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Sports Card Nation. What is up everybody? Welcome to episode
354 of Sports Card Nation podcast. Glad to be back. Speaking of back, part two
of our great conversation with Brett McGrath of Stacking Slabs. We're going to talk about uh various things, but uh
you know, one of the things about you know, making money from content creation. Some people look at it as a
negative connotation type thing. Uh we both do it. Uh, so I figured who better
to to bat that around with than someone uh in the same sort of uh end uh as as
me with that. So that's not the only thing we're going to talk about, but uh that will be the start of our uh part
two of our conversation. So uh hope everyone is doing well. Uh it's been a
tough week uh if you live in the United States uh with just some crazy stuff. I
won't go into details, but uh you know uh uh please keep everybody uh in mind
and uh you know hopefully things uh get better and uh uh we can kind of all get
be on the same page or as close to that um as possible. So I tend to root for
people, not against people, but uh some people don't do that and um it's
unfortunate but uh that's the world we live in. Okay. Uh want to thank uh our
great sponsors as always uh on this show that make it possible. Iron Sports Card
uh Rob Valente does a great job with the bulk submission grading services he
provides. Sports Collectors Digest. I'm privileged to uh write for them uh each
month. Hobby Hotline, which has now moved to the four collectors channel. Uh
hopefully you check that out uh there. and Upper Deck. Uh not uh last but not
least, uh Upper Deck uh some of the best designs in the card game. So, with that
being said, uh we're back with Brett McGrath. All right, now for the conclusion of our conversation with
Brett McGrath of Stacking Slayers. I'm going to start out here, like I mentioned in the intro, talking about
monetizing content, right? something he does and I do and I know we've both
taken criticism for that and I you know I'm going to explain kind of my point of view and I definitely wanted to get his
point of view. So that's where the conversation starts out and it goes from there but uh we talk about uh a few
other things as well. Enjoy. I know I'm I I don't I don't want to I'm
going to assume you get some of this. I know I do and I've shared this u some people are critical of that, right? They
say, "Oh, you're, you know, you're just doing content for money or you don't even like or use that product." And and
for me, I can only speak for myself here, and I want to get your your uh take on this. You know, any sponsor I've
had, uh, you know, SGC is a sponsor of the show. I use SGC before they were a sponsor of the show, and I continue to
use them, and I hope I get I hope there's they, you know, I still get to continue. There's some stuff going on
there. But any uh what I'm getting as any spots I had on the show, I either use them or would recommend anyone else
to use them. I'm not shilling. Uh but you know, anytime you make money, even even as a dealer, like I set up at shows
as a dealer and people say, "Oh, you're not a a real collector uh because you sell cards." And I'm like, "What is the
def I don't even know what the definition of true collector is." I got a You see it on camera. These are all
cards that don't go to the show with me. They're in my PC. So, I don't even know what that means. But there's I guess
where I'm I'm being long-winded here, but there's a connotation to if you make money, whether that's through
sponsorships or selling cards, that it's sort of a a bad thing or you're not
pure, you're not true or you're not a great person. And I don't know why that is. Uh so again, two like do you ever
get that or you hear that and like your your stance and take on that? Yeah, I
think that's it's a it's a there's a couple couple ways to dive into this. I think number one, when I first set out
on my own, I was something that I was I was concerned about, but I got some feedback from some pretty great people
and great sources and be like, you've you spent all this time giving away your time and content for free that any
everybody should want to support you. And that has been true. And I've always found like the the the real ones, the
people who, you know, I want to connect with and communicate have always been just such good advocates and understand
it. What I've learned is that people are going to be negative just to
be negative. And uh that negativity can like fester and it can get into your
mental state. And I don't know like the more I've grown and evolved, I've just tried to do whatever I can to uh ignore
that. And also like with with like the true collector narrative and you know
people asking questions like why are you selling this card at this show or why are you posting this online? Didn't you
just buy it? Like I I I've like said this on some of my content recently. Like really think like we should like
the starting point is like you got to focus on focus on yourself. Like you got to focus on yourself and we're here in a
community and we're here to help one another. But like whenever I get hear that feedback, I'm always just like
wondering like why aren't you focusing on yourself? Like you're worrying too much about what other people are doing.
And like the hobby to me is always about buying, selling, and trading. And you have to sell cards in order to get other
cards. And it's just part of it. So I think there's a I think the community is great. I appreciate all the diversity of
opinions. I learn so much. I'm curious. But I also think like there's a lot of very limited mindsets when it comes to
um you know your approach and just because your approach is different than someone else someone feels the need to
criticize it which is unfortunate. Um I guess just to like wrap it up like if
you're not if if you're if someone sees you and wants to criticize you it's like they feel threatened because the way
you're approaching content or cards is different than the way they are. And I think that's the best part about the
hobby is everyone does it different and every we've got entrepreneurs who are building businesses and we've got people
building media companies and it's like my mindset is always unless the individual is doing something nefarious
uh there's fraud like support everyone like and it's taken me John it's taken me to be off on my own to be a
cheerleader for everybody but I think like my mindset is the more the hobby grows the more it expands whether it's
stuff that I use, I don't use or whatever, like the better position it is for me as a small business owner in this
hobby. And so it's it's not like manufactured. It's very genuine, but I think for me it's been a a maturity
thing. It's like, yeah, just because this company does this and I don't buy into that doesn't mean I should think
negatively of them. They're just trying to carve out a niche that supports a different type of audience in the in the
hobby. And so I think about that a lot. Um, and I just think it's like a little kumbaya, but like support people. Like
we're we're all here. We're all like there's common ground. We're all collecting cards. Like it's be I find
it's better to support people than to criticize. But I'm I'm overly optimistic
at times, maybe to a fault. Yeah, well said. I think a lot of that too, Brett, you know, comes from a
negative space. Someone's just unhappy and whatever. It might be personal life, job life, or whatever. And it's just
easier to maybe take a shot at someone else or a pot shot at at someone else.
So, I kind of look at it like that. I never try to take it uh too personal. It's not going to necessarily affect
what I do. I'm just going to keep going. I'm not going to get, you know, you're not going to win that debate with that person anyway. It's just going to be a
vicious circle that goes on and on and probably just gets worse as it as it continues. So, I always love feedback. I
know you're like that, too. I asked for it. Many many of the changes with this proh program have come from other people
saying, "Hey, think about this John or I don't like this. I love that." Um, that sort of thing. Um, but I don't, you
know, like you said, to hobby your way, to each their own. Like you said, if you're doing it above board, you're not
ripping anyone off or doing any illegal. That's what it's about. that the hobby, you know, as the hobby gets bigger and
grows, we're in it, right? We're part of that, you know, the old kind of dumb cliche, right? The rising tide raises
all all ships, right? Well, we're the ships uh in the hobby tide, whether we feel that way or not. That's that's just
the way it is. And so, like you said, I think uh that's how I uh look at it.
Just, you know, people are going to say uh what whatever that they're going to say. And um you know I should be if they
want an explanation I can give them one but other than that I'm just not going to have like an hour debate about it
with with somebody. No one's going to be better off for it. Right. And you're not g they've already sort of made up their
mind. Yeah. Uh anyway. And you know it's like they say opinions aren't really wrong. Facts
can be an opinion. Someone's going to have that opinion. They're not necessarily wrong. Um but that's their
opinion and it may differ from mine or yours or both. So, it is what it is,
right? We got to just uh do what we think's uh best uh you know for for like you said for our listeners uh and for
for ourselves as well. Uh being full-time is that you know I you know
you have younger kids. I have a 25 year old. He's not even a kid. He's a a young adult. He's still at home. We'll see.
We're working on that. But uh that's a show for another day. But uh you know
with younger kids obviously he was a younger kid. I always joke that like I wouldn't be able to if you know and I
only have one one son but um you know if I did if I if this podcast existed when
he was a kid the podcast probably wouldn't existed because I was coaching it was just uh very busy. I I love that
time period. Part of me misses that time period. Um, but you know, I think going
full-time, would you say that's made that work life balance easier to navigate because now it's you don't have
a job and then like you said when it was podcasting with content creation and a
job it in a sense two jobs. Yeah. So, uh, my daughter I have a one and a half uh year old daughter. I have
a three and a half year old daughter and my wife and I are expecting our third daughter at the end of the year and
congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. So, it's a full house uh girl dad. Uh big time. You're out. You're outnumbered.
Big time. Big big time. We're We're uh we're outnumber I'm outnumbered here at Stacking Slabs HQ. But yeah, it's been I
don't know. Something about my kids being young and being around them like doing this from home. It's certainly
helpful. Um I think you know picking and dropping off at school. Also like the
balance side. I kind of have a rule. There's exceptions to the rule, but the first four years of stacking slabs, most
of the work I was doing it was in the evening. So, I was lightning lighting the candle on both ends, work and then
evening conversations. And like I really try to limit that like once I go pick up
my kids, I try to be done until they go to bed. And you know, in the evenings, I'm not recording content.
Even listen, I'm going to stick up for you here too. Not to cut you up, but like even with scheduling this, right,
we we work with those times and I get it. That's why we have those comments and I appreciate that as a content
creator and a dad even though my kids's older now. But I get it. I get it. So go ahead.
Yeah. No, it is it's it's fun. Like my wife, she's off on Wednesdays. We're
recording this on a Wednesday. She when we started to record, she went to pick up the kids. You know, maybe by the time
this is over, they'll you'll hear them in the background. But I don't know. It's it's I really enjoy being in hobby
mode, card mode, and then just going on the other side and then turning into dad. Uh being able to toggle that back
and forth is uh a lot of fun and and it's I feel very fortunate for the position I'm in right now.
Yeah, no doubt. And from one dad to another, cherished, you know, when they're young, you know, I don't you
don't need me to tell you this, but cherish those moments. You blink and they're teenagers. You blink, they're
graduating high school, college, and then uh in my case, they're still living
at home like eating everything in the fridge. But hey, free free meals. Free meals.
But no, all joking aside, like you know, Cherish, it it goes quick and and time flies. We've been talking uh before uh
recorded. You are listening to the Sports Card Nation podcast.
We'll be right back after this break. Iron Sports Cards is your number one source for all your PSA and other
grading submissions. Their elite status improves turnaround times. Heck, they even provide the card savers. Their chat
rooms provide updates on all your submissions. They also offer wax options and single cards to cover all the bases.
Check them out on Facebook at Iron Sportscards Group or on the web at ironportscards.com
or even give them a call at 1877 PSA. Rob's got you covered.
We are back. Something happened uh in in your neck of
the woods uh recently. Big hobby news, right? Uh doesn't matter where the
person resides, right? I don't like to like give props to like not good people.
Uh but it's its name's been out there. Brett Lemieux uh may be uh a ring leader
of the biggest hobby forgery scam. I mean, it's kind of a new story. The dust
hasn't even officially settled. Um he did a I you know, you called it, I
think, a manifesto, kind of a a a goodbye letter, but not a lot of remorse
or remiss uh in there. uh basically spilled the beans on everyone involved
in him and what he was doing and then proceeded to uh commit suicide and not
face the music. 45 years old. So, uh around your age and uh had had young
kids as well and and a wife from what I uh can gather. And um you know, this is
going to uh he may not be here, but uh this story continues and uh is going to
be and even if you don't collect autographs, Brett, uh this is still affects the hobby, right? It's a bad
look for the hobby. You know, people who do collect autographs will probably start looking at their stuff and
wondering like if I didn't get this in person, am I looking at a a genuine a
real McCoy? Uh, and people who bought stuff maybe for other people as gifts or
like did I did I give something and it's not even real even though it was they didn't know that. But there's just a lot
of tentacles. Plus, it's just illegal and it's fraud and it's grant, you know, it's grant them all those those blocks
and it just, you know, it's going to make all the major news uh stories and and feeds whether it's on your phone
online or even on on TV. It's just a bad look for the hobby even though 90% 95%
of people are doing it above board in the right way. Just some of your thoughts. I know it hits close to home.
uh you know, almost in your backyard. Just some of your thoughts uh on this. Yeah, it's you know, when news like this
pops up, it's incredible to see how quickly it spreads in the hobby. And most of the time I'm doing what we're
doing now and not as plugged in when breaking news happens. And so I just check my DMs and uh a friend of mine
sent me the like four screenshots in the uh Facebook group and I was like,
"What's this?" this and I started reading it and then just what caught my attention was the fact that it happened. It was took place in Westfield, Indiana,
which is where the Colts training camp is. It's about 20 25 minutes north of
me. And you know, just reading through it and it was it caught me off guard just being like this is so incriminating
what's going to happen. And then the next shoe dropped and you found out that uh he had committed suicide. And you
start thinking about this and just the impact and the ripple effect. And my mindset and mentality is obviously
horrible situation impacts everybody. I think one of the observations I made is
just how quickly the members of this community go to talk about what
happened. Like it was like less it was like hours from the story really breaking and it was like there were
reels up. everyone had opinions and stuff and I I'm like starting to watch this and it had taken over the hobby and
I'm like what's what's like are people just getting up and talking about this and they actually have more information
that they want to share or are they just trying to get attention? So that was like a battle I had in my mind. I was like I tried to like stay away because I
was like I don't know what to believe and so I was just waiting for like news outlets to start covering it which they
did. Um and I was reading those articles and uh yeah it's it's it's unfortunate.
It seems like we are cool for a while and then you know a year or two years passes and some incident happens. Um and
I don't think at this point we know the exact magnitude. Obviously like he alluded to some numbers and we'll see
like when the dust settles what's true and what's not true. Um but yeah
unfortunate situation and I think my biggest takeaway is you got to be vigilant. like there is always going to
be someone out there in this space that's unregulated trying to take advantage of somebody else and uh it's
simple and it's basic feedback but like I think our community does a really good job of this especially when there's like
theft at like hobby shops if if if something happens and someone like talks
about it like share like share the information especially if it's like true information it can help someone out um
and I just think uh yeah I I I I think just be vigilant because you never know.
And so, yeah, very unfortunate situation. I'm still waiting for the fallout on kind of what else is going to
come out on this. Yeah. And keep in mind, too, you know this, you've done this long enough. I mean, this isn't going to be just a
couple month thing. This is going to be uh years uh that stuff is going to uh
come out and uh you know, be related to it and attached to it. I think with the,
you know, we're recording this uh before the national, we're we're a week away. I think, you know, there's, you know, this
too, there's people who set up at the national who that's all they that's all they they deal with is autograph
memorabilia. They don't do cards. And they may be 100% legit, great, wholesome
people. And because of the timing of this, uh, when the story, and you can't control that, but because of the timing
of this, they're going to have to answer a lot of questions. uh even though that you say well they should be able to like
hey where did it how did you get this but even more so now and they're going to sort of be looked at maybe more
suspiciously than they should even be because of someone else's actions. So I
think of that those folks and and like how it's sort of unfair uh to that group
who are doing it the right way and legitimately and but because of what
it's like you know breaking uh you get a bad breaker and we look at the every breaker as as the same cookie cutter and
we both know that's not how it actually is. But some people sort of you throw
the baby out with the bathwater as they say, right? It's just everything's uh bad. And so that I think about that. I
think about the people who already made purchases that got duped and um you know
their hard-earned money as well. So hopefully, you know, I you know, Fanatics is saying that he inflated some
of the numbers he was throwing around. Uh hopefully that's the case so the damage is minimized. Uh but it's still
it's still bad. It's still a big story and we're going to it's going to probably go on for for who knows uh how
long. So, I don't know what, you know, I don't want to beat it a dead horse. It's it's making the rounds. I'm sure you uh
like you I don't I didn't even post anything about it. I just will talk about it if if I'm talking uh with
someone. Uh we're both football guys. Let's segue in. I don't know if this segueing into something better or or
not. You're you're a Colts fan. I'm a Steeler fan. We both got quarterback uh
problems as fans know those teams. We have a over thehill uh aged veteran and
and Aaron Rogers who waited to the last minute to decide he was going to play. Uh you have a younger guy in Anthony
Richardson, you know, accuracy issues, uh some health issues the way he plays.
You signed uh not I say you, but the Colts signed uh Daniel Jones. Uh, I
think they saw that two 2022 season. They got him cheap in their defense.
They're not paying them a boatload of money. It's not a bad signing when you look at the big picture and what he's
actually costing. Uh, you know, you're a season ticket holder. Just I'm not going to talk about the Steelers. That's a
that's a whole that's a whole show in itself. But, uh, with you being on, I know we always talk some football. Uh,
kind of your thoughts on on what's going on, uh, you know, with your Colts. Yeah. So, as we're recording, this
actually was the first day of training camp, so it's very timely. Um, and it's been funny, John, I am I I follow the
team and everything happening year round. Um, I feel very less connected
because I'm coming off of as a Pacers fan, the finals run and just the magical season that didn't quite end the way we
wanted to, but was just great. And so, a lot of my energy was there and now I'm like shifting that focus to football.
And you know, I will say this, like post luck era, I have probably set
unrealistic expectations for myself as a fan, and I'm not doing that this year. I'm going in with the lowest
expectations possible and hoping that it changes. Um, I think just, you know, the
surrounding team, there is a ton of talent on both sides of the ball. Uh,
like, you know, you've got like from a offensive perspective, you've got Michael Pitman Jr., You've got uh Josh
DS who's got the third most catches in the first two seasons of in Colts
history. You've got Alec Pierce who led the league in yards per catch last year.
Um you got Jonathan Taylor who's been one of the most efficient running backs. I love it. I'm a huge I mean
he's my favorite player. Yeah, I'm a Steelers guy, but like I I follow him. I play fantasy football too,
but I do love uh I don't think he gets enough credit for how good he doesn't he
is but he doesn't. So you gota surround the surrounding pieces. You got talent defensively, but the question mark,
right, is the quarterback and that you if you don't have a quarterback, you're not going very far. And I think I'm
interested to see uh if Anthony Richardson could rise to the occasion with this quarterback battle. I I think
Daniel Jones especially because of how bad last year went. I do think like
obviously his stock is very very low, but I think there are some nice things that he can do. So I think it all comes
down to the progress of Richardson and what happens and I think the Colts are viewed him they're viewing him as a
long-term project and um the accuracy issues are very true. It's the most frustrating thing about his game. But
then he has moments like last year where he has a fourth quarter drive uh that
was lights out game-winning touchdown against the Jets and he had another one against the Patriots. So, like he has
had these moments and you're just as Colts fans, you're just hoping like, okay, he can piece it all together
because I've I John, I was in Lucas Oil for the first game of last season
against the Texans and that Richardson throw everyone seen where he throws it off his back foot and I've seen Manning
play every year. I've seen Luck play his whole career every year and I have never seen anybody make a pass like that. So,
the talent is there, but you know, it takes more than just talent to be a successful quarterback. So, we'll see.
My expectations are low. I'm going to keep it that way, and I hope that they exceed him uh as we go into this year.
Yeah, it'll be interesting. Do you think uh real quick, I mean, do you think this is like the make or break year? Like, if
he struggles again, you think they move on from him or do you think he you think there's more time there? I don't know
all the contract. I think he's got I think he's got before they have to pay him, he's got another year. So there
there'll be some time and I think that's why they're they're being they're trying to be delicate with the situation and
why they're trying to bring in Jones and bring in some competition. But certainly a very very important year like anybody
who's a fan of the Colts or a fan of Richardson wants to see some progress. And it's crazy. The progress really is
the short passes, the accuracy. It's the easy stuff that you think most the guys can do is the stuff that he really needs
to focus on. Um, but I I I think like I know he's got some slack, but I think
genuinely he is a good kid and I think he came into the league really early and I think he's always had this freakish
ability. Um, and it just takes some time and learning and we'll see if he can absorb it all. I believe Shane Stiken's
a really good coach for him. Uh, I think it's a good fit. Uh, I'm not saying he's going to go be a Pro Bowler or AllP Pro
or we're going to the Super Bowl, but I think he's got uh I think he's got enough intangibles to take that next
step. Will it happen? We'll see. Yeah. And it's funny as a, you know, I'm a Steeler fan, but I'm a football fan,
right? I I keep tabs on all these storylines. So, I'm going to be interested uh maybe not as much as you,
but kind of in in that mix, right? And I'll be interested to watch your Steelers and see what Aaron Rogers can
do. I got to they they they they resigned Watt. They got uh Rogers in
there. They're going they're whether you like it or not, they are going all in on this season. So, we'll see what
happened. Yeah, they they are. They are. Uh like you, I'm keeping the expectations tempered
just because we haven't won a playoff game in nine years, Brett. Like, and and then when we've made it, we get run out
of the gym. We're not even competitive. So, like Tomlin, and I like them. I don't love them. uh you know and I I
know well if he was fired he'd rehired him in and that's probably all true but you you know it's like what have you
done lately? I think he's still living off that Arizona Cardinals uh Super Bowl
win and that just seems like I was a young guy then let's just put it that way and uh that was a long time ago. So
so it'll be interesting to see they are spending some money you know and and so
we can't I can't fault them there. have done some unsteeler like things with trades and things like that. So, I'm
kind of going in open-minded, but I'm not ex like I'm not expecting, you know, people, you know, there's Steeler fans
that walk around like we're winning the Super Bowl this year. I'm not one of those uh guys. I'm I've seen this movie
uh too many times. Yes. Uh before. Would it be nice? Of of course, as a fan, but
I'm not expecting that. uh and uh that way I'm not uh that disappointed uh when
it doesn't happen. But uh always fun to have you on uh Brett. I always give uh
the guest the last word. Share uh your social media where people can catch Stacking Slabs and and other things uh
that you're doing. Yep. Stacking Slabs uh across all social channels. Spend a lot of time on
Instagram. Uh you can go to Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to your podcast. just look up stacking slabs,
hit follow, and you'll get access to kind of the new content, new shows that are coming out uh publishing right now
as we record this uh every day but Sunday. So, there's something new coming out and it's different flavors for
different types of collectors with uh starting new shows, new hosts are on there. So, uh yeah, come check it out
and shoot me a message. Would love to hear from you. Yeah, awesome stuff. I promise it won't be two years uh to have you back. We
might have to just do a yearly show where uh you know we talk about how our football teams did or or didn't do.
We'll have to bring we'll have to bring some Kleenexes, John. Yeah. Well, we'll take turns. One year
you bring them and next year I will. Well, Brett, always a pleasure, man. Thank you.
Yeah, I love what you do, John. Always appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me back on. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you.
Always great having Brett on the show. It's been a while, but uh glad I'm back and we'll I'm on again. Long as he'll
come on, uh and uh probably less time between visits, uh if you will, but uh
uh thank you to Brett and uh making some time for us. So, uh we're going to hear from our hobby is the people announcer
of the week and then wrap up this week's episode.
Time for our Hobby is the people announcer of the week.
Sup everyone, it's Brody the Kid. Always remember, the hobby is the people. Peace
out. If you'd like to be the Hobby is the people announcer of the week, do a
WAV or MP3 file and send it to sportscardationpc@gmail.com.
