus year deal with Lino Messi. They're just extending it his exclusive autograph deal. But they announced that they'll be using something called triple lock technology, and this is pretty cool. I read up on it. It's like your name says, triple lock. Three verifications right the item itself and the co we'll have matching tamper proof holograms. There'll be an actual photo of each item that's being signed that will correspond with the item you purchase. And every item will have an NFC chip embedded it inside it which can be scanned by a phone and give all the pertinent information. So maybe we'll see more deck technology, especially with all the scandals that's coming out with with forgeries and autographed items. Another one one more signing. Upper Deck, as we know, does mainly hockey, not only hockey, but mainly hockey, had a deal with the Canadian you know, a hockey team juniors. Now it extends. For the first time ever, they've signed a long term deal with the USA Hockey Young junior juniors. So we'll start seeing products

11:03 with the USA junior hockey team pretty quickly. Here no details given, but just phrased as a long term deal. And I just think that good on Upper Deck right there at American Company. And now they have the USA Hockey under contract. Speaking of new deals, right there's gonna be a new show on the Major League Baseball Network, a channel I watch quite a bit of Sundays every Sunday, a thirty minute program with longtime hosts Greg Amsinger. It's gonna be called Pack in Time. Now. It's not really a hobby show per se, and it's sort of a manufactured hobby show. But each episode he will have a stack of cards and he will pick a card from that stack to reveal who he is interviewing on that week's episode. So it's not random. That would been cool if that could have been done some way, But there is a baseball card tie in. One of the things with the show is no Hall of famers. These will all be non Hall of Fame players, kind of a where are they now and checking back in with them.

12:18 I know Shewan Dunstan is one of the first ones they are doing. Congratulations to one of our show guests, alumnus Ray Shutte, has a new title formerly of the National Fame and others. He did stop before the National. He is now working with the Front Row Card Show to kind of build that juggernaut up as they expand their operations. So congrats to Ray. I'll reach out to him to personally do that, but I wanted to announce that here. Speaking of the National, let's finish with a little National news. They announced there'll be one hundred and fifty more dealer tables at this year's National. Some will be on the main floor and others will be If you remember from last year on that second floor expansion, it was pretty tight in there last year. When I think they are going to open that up a little bit more, or at least we can only hope. So that's the news and let's get back to the program.

13:31 And now, all right, let's get into the topic at hand, Right, what do I look for when I buy cards, you know, especially PC, right vintage cards for my PC, whether it be a Jackie you know, I collect Hall of Fame rookie cards. I tend to buy them. Already graded, truth be told, but that's not one hundred percent across the board. I do buy cards raw that are going into my PC, and then grade in myself as well. So I do I do both. I buy them already graded. I buy them raw and then get them graded. And that's interesting too, buying them raw, because I'm trying to obviously buy the best looking raw cards to get the best potential grade. And obviously there's a budget involved, right, I don't have a a endless amount of bank account, right, So I got to be I don't want to say strategic, but I got to be smart about how I go about that, right.

14:32 And whenever you. Buy a raw card, especially you know, with the intent to grade it, right, there's you can lose potentially there. Now, generally, when I buy a raw card degrade, it's usually for my PC. So that loss is what it is, right, I don't want to say I'm not worried about it, but it's a little bit different than if I was buying it to resale and be upside down. And so you kind of. You know, when you look at a rack car to what I do is I always try to you know, I'm not a grader, but I've done grading enough doing the bulk something. I've kind of got a knack for looking at. A raw card and maybe sort of assessing it with what grade I think it is around right, and then, knowing what that would go for already graded, try to, you know, bargain the price based on that. Again, there's no guarantees. I may say, man, that looks like a four or five, purchase it and it gets a three right or three and a half or you know, again there's no guarantees in this hobby, as we all know.

15:38 So you've got to, you know, you got to put your own assessments on it. I'm fairly accurate, but no one's perfect. And again grading is sub subjective to begin with. So how many times, right do someone crack a four out and it comes back a five right, or someone crack out of five? I think it's even high and then it comes back before and they lose. Right, it's all subjective. It's hate to say like this. It's almost like a game. It's almost like a lottery ticket. But if you do it long enough, you sort of can assess a card in your own mind at least sort of get a little target range of what grade you think it does fall into. And you know, it's funny doing the bolk selling. People will come up to my table and ask me, you know, what do you think this will get when I sub it with and I said, listen, I'll give you my opinion, but it's not it's not the NLB all. I'm not the greater, and don't hold me to it. If it grades lower, don't hate me.

16:37 And if it grades higher, good for you, right, And so I usually will give my opinion, and a lot of times it's funny when they come back. I've always forget I'm dealing with so many cards, But that person a lot of times will say, John, you're pretty spot on, are pretty close. So again comes with experience and just kind of knowing what they look for when it comes to grade folks too. And I don't want to make this whole topic about grading because it's not. But remember they're looking under minimum ten ten times magnification, so you should be doing really the same. All right, let's so what do I look for? You know, what are my You know, we all hear I appeal, right, and that goes almost goes without saying, right, A card can look better than its actual grade. And I have a Jackie Robinson rookie that fits that bill. I have a Hank Aaron Rookie that fits that bill that you know, the Jackies one and a half the Aaron's three and a half.

17:37 They both look if you've seen them, and maybe you know you're one of the folks that have. But anyone that sees them said, man, those you should resubmit them because we think those would get higher grades. Right, not going to do it, most likely, But that's what I appeal. Kind of that epitomizes what I is about. Some that looks better than the grade is. And I appeal. I'm in with grading, right. I appeal is not so much a raw card because it's not graded yet, and it is what it is. Right, So when I look at a card, right, what do I when I look at a raw card, what, what's kind of a deal break I get. I asked that, like, what do you look at and say that's I'm out right?

18:23 And to me, centering is one of the first things I noticed. If something's really not centered very well, you know, that's that's gonna. I don't want to say, turn me off. I guess maybe that is the best way to say it. I'm sort of gonna be already sort of down. Uh you know, more so obviously on the front, but even even the back, right, especially if the back is really off center, that's that's a deal breaker. Now does that mean I won't buy it? Uh No, not necessarily. It just means what I might pay for it. That that number just got a lot lower. But there are cards that the centering has. Like I was interested, I got a closer look, and then I'm like, I don't think I want to do it. So centering is probably the first one, you know. Number two surface for me too.

19:15 I don't like missing paper, you know, I like to be able to you know, when it comes to card backs, especially on the vintage card, I like to read that bio or the words on the back. Right, I don't want to even though we may know who the player is, right, I don't want a missing name on the back. You know, I really don't like paper loss unless it's a really fine, little small piece, maybe on the corners, around the edges, but if it's in the middle of the card, especially on the front and even the back, right where it affects the wording and you can't read it read the whole thing, that's that one hurts too for me. So surface, you know, will go centering surface creases, right, I don't mind, especially obviously on vintage cards, but I don't mind a small crease. I'd rather have a surface wrinkle in case for those that don't know. And I do get asked this, so I know not everyone does know. I apologize if you know, and you're like, John, thanks for telling me something.

20:24 I know. But what's the difference between a surface wrinkle and a crease. It's pretty simple. A crease goes through the front and back. It's parallel. So wherever the crease is you turn it over, you can see it on the back. A surface wrinkle, you'll see it on one side. And not the other. And that could be on the back too. You could have a surface wrinkle on the back. It doesn't go through the front. And vice versa. Could be on the front, doesn't go through the back. Obviously, the lesser of two evils the surface wrinkle. Rather have that than a crease. A crease is not a deal breaker unless it's just a bunch of them. Also, where the crease piers right, especially if there's just one. Where is it? Is it right in the middle of the card, like the card was like almost folded in half. Is it towards the edges the border? That has a lot to do it. Obviously, the more in focus the decrease is, like the main part of the card, the more of a deal breaker it might be for me. If it's towards the edges or bottoms. You know, you may not like it, but I might be able to say, you know what, I'm okay with that. That's not a deal breaker for me. And probably my last one that is my least bother some is corners. Right with vintage cards, obviously we all want the sharpest corners we can get, right, but you're gonna pay for those as well. Right corners don't bother me too much. And it's probably when I talk about my Jackie Rookie, which was my rail card,

21:57 it's it's probably what brought. The grade down. Right. The corners are not sharp, they're not crushed either, not terrible, but they're not They're not very good either. But the rest of the card presents very well. So that's you know, Sometimes you got to decide what the trade offs you're willing to make. It's like buying a card, like I need the heated seats, but I don't need the sunroof, right, I need the sunroof. I'm not worried about the heated seats. I live in Florida, you know, not me, but you know so whatever, you know, whatever you deem is is something you can't ignore or you need. It works like that in cards as well, not just cards. I know, I gave you a car analogy there, so for corners, for me, is probably my least deal breaker. Now, if it looks like a wheel that you could put on your car and use as a spare until you get a regular tire, you know that that would obviously be a deal break.

22:57 But if it's just. A little rounding, a little frayed, and it doesn't really affect the provenance of the rest of the card or the main you know, picture, then I can sort of give it a pass. Right, color we're talking about you're going back to the surface, right, color is huge, But you know many of these cards are over one hundred years old, eighty years old, sixty years old. When we're talking vintage, right, I don't mind a little fading, right, It's going to happen. It's going to continue to happen. Quite frankly, the cards are always deteriorating in some form of fashion. Obviously, if it's encased in a slab as a graded specimen, that the deterioration is going to be slower than something that's raw and out taking you know, sunlight and other forms of light that might break down some of those materials. But a little fadie, don't bother me.

23:53 But if it looks whitewashed, yeah, that's going to be you know, a deal breaker as well. Well. To me, it doesn't have to be perfect color, but it's it's it can't be too bad as well. What about snow, right, Prince snow. I know I have a buddy of mine that hates that he won't look at any card that has any print snow, and I always have this little I don't want to say argument, but a little debate with him, like it's so hard some some partcipit cards. It's hard to find cards without that prince snow right or those pixel dots. Like one of the first ones that I think of is the sixty ass rookie. Right, great card, not a crazy expensive card, but you know, a lot of them have those black dots and almost, you know, almost kind of is part of the card, right.

24:42 Every once in a while you see one that doesn't. But with my buddy's theory, he won't even look at that card. If it has that, you're eliminating about eighty percent of the as rookies by doing them. Obviously, if it's excessive, yes, but most of them have it. It's just to what degree. So a little bit of that isn't a deal breaker for me. Maybe a lot is. I guess it depends on the card. Where that Prince snow form, you know, is on the card. Again, you know, when we look at a card, right, where do our eyes just naturally go, as humans, right to the picture on the front of the card. So that's the first thing we're going to look at, and then we're going to work out from there. And again I'm just talking about the front here first, right, We're going to look at that main body of the card, and then we're going to work out from there. So the less defects or flaws in that main body of the card, the more I'm obviously going to be entered. Again, that's just me.

25:41 There's some people that you know, might say otherwise they're different. Right. Again, there's no right answers here. I'm just kind of sharing my takes on what I look for when it comes to buying vintage cards. So Prince Snow not a huge deal breaker to me unless it's really bad. You know, paper loss is corners. I probably give the biggest pass on centering is one of the first things I look at. I don't like a real off centered card or even you know, I don't want to say real. Not too many people like a real off centered card. But I'm a little more of a stickler, I would say, on the centering than some of the other things characteristics that we talked about. So, you know, I get asked a lot do you ever buy graded cards? And then with the purpose like that's undergraded and break them out, And the answer is really no. I've done grading or been involved in some facet of grading, whether it's grading my own cards or being a bolkesover for thirty years. They've been a bulksiver now working on three years. But I graded my first card thirty years ago, and maybe longer.

26:55 I don't even know anymore. But you know, when it comes to break, I've broken out two cards in my whole life. Maybe that makes me on the lower end of the spectrum. I don't know, but it's only been two cards. Could that number be higher? For sure? I've been told some you know, some of my personal collection. John, I'd resend that doesn't mean I'll do it, but I've heard that on more than one occasion. So I've only actually done it twice. And frankly, the two cards I did it too weren't even PC cards. They were actually cards for my show inventory that I really thought were undergraded. And you know, full disclosure, I was right on one and I was wrong on one. So the two times I've done it, one time I got a higher grade, one time I got the same grade. So again, nobody is you know, going to be one hundred percent myself obviously included how about modern cards, right, modern ultramartin right?

27:55 Obviously most of these are coming out of packs. That doesn't mean they're coming out of the packs. J meant we all know that this quality control can be a lost art sometimes. You know, when I buy modern and ultramodern card, I'm not looking at him with a fine tooth comb or even magnification. I'm looking at him with the naked eye. If something you know to me, if you can see something with the naked eye on a modern ultramodern card, right, there's your answer, right, probably not purchase that because you know I'm fine with a nine or ten on a modern card. I know that people will turn on their mic and tell you it's ten or bus right. I'm not that guy. An eight and eight is definitely hurts.

28:37 Right on a modern ultramont card. But nine, even an eight and a half I don't hate. I don't love either, but a nine or ten is what I strive for on a modern ultra modern card. And do yourself a favor. Think if you have a nine and a ten of the same card, put them next to each other, right, Or if you're at a show and the dealer has version of each of the same card, put them next to each other. And honestly they're not gonna look and nine times out of ten, no pun intended, those two versions are not going to look that much difficult, much different from each other, with the with the main exception at nine is probably gonna cost you significantly less than the ten. And how you know I know a guy not something I do, but I have another acquaintance that I know he loves going around and buying nines that you know he looks at him first of cards. He's interested with the sole purpose of cracking them and re sending them, hoping to make them tens, right, And I asked him. I saw him at the show a couple of weeks ago, and I asked him, like, what is your you know, knowing what he's doing, I'm like, what is your What is your success rate with the nine you're buying that you turned into tens? And he told me about sixty five percent?

29:59 So thirty five you know, I'm sure, I asked him. He goes, yeah, I kind of keep track. It's not exact science, but around that success rate. He goes, he has to be around that rate to you know, be profitable to come out ahead anything. He said, anything lower than really sixty percent, it's not worth the money he's spending to do it. So he says he's very picky, like he doesn't buy obviously, every nine he asks to see it, and he's looking at it, you know, he tells me, and I've seen him do this. He has a little pocket loop and he'll look at that nine, even though it's already graded. Take out that pocket loop magnification and look at that nine through the slab with the intent like, hey, can I make this a tent?

30:45 I think most dealers who he buys from, myself included, I know what he does, or pretty much even if he doesn't tell him, they could probably figure it out. You know, it's not rocket science. And here he. Said, as he bats about sixty five percent turning those in the tents, he's told me he's bought a couple of my nines and where he was successful. And so you know, someone would ask, does that make you feel bad now? Because I don't. I don't really crack and resubmit. I just told you I only do that with two cards. So, uh, he puts in the work, he should reap the rewards, right if I wanted to do that, I, frankly, I don't have the time to really uh do that kind of stuff, but he does, uh, and awesome for him and glad, you know, glad he did well with with a couple of purchases from me, and you know, hopefully you come back knowing that's the case and buy some more.

31:44 And I, you know, I see him not necessarily every show, but he does come back and sometimes we uh you know, could make a sale. So he's not the only person that does. I think we all know him. Maybe you do that listening uh to this podcasts and not wrong with that right to each their own. And he's done well with it. And and he told me not every card he does that with is for resale. Some of it are just PC cards he likes as well, but he wants him only in tens rather than nine, so he kind of you know, it's like a lottery ticketing and scratches it with that basis, uh in mind. So so there you go. So uh, you know again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What what might be a deal breaker for you might not be a deal breaker for someone else. You know, I say, corners aren't a deal breaker for me, maybe for you listening You're like man, I you know, corners is the first thing I noticed, and I don't want I don't want bad ones, right, and you're not wrong and I'm not wrong, right, it's it's it's beauty's in the eye again of the beholder.

32:51 So uh so I thought i'd share kind of what I do, my approach, uh and that sort of thing. And again they're you know, card collecting, sort of like fingerprints, and no two people do it exactly the same. So I hope you enjoyed the episode. We're gonna wrap it up. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.