Dr.Beckett is back E344

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What is up, everybody? Welcome to episode three forty four of Sports Coordination. We are one step closer to the National. I hope your July fourth weekend was a safe and fun one. I spent some time with family and friends on subsequent days and that was always fun.

Some you know, I have a few beverages, some barbecue and enjoy the freedoms that are bestowed upon us. We're one step closer to the National, one week closer to the biggest card show on the planet, and some you know, always look forward to It. Wasn't sure I was going a few months back, but I am and always privileged to do a couple of shows from the Mike Burkas main stage, and this year won't be any different. We got Hobby Hotline Live for an hour out and Sports Sports Coordination Live for an hour and I'll look for on my social media for exact dates, times and guests who might be up on stage with myself.

And always fun and always a privilege to do that. Speaking of always fun, Part two, Speaking of Nationals and Fun. My guest on this week's show is someone who hasn't missed a single National in the history of the Nationals, every single one, Doctor James Beckett. This is part two of our great conversation.

If you missed last week's show, part one, go back and check that out. But today the conclusion of our conversation, and we do talk about some national talk. So, you know, always great to have him on. It's been a while before I've had him on, so it was time to kind of chop up some hobby with him again.

So with that being said, enough enough Gibb or je Ebb, let's get to speaking with doctor James Beckett. All right, this is the second part of our conversation with doctor James Becket. We're going to start out here talking about the GameStop PSA relationship where where might won by the other one, you know, any kind of acquisition. There's been some rumors there and I really like doctor Jim's answers and really made me think about it in a different sort of way.

And that's that's that's intelligent conversation when somebody can make you see something that just sort of overlooked or didn't even think about. And that's what happens here. So hope you enjoyed us as much as I did. And so here we go.

I don't know if you've heard this. I think it's kind of crazy. I'll get your take. We don't have to spend a ton of time.

I read in more than one spot that you know, a rumor is that game Stop is going to buy PSA from collector Number one. I don't know they I didn't think they were for sale, and I just you know, when we look at game Stop. If you know game Stop's history, not a GameStop expert, but it wasn't very long ago. They were in trouble.

They were on the ropes and very close to getting knocked out. They made a comeback, you know, kudos to their CEO and others in that company that sort of got them off that ropes and into a stronger position. But when I think of their history and then I hear could they be buying PSA, I just scratched my head. I think that to.

Me, it's ludicrous. Well, we've seen crazy stuff in this hobby. Doctor Jim number one, I guess have you heard this and your thoughts on that potential I've. Read about it as a as a as a possibility, as a kind of a rumor, as a as But here's how it could make sense that people haven't said, is that if PSA wants to go public, there's two ways to go public.

There's more than one way to go. But the traditional way to go public is to do an IPO, to go on the road, to get investors to you know, to underwrite your stock, and to go out into the public market and see what happened. That's no fun. You know, it can be lucrative, it can be, but it's always a pain for my buddies that have done that.

The other way is to get acquired by a public an already public company and kind of like have a reverse merger. So if GameStop bought PSA, then ps they could rename it PSA or Collectors, and the price for p s A might be so high that they have controlling interest in the combined entity. And then and then they rename it Collectors because it's easy to rename a public company and financials will look great because you know, like you said, game stock, for a while there was seemingly smoking mirrors and now they've gotten they've they've made some good decisions lately. You know, they had that all that game stock stuff that was going on years ago.

But ps A completely legitimizes them. And if they if PSA really is getting a million submissions out of game Stop last year, then that and Nat turns on the board, Uh, it's they're they're they're kissing cousins already. And so that would be a way for PSA to go public, and that would be a liquidity event for Nat and his other investor that they could cash out or or let it ride with stock in the combined entity. So it's it's not outrageous.

Yeah, you know, that's why I asked you the question because I felt it was outrageous. But after hearing that answer, if. PSA advise game Stop, they're taking game Stop, which is a public company, then back private. PSA wants to be public, I think, and they've got a great story to tell and this is a way to have their cake and eat it too.

Perhaps just speculating, but you know it's speculating on speculation. But they could go public without game Stop too. It's not like that's their only salvation. Right, But like I said, to go separately the game Stop.

They maybe have had proof of concept that this last year that having whatever it is, thirty six hundred retail locations around the mainly the US, I guess is not a bad thing for their game stops getting more into cards, the buy sell trade aspect. You know, that's to me, it's not outrageous. And like I said, a PSA buys Game Stop, they're they're taking them private. And if PSA really wants to go public, they'd be with a partner that they already know, and they'd be like partners, and I think PSA would be the senior partner.

They I don't know if their revenues as much, but the PSA's profit margins are very strong, and their expansion story and their growth story is really strong. All Right, Well, you've sort of you know, like I said, when I've read that, I thought this was insane, but hearing you explain it like that made me. You know, you got to look at the big picture. Nat Turner's really smart.

He's really smart, you know. And and PSA has other really smart, big money investors behind him. They're not celebrity guys as much as they're really savvy big picture, Uh, investors that think and if not billions, at least millions, tens of millions, hundreds of mills, and PSAs has got a great story. So we'll see, we'll see.

So I'll sort of put you on the spot. We talked about the big four. Obviously there are other grading companies, Forensic Tag, many others. HGA is still sort of around.

Do you ever see a chance where a fifth grading company, an upstart, can can crack you know that that big league so to speak, Or you think it's just you're dealing with entities that just have too much history to give up their. Pert No, absolutely, a fifth one could come in, a sixth one could come in. It's not what we're in in the era of AI. You knows.

As AI gets more and more powerful and more and more useful for everyday tasks, then there could be some new entrants in grading. And now they're gonna have a trouble getting market recognition, but they're gonna be able to put out a product at the same or my guess is same or lower price, you know, and and the slabs will be you know, just as nice. Uh, there's there's already ones out there, John, and there and they're not terrible graders, they're just they don't have the secondary market results because people aren't willing to send big cards to them. But you know, I think it's a very I think it's more likely than not that there'll be a fifth or sixth in the next few years, in the next couple of years.

Yeah, okay, all right, So that should also be. A reason why SGC is reconsidering or p s A is reconsidering, you know, the the land the grading landscape, because I think I think it will broaden. Uh, And I think there's there's I'm already I'm aware of a brand new one that's that's on the horizon. Yeah, yeah, I think, I know, I think I know the one.

You're talking about stuff as well. Do you think fanatics still wants to get into grain space? And like, I don't want to see that because that's you know, we talk about you when when you started your company and you're not buying cards, a conflict of interest. I don't want a grading company also, you know, manufacturing cards and grading their own cards potentially, you know, do you think has that ship said? I mean, obviously. You're we're speculating with the conversation has that ship said and kind of your thoughts on a card manufacture getting into the grading space.

I don't think it's as big a conflict as you think it is. But I will say this, I don't think. I don't think, Uh, Fanatics is in a big hurry to buy a grading company for the sake of buying a grading company. They've got their hands full with all the things they're doing, including the Fanatics fest and all this stuff.

They're they're doing a whole bunch of things. Uh, And they're and they can they can work with any of the grading companies whatever they want to do. So they're in a situation where and John you, I don't know that you've said this, but it's not like PSA got SGC without Fanatics. I mean, it's not like they scooped them.

You know, if Fanatics had wanted to buy SGC, they could have. I think I heard a rumor. Listen, I heard a room again, it's all who knows, only only the people behind closed doors. I heard a rumor that Fanatics made an offer for SGC and was review.

Okay, well, let me I'm just saying that if Fanatics wants to buy your company in this industry this this twenty twenty five. If they want to buy your company, they can buy your company. If your company's for sale. I think my old company BGS separately or Beckett Media or Beckett Collectibles.

I think it's not for sale right now because they're they're working their growth story. But if they would be for sale, Fanatics could buy them. They have enough money to buy. They have an enough money to overpay.

So if Fanatics had wanted to buy SGC bad enough, they would have. And so either the value they were they weren't willing to overpay at that point, and maybe they thought, well, I'll increase my my uh my stake in CGC, or I'll wait for BGS to get more reasonable and being willing to be acquired, uh, which I'm not sure they are willing to be acquired right now in SGC, you know they So they wound up being with p s A and and I don't know if they got their price. Maybe they did, but I wouldn't be betting against If Fanatics wants a company and somebody else wants a company, Fanatics has the ability to the highest bidder if they if they want and they didn't want to be John that's all I'm saying. Yeah, so you think they did maybe just some feelers and testing them.

How many feelers they've put the fanatics as well known they they've they've solicited every company in the industry of a wold kind of a would you take every show promoter, every grade or every any brand that Michael Rubin understands brands value brands and he and he and he won't mothball the brand brands. So so I think they put out feelers to all these people. And if if people, if if you're too hungry and say, oh, yeah, we'd really like to be, well, then they're gonna if they're gonna make you a low offer, and you might take it. But I don't think SGC was willing to take a low offer, and and and BGS certainly wasn't either, and the others I'm aware of that they've made offers to they were they were they were they were feelers.

No, it makes sense, it makes sense, and it makes sense on their w. C C pw c C. Do you think that went for a premium price. No, that went for the lowest price it would have gone for in its history.

P w C was at the at the lowest of the low when fanatics swooped in and valla. You have fanatics collectibles or whatever or whatever they're doing it. So PWCC, you know that's they got that on the cheap because it had it had problems, but it had it had the the structure that was there that they've been able to tap in the savage. I wouldn't bet against them.

Yeah, no, I wouldn't either. I agree. Which when you have that much power and inflacy, why not test the market and see what things are may or may not be available? Right, It doesn't really cost much, if anything to do that. It's time for a quick break, but will be right spying.

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Sports Cognation has reasons. You know, you sell cards. I sell cards. You know, the COVID crescendo, it was very easy to do, and a lot of people came in and did that.

A lot of new people were obviously on the other side of that, well, on the other side of that. Now. Has has that changed how you sell cards at all? Or not really? Or maybe a better way to ask the question, is it harder to sell now because everything's not the Midas touch per se. In my lane, it's not.

I mean, basically, I'm in a situation where I'm realizing that the big fear before COVID was if cards went down significantly, there'd be such a huge loss of confidence that the hobby would not recover. And we found exactly that that the market got overheated through COVID. The market went way up. It dropped substantially over whatever that was twenty twenty two or twenty twenty one, you know, from the peak.

It dropped substantially. And the Chicken Little where this guy did not fall, and so things are as strong, and if you look at the recent auction results, we're still setting record prices. So I'm trickled down. I'm not playing in the six figure, five figure, maybe even four figure cards mostly.

I mean, I just so, I think the hobby's been strong throughout and consistently strong, you know, consistently strong. And because the hobby is not just the glamour you know, one hundred thousand dollars cards, but those hundred thousand dollars cards, there were million dollar cards that now go for less than five hundred thousand. And if you would have said that ten years ago, they said the hobby could never recover from that. If if somebody lost half their value in a for example, if there would ever be a Wagner card that went down in value, you know, from one the same copy, that people would think, oh that's that's we got to get out, you know, run for the hills.

I don't think so. I don't think things get overheated in this hobby, and that proved it. When it gets overheated, then people go to other things, so then there's less demand, the price falls, then the price gets to a more reasonable level, and then people say, hey, that's looking like a good deal. Now it you should sell for this.

Now it's only this, I think I'll go for it. So but it doesn't affect me. I'm I'm I've chosen my lane, John, because I don't want to wake up or have a sleepless night. I sleep great, enjoy, I enjoy.

I'm not. I'm buying interesting cards that are interesting to me without worrying about the value. Yeah, that's what it should be about right there. Well, it's my lane.

It's some people really want brag worthy Uh, you know flexing cards, and I already have a bunch of those. You're an early flexer, is what you just said? Was it early flexer? I'm kidding. I'm kidding with you. All right.

We're coming down the home stretch here. We're in double digits away and approaching fast right the national uh in Chicago, back in Chicago for this year and the next two under the new leadership group. You've never missed one of these things, you know? Do you like that it's in Chicago three years? In the rowd? Like I like. I like to see it move around me personally, But I haven't been to as many as you have.

So your your thoughts on just being in the same venue in Chicago is arguably the best one. So I guess if you're going to have it in the same venue, Chicago's not a bad place central you know, central region of the United States. Kind of your thoughts on the location. Over the years, I have been asked many times to be on the National Committee, you know, the board of Trustees, whatever it is, and I've declined I don't really want to do that.

I don't think why let me start out what. It's just because it's a political position. It's I would I have opinions, but this the National is is of the people, by the people, for the people, and really mainly dealers. The dealers vote on where it's going to be.

And so I don't lose a lot of sleep about things I can't control. And in Chicago, again, if Chicago was a terrible thing and it was railroaded into Chicago, that's different than Chicago really was. That the argument is why not have Chicago every year? I don't want that. But if in doubt, unless something is has the potential to be better than Chicago, and I'm frankly not sure Detroit or Atlanta are going to be better than Chicago, but they might be really good, and we've got to try something beside Chicago in whatever that is, twenty twenty nine, twenty twenty eight, whatever the year is, got to go somewhere else.

But it might be if there's a drop off from three years through Chicago and then we go to Atlanta, which I think is the front runner, and it's a ten percent drop off, we're going to be back at Chicago for the rest of our lives. John, If Atlanta isn't a really exciting, huge show, that justifies leaving Chicago. So we'll say. So you're saying if it is Atlanta in four years and the show doesn't live up in the in the same zip code as Chicago's performance, that that might seal the deal where it just becomes Chicago every year.

No, I'm not saying that, because the way it is structured is the vote for the twenty twenty nine or the next one will be before the Atlanta show has occurred. Yeah, and so we won't know that, And so when you're going to the next one, it's probably gonna be Chicago versus Detroit or Atlanta, which everyone didn't win. And maybe maybe there's some other Anaheim, you know, or or. What about you? I mean, let's put I'll put you in you know.

What about Dallas? It's a obviously it's a hobby hotbed. There's a lot of company, Like why not Dallas. It's been in Anaheim. I mean it's been in Arlington, you know, which is a suburb of Yeah.

I don't think Kyle wants that or should want that. It's not it doesn't help him. Uh, He's already got the prominence, he's already got the relationships. It's it's I don't, you know, he's already doing some regional things.

I don't. I don't think it's in his best interest to to. It's so disruptive, John, I mean we I was part of a bid committee, uh once or twice, and there's so many moving parts and so many people you have to please. It's a lot can go wrong.

You've got a lot, you know, like I said, a lot of people to please, important people to please. And so I don't I don't think it's going to go back to Dallas. It's I mean, Kyle has is just doing great. He's just hitting Grand slams every two months and doing pop up shows whenever he feels like he's in strong control of this market, and he's doing shows in Chicago and other places, so he's got his hands full.

I just I don't know that it's going to go to Philly or Baltimore or something. It's just, again, it's not my call. I guess you know, I don't usually vote. I can vote because I have I have a from so many years of being you know, having tables dealer priority, I would get a vote.

But again, I just I'm pretty retired. I think the dealers that vote, they're the ones that are there. They show up, they listen to presentations, they've already made up their mind in most cases based on what's best for them, and that's just the way the system is set up. You think we've seen the last National at Atlantic City in Cleveland.

I think it's the last one in Cleveland for sure. I put money on that because they're shutting down the i X Center. But Atlantic City they already had not an illegal inducement, but a significant inducement last time, and it and it didn't really work. I mean, you can't put a price on safety.

Atlantic City is just not I think it's the facility was great and the proximity was great, but getting two blocks away or three blocks away was not a no brainer, you know, after dark, speaking of shows, I wanted to asking is it's a question I've never asked you before. You've wore obviously a lot of hats in the hobby dealer, you own an LCS. Obviously he started back at the company. Were you ever a show promoter or and if you weren't, were you all almost? Yeah? But yes and yes, no, I've promoted shows.

I've been a show whatever organizer. You know. Gerviz and I did the first show in Dallas. We did a couple but it was more his thing than mine.

But you know that, you know that was fine. And then I was part of the bid in eighty six. Maybe were we lost? And I'm glad we lost. I'm glad we lost.

I think we were not. You know, when I look at our committee and how we laid it out, we had a great sound plan, but we were not. We didn't emphasize marketing as much. We emphasized the organizational, the structure, the the how well run it would be and uh, and we didn't the votes.

We came in second, and I'm glad we did. It would have been disruptive to all of our lives of us on the on the committee, and we weren't full time promoters. That's it requires a full time promoter. Now.

Yeah, it did then, and I was I got pulled into it because I was close friends with the guys who were doing it then and it just wasn't you know. And it was simpler in those days, but still complicated. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Well, doctor Jim, as always, this is a blast.

It's been been fun. Again. I appreciate you coming on and sharing those insights real quick give out uh you know, your your podcast, sports card insights, but anything else you want, that's it. They want to see me, they can either.

I mean I get some mail occasionally, I get some email occasionally, I get some you know, YouTube and podcasts bounce backs. But I don't do social media. I'm I'm pretty visible at the shows. I go to go to all the Dallas shows and the Nationale and people can find me.

And if they can't find me, they can find one of my wingmen, which you case have been as well. So I mean, I don't try to be scarce, but I don't try to knocking. Yeah, so I just it's it's. Fun to to have some social stuff in the evening it's more pure social and the morning I hit the tables real hard.

After that we wonder a little bit. But and then the evenings are for some nice dinners that you know, get away from the cards. Yeah, I agree. I'm waving that same formula.

And it's been it's almost every year now for forty whatever, it's been forty forty four, forty five nationals. This'll be what forty five I think, I. Think because it's forty six, it would have been the forty sixth, but. Then the COVID cancelation.

Yeah, well, listen, it's not far away now. We're every day we're one day closer to it. I look forward forward to it for many of the reasons you just said, and another one I get to see you in person. And likewise, so doctor Jim as always thank you and we'll see you soon.

Thanks John. Always awesome having doctor Jim on and like I said, glad to call him a friend. Look forward to seeing him in person whenever we get the chance, which will be here in a couple of weeks, and kind of know where to find him. When we get to the national but I think at this point, but I think the secret's out as well, So we're gonna hear from Our Hobby is the People an Announcer of the Week and wrap up this week's episode.

Time for our Hobby is the People Announcer of the Week. This is David Kepple. Remember the Hobby is the People. If you'd like to be the Hobby is the People Announcer of the Week, do or m P three file and send it to Sportscard Nation PC at gmail dot com.

Solo farewell. I'll be Idum idum to you and your and your.