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All right, welcome to the first episode of the Card Fellas.
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This will be a show myself and Tony d will
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be hosting with various topics, no set schedule, just kind
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of whenever we brainstorm and something comes up that we
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want to bat around, like today, And speaking of today,
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today's topic is why the vintage football market doesn't measure
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up and compare to the vintage baseball market and it's not.
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Really even that close.
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And I know Tony's got some charts and numbers and data,
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and we're going.
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To bat around why we think this is the case.
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And I'm sure others Tony have thought about this too,
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like why is that there's some great vintage football cards
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as we both as we both know.
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So there's the intro. Again.
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We'll do this from time to time. This is episode one.
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I'll acquiesce to you now.
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Hey, John, thanks for having me on the show.
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It's a pleasure and an honor to do a podcast
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with you.
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And I don't know if I should call you Paison.
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Or match.
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Half Italian, you know.
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And but this is fun though, so I think it's
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a you know, you and I collect cards of various
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leagues and sports.
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I love football, cards, basketball cards.
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You know baseball obviously, but when it comes to football
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and basketball, especially football.
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I've been dabbling into the.
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Modern card market because I try to collect, not try,
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I actually did it. Up to the current date. I
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have one Eagles card, one Eagles card of a quarterback
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who started at least one game for the team going
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back to nineteen forty eight, so I have Bobson.
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All the way to Hurtz.
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And when I was doing this exercise, it made me
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not only learn about modern cards like the nineties inserts,
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the two thousands inserts, even some of the twenty ten inserts,
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but I also delve back into vintage cards. And I
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was looking at some of these prices, and look, let's
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be honest, outside of Norm van Brocklin, there's not too
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many Eagles old quarterbacks you know, from the fifties and
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sixties that are elite.
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But it got me looking at vintage football cards from
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the thirties.
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There weren't there really sets for the forties until you
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get into like forty eight bowmen and leaf and all that.
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But I started noticing the gap between vintage baseball and
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vintage football in terms of not only the population report,
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but more importantly the prices some of these elite football
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players are going for or compared to the elite baseball players.
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Then I remembered a podcast done by Brett and Pat
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Nicholson on Instagram. They have a show called The Football
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Podcast and then got into this topic. And I asked
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the question because they had a whole show devoted to
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this vintage football versus modern football and why there's such
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a price gap, and then they got even into some
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other sports too, So I thought, you know, maybe for
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our first show, you know, with your knowledge on both
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sides of the table, and with what I learned in
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the last couple of years since coming back into the
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hobby in twenty eighteen, it'll be a nice topic for
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us to get into. And to start with, I did
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a little bit of research about, you know, where is
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the football staying today compare the sports so you know,
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with our generation. The first thing I thought about was
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iconic moments. So I fought a few different articles on
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Sports Illustrate It and other the old Sport magazine and
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Sporting News and.
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A lot of the Times.
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At least every couple of years, they did the list
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of iconic moments in sports history, Like you know, Babe
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Bruce's called shot uh Muhammad Ali versus Sonny.
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Liston Jesse Owens.
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You know, football like the Immaculate Reception, the Catch with
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Joy Clark and Joe Montana, and Will Chamberlain scores a
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hundred points. But if you take all these lists, you'll
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notice one consistent trend, and that's there's always less historic
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football moments than there are for baseball. And that kind
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of like got me going down that rabbit hole. So
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then I started looking at other topics, saying, Okay, I
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get that baseball wins in terms of sports history, but
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what about gambling? Everybody? You know a lot of people gamble.
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I won't say everyone, but I say quite a few
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people make a wager, whether it's an office pool for
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a dollar or free, or they do fantasy football. So
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in I took twenty twenty four and I looked at
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the United States gambling revenue by sport and we didn't
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go with twenty twenty five because all those numbers.
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Aren't in yet.
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But in twenty twenty four, it estimated thirteen point seven
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billion dollars was generated in revenue by all the sports books,
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whether they have a physical presence or an online presence
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or both.
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And out of that thirteen point.
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Seven billion, or let's just round it up and say
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fourteen billion dollars, about thirty five percent of that was
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for football, NFL and college and that equivalates to four
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point six billion out of that fourteen billion dollars. And
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then I look at baseball. Okay, so let's you know,
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where is baseball steing in all this? Baseball only has
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about just under fifteen percent of all gambling revenue, so
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double over double the amount of people prefer betting on
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football then baseball. And then I'm thinking, okay, compare that
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to hell the card market is I'm like, no, in
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the card market, baseball, especially the vintage, still wins. Then
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I went down the rabbit hole even further and I
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took a look at the TV viewership for the top
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twenty sports leagues. So you know, we're kind of digging
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low into some of these leagues, like you know, which MLS,
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which I call minor league soccer. Joke there. But in
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twenty twenty four, the number one view sport in television
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was football excluding college, with seventeen point five million viewers,
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not just for one year, and it's by far the most.
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And then we get to baseball, and baseball only had
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one point five to two million viewers. So look at like,
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think about us people, our age, and our children. You
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had less than two million people watching baseball. This includes
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the World Series in twenty twenty four that the Dodgers
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won the World Series less than two million. But for
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NFL football you have eighteen million. Seventeen point five million.
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That's a stagnerant difference, and just for some comparison's sake,
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for other LEAs, you know, college football gets somewhere between
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like six to eight million. You have NASCAR, another popular sport,
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three to four million. So baseball can't even beat college football,
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which is not surprising. They can't beat NASCAR Cup Series.
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They're not.
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They barely beat the NBA. And the only reason they
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beat college basketball is because March.
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Man.
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This is only for one month, but if you took
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the top month of you baseball and compare that to
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March and the entire the tired duration of college basketball,
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college baseball wins outright.
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Any questions about these stats or any kind of common well.
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Listen, Tony, you know this. Let's take the Super Bowl, right,
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you know, it's the most watched sporting event probably outside
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of the World Cup, and gives that a run. And
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when you think about the Super Bowl, right, people who
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aren't even like died in the wold football fans watch
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football that day, right, whether it be for the commercials
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because people get together. Right, people may yeah, maybe they
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haven't even watched the regular season game, but they're watching
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the Super Bowl. No one's doing that for the World Series, right,
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You've got more people watching the World Series are really
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hardcore baseball fans because it could be seven games, it's
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at least gonna be four, so it's not gonna be
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resolved in one night like the Super Bowl. And you know,
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people not gonna like this, but football has replaced baseball.
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You know, we quote unquote as America's pastime. It's football
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now is in terms of fandom and viewership and rating goes.
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But like you said, Cards is a whole nother show,
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so to speak. And I, you know, I have there's
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reasons I believe that's the case. I don't know if
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you want to go through those or you know, how
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do you.
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Want to Yeah?
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Sure?
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Yeah, well so yeah, go ahead.
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So I was just say before we get into Cards,
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because I do have because you and I both picked
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some cards, and we tried to pick specific, historic and
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iconic maybe is a better term, football cards, and we
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tried to compare them to what their equivalent would be
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in baseball cards. So we got about five cards or
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so that we could talk about, and everyone's going to
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have their own opinion on what's the most iconic football
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cards and what's the most iconic baseball cards in terms
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of in terms of vintage. But I think we did
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a pretty good job picking out just to sample size.
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I'm also thinking about, you know, you know how cards
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were distributed in the nineteen thirties and the forties and
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the fifties and even the sixties to some extent, so
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we know baseball cards the way baseball was released you
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had tops and Bowman and later the Philadelphia Club issue
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football cards really just towards the end of the summer
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August when kids are starting to go back to school
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during those decades and still the same today. And then
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once you're in school, you're not thinking about anything else.
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I mean, you're doing school, you know, you gotta do
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homework and things like that, but you're watching football. So
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I asked my dad how football cards were back when
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he was growing up. He was born in nineteen forty six,
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nineteen forty five, excuse me, but he collected starting in
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nineteen fifty one for cards. He has memory still of
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opening up back to the fifty one. He stopped around
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nineteen fifty eight based on the card designs that I
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show him, and he said, Anthony because he calls me.
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That was growing up.
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We started buying baseball cars like all the kids in
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Philadelphia and his little Italian section growing up. We had
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We started buying in April. We were in school, but
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that's fine. After school we would go in and we
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would buy packs of cars, and he named various candy stores. Uh.
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Then we had April, May and June and buy So
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we were buying cars for three months and baseball cards,
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and by the time school was out, the last thing
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we had on our mind was was cards. We wanted
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to play sports outside our parents, playing trips down the shore,
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you know, whether we went with other families or we
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went ourselves. We were playing ball, half ball, baseball, everything
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because there were there were no with football back then.
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And then when we started to get into the mindset
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of going back to school, it was around in August.
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You know, when we made our last trip to the shore,
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we would start, you know, we'd come back into the
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city and we would start buying football cars. And he says,
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you know, back then people don't don't remember, but there
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were six preseason games still, so he would buy his
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football cards in eight in August. Then when schools came around,
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he would stop buying cars. And when you think about
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the pop reports for baseball for football, and the number
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of series and the cards size and the set sizes
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for baseball and football, that kind of supports that, you know,
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that way of thinking. But again, we're just talking about
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the nineteen fifties. We can't talk about the sixties in
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this aspect. Do you have any memories of like growing
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up and how the cards were you know released?
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Yeah, well in New York City where I'm from, right,
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and at the time, you know, I was born in
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seventy two, tony and so I bought my you know,
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the first pack of cards I opened, I was gonna
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say I bought, but my grandfather bought was the seventy
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nine Tops Baseball. Reggie Jackson at that time was the
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king of New York. And let's be as you know,
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to be honest with you, at that time, the Giants
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and Jets were not very good, so you know, football
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in New York City was no great shakes to the
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point where I became a.
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Steeler fan even growing up in New York City. And
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here's the other thing.
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You know, baseball cards have more nostalgia attached to them
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than football cards. They've been around longer. It's what most
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of us got introduced to first. Even people who are
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football only collectors today would probably tell you they initially
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got started being introduced to baseball cards. It's sort of
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a right of passage, right. I think the other thing,
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too Tony is like, and most people who were listening
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to this will agree, right. Football cards are heavily quarterback driven.
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One position where you can open a baseball pack or
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buy baseball cards, and it doesn't have to be just
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you know, first base or second base or pitcher. They're
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all sort of marketable to collecting. Where football it's it's
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not just quarterbacks. There's some all time legends at receiver
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and even defensively, but as far as collectibility, people aren't
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drawn to them.
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And I think what hurts football on.
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The vantage side is that baseball just had such a
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head start in the vintage market. There were obviously baseball
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cards were around a lot longer before before football.
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So it's like a race.
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You give anybody that sort of jump and early lead,
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it's really hard to make up that ground. Even when
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you do, that lead is so insurmountable, then you'll probably
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never you'll never pass it. Right, And I think the
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other thing, and I'll get your opinion on this. When
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we think of people collect, people collect also care about records.
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Right.
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That's kind of draws us to who we collect and
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that sort of things. Right, when we take a baseball
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record books, right, we think we can we know.
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Numbers, right.
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We knew Tank Aaron had to hit the seven hundred
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and fifteenth to be the all time home run king.
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We know the hitting streak is fifty six games, right.
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We know the last guy to hit four hundred.
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We even remember when people don't break records, right, we
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remember when George Brett made a run at hitting four
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hundred and more modern times, right, we know Johnny Vandermere
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through two no hitters in back to back games.
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Right.
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We know don Don Larson has the only perfect game
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in World Series history.
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We know all.
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These baseball stats that are important to the fabric of
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the game. And then if the flip side of that
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would with football history, obviously we know great players, but
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we don't who's Like if I ask most people what's
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the rushing leader in how many yards is it? You'll
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get a lot of wrong answers. Even even the ones
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00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:03.519
that maybe get the right player will get the wrong
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amount of yards. Right, So somebody says, Emmitt Smith, you
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know a lot of people are gonna say, well, they're
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00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:13.120
Payton or Barry Sanders, and it's not even though they're great,
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00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:15.600
and some and Jim Brown we get to argue Jim
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00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:18.480
Brown's the greatest running back ever, he doesn't lead.
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He doesn't lead in all time rushing yard.
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Here's the other thing with football, and this is again
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commonplace knowledge. Right, Football careers on average are just way shorter.
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It's a very physical context sport that could be literally
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over in one play. Someone gets his knee broken backwards,
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his career is over and it could be two or
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three years in if not less right, And so I
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think people are hesitant, especially this isn't more on the
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modern side to really go crazy. He's spending a bunch
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00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:53.600
of money on let's say one player, because in a
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00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:58.039
literally one play, that could all be up in smoke.
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00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:00.519
And so, you know, I think just to the the
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long history of baseball, the numbers, how we're introduced to
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it at a very young age.
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00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:07.599
You know, even people who.
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Don't collect today probably collected baseball cards when they were kids,
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and it's almost just the right of passage. Like and
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00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.759
so I think football is fighting that uphill battle to
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try to close that gap and not doing so well.
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And I think what also hurts him is you mentioned
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this like it's a quarterback driven sport, and I can
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make an argument that we have probably more household names
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and quarterback today than we did in the vantage error.
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I don't know if you agree with that, but your
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Brady's Mahomes, all your Super Bowl winners.
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Uh, Marino el Way.
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But then when you go back to the vantage error,
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00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:55.599
there's just it seems like you would counting other guys
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00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:59.960
Sammy law Yah. But I don't have the same effect
317
00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:03.559
on people as some of the modern Yeah.
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00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:09.160
I think that as time goes on, the history and
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00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:13.759
the how much of players talked about just it diminishes
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00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:16.960
every year. We see that in baseball too, But I
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think that that rapidly declined and how much someone's talked
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about they're fading into the sunset. I think it happens
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00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:27.680
quicker in football, Like you just said, uh, you know,
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00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:32.599
let's talk about like folks like Gibson, Bob Gibson or
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00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.480
Steve Carlton might even be a better example. Now, his
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00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:40.079
career started in sixty five and he ended in eighty seven.
327
00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:43.599
But at one point he was the best pitcher in baseball.
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00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:50.160
Yep, that's a twenty two year career, first.
329
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:54.079
To win for saw Youngs three hundred game winner. He
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00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:57.920
had his seventy two season which he won about forty
331
00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:01.920
to forty four percent of his team's games on this
332
00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:05.119
for that seventy two Phillies and probably should have won
333
00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:09.440
the MVP. Also was the all time strikeout king for
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00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:12.480
you know, a couple couple cups of coffee, you know,
335
00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:14.400
while riding was going for it.
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00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:17.079
And guess what nobody talks about him today.
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00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.279
And I and that, and when you compare him to
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00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.799
someone like Unitas or Auto Graham, I think I hear
339
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:27.920
it's probably not fair, but we may hear more about
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00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.960
Steve Carleton, who no one really talks about anymore than.
341
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:32.680
Say, a great like Auto Graham.
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00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:35.119
When I talked to my dad about Auto Graham, he
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said he was unbelievable. He said, you know, you got
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00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:43.279
Joe Montana, you got Tom Brady, you got Johnny Unitas.
345
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:45.279
But he says Otto Graham, I wish I could have
346
00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:47.680
watched him a little bit more because he was unbelievable.
347
00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:51.200
And it was at that time when Auto Graham played,
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00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:53.640
it wasn't a passing game. Beck, he wasn't even a
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00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:57.319
passing game when Joe Montana played. But guess what Bill
350
00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.640
Walsh made Joe Montana pass a little bit. But you know, still,
351
00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:06.559
another interesting aspect that you brought up was quarterback. It's
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00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:11.000
a quarterback, you know, having driven league, And I think
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00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.839
I would agree with that. I mean, I agree with
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00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:17.039
it more today than when I was.
355
00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:20.680
Growing up, because yeah, we all wanted the Marinos and
356
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:22.839
the Alway and the Montanas.
357
00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:25.680
Those were the big three. And in the seventies you
358
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:31.319
had you know, uh, you had Starbucks, Starbuck and Bradshall.
359
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:33.119
But isn't it funny?
360
00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:38.079
Hell, the quarterback is the equivalent to football, with the
361
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:39.319
pitcher is the baseball.
362
00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:40.519
But quarterbacks.
363
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:43.720
Everybody wants quarterbacks rather in baseball, not too many people
364
00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:45.519
talk about pitchers really well.
365
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.880
Pet you know, we talked about injuries, right, Pincher's at
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00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.960
one position where they're more injury prone than your everyday
367
00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:57.240
position players, which sounds weird because everyday position players are
368
00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:02.000
generally playing every day, where starting pitcher, you know, makes
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00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:05.319
us us start every fifth, uh every fifth or sixth day.
370
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:08.559
So there's you know, they're out there, they're scene less,
371
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:12.000
but we're throwing the ball one hundred times a game
372
00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:13.720
right at high velocity.
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00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:16.839
And we look at today's play like a guy through
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00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:17.480
one hundred.
375
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:18.119
Uh.
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00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.599
Back in the in the fifties, sixties, seventies, that was
377
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.559
a huge deal. That guy was like ahead of the curve. Now,
378
00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:27.559
you throw under one hundred, you don't get in the
379
00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.680
high nineties. You're almost not going to get drafted unless
380
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:32.319
you're out unless your off speed.
381
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:36.440
Pitchers are just so great. Yeah, that it offsets that
382
00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:38.440
so but because you're.
383
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:40.440
Throwing the ball so hard and you're throwing the ball
384
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:43.880
so much, you know, Tommy John has become a household term.
385
00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:46.160
And we're not talking about the underwear, and we're not
386
00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:49.359
talking about the former Dodgers and Yankees.
387
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:52.960
Pitcher, although we are because it was it was it
388
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.319
was named after him because he was really the first one.
389
00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.400
It was kind of break breakthrough surgery. But like you know,
390
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.279
back in the day someone had Tommy John surgery, they
391
00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:06.480
were you question whether they could ever return to form.
392
00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:10.640
Now the pitcher's gonna miss time, but in most cases
393
00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:14.880
they come back and playing or in you know, pretty
394
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:16.480
similar to the level.
395
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:17.680
Of pre surgery.
396
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:20.319
The other thing, real quick, I want to talk about,
397
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.599
baseball has something that football doesn't have, and I think
398
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.759
it plays into this, probably more so in today's Martin market,
399
00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:31.759
but even back then. I'll tie it into the vintage too.
400
00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:35.640
What does baseball have that football doesn't have. That's a
401
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:40.160
minor league system. You know today, you know, baseball draft
402
00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:43.599
those guys be with the rare exception, anyone drafted in
403
00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:46.680
the baseball draft is reporting to a minor league team,
404
00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:50.839
whether that be rookie single, a double, A never really
405
00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:53.920
trip away. There's that rare exception where they might go
406
00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:57.079
right to the bigs, especially if they're four years in college,
407
00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:01.319
which actually doesn't happen as much any more. In football,
408
00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:04.440
you get drafted, you're on the club, and you're either
409
00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:07.599
making the football club or you're gonna get cut right.
410
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:11.519
And if you make the football club and you don't
411
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:15.920
produce right, their patients in the NFL has gotten very
412
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:17.079
a lot thinner.
413
00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:20.359
You can be cut, which we're seeing right now over
414
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:27.440
in Minnesota because because number nine, because everybody calls the nine.
415
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:30.920
All these kids, especially my son, like he's out. They
416
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:32.400
just signed Murray.
417
00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:38.440
Uh, you don't have time where baseball, Tony, you can
418
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:41.039
get drafted and be in the minor league five years
419
00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:45.000
honing your your skill set and then get the call
420
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:50.960
up and produce right. You've had more practice, if you will.
421
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:54.400
And when it comes to cards, more people you know,
422
00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:57.720
we know Bowman and Bowman draft, people are prospecting. People
423
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:01.200
are buying these guys three, four or five years before
424
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.640
they ever make the big leagues potentially. Now, I used
425
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:08.160
to do it more years ago than I do it now.
426
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:12.559
But you don't have that opportunity in football. And same
427
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.440
thing that's not a new concept like there wasn't there
428
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.279
was minor leagues back in the forties and fifties in
429
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:21.880
baseball and football was similar like now they had a
430
00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:25.400
draft and you either made the football team or you
431
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:27.680
got a real job. But when you didn't make it
432
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:32.599
in the pros, right, and so people will will I
433
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:35.839
think people will spend more money when they're sort of
434
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:40.119
more you know, fallback like I have more time, where
435
00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:41.599
football you have less time.
436
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:42.240
You could lose.
437
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:46.359
Before we start looking at the cards, I just had
438
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:51.720
a funny thought. Can you imagine if Pat Mahomes played
439
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:55.599
with like five did the five inning equivalent?
440
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:56.240
Oh?
441
00:24:56.359 --> 00:24:59.599
Look, pictures do oh you got to take them out
442
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:02.640
at seve the pitches of Pat Mahomes. Guests, what you
443
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:05.480
gotta come out after halftime? We're bringing you out at
444
00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:08.799
the half way through the through the third quarter. It's
445
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.839
just yeah, it's just funny. But so John, you and
446
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:17.400
I talked about some cards and we have the comparisons
447
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:20.799
and we're gonna for those. We're not gonna have a
448
00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:25.119
video version of this, but we're gonna talk through the cards.
449
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:30.359
So it's a very radio friendly, you know, audio friendly way.
450
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:33.039
Let's get right into it.
451
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:36.279
So the first card that we talked about in our
452
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:38.319
comparisons that we came up with the list was a
453
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:42.640
nineteen thirty five National Chico Bronco ne Durski.
454
00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:44.880
And for all these cards that.
455
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:48.319
We talk about, when we go through the values, we're
456
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:53.480
gonna use the PSA grade uh for the decade they're in.
457
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:55.880
So if we're talking about a thirties card, we'll use
458
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:58.160
the PSA three. If we're talking about a fifties card,
459
00:25:58.200 --> 00:25:59.279
we'll use PSA five.
460
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:00.839
And all the.
461
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:05.000
Values that we're getting is from the card Ladder platform.
462
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:08.920
So thanks for those fellows for having a really great
463
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:15.160
app and with decent prices. With the sales history so
464
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:19.039
brought on the Juriski. The last PSA three sale was
465
00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:23.440
for forty eight point eight thousand dollars, So forty eight
466
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:27.519
eight hundred dollars, and that was from January this year,
467
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:33.160
January thirty first. That's quite the sale. Now you would say, okay,
468
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:37.920
nearly fifty thousand dollars for the best football card we
469
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.920
have in existence when it comes to vintage, Well, let's
470
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:44.559
compare that to a historic baseball card that you and
471
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:48.680
I came up with. And we kind of also, John
472
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.920
and I backed this comparison's up and even the ones
473
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:56.440
after this with chat, GPT and other systems, so we're
474
00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:59.799
not just you know, picking get ourselves. There's some method
475
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:04.079
or madness. Would be the T to six on his Wagner.
476
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:05.279
Now for this one.
477
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:08.000
We just happened to fall on a PSA one because
478
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.599
we had a recent seale of that, and we took
479
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:14.519
the nicer version of the PSA one that was recently sold.
480
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:21.839
So the quote Honus Wagner of of baseball cards or
481
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:24.359
the Bronco and the Jersky, I should say a football
482
00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:25.079
cards would.
483
00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:25.440
Be the Wagner.
484
00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:29.799
So you got five point one million versus forty eight
485
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:33.279
thousand dollars fit forty nine thousand dollars. That's a big,
486
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:34.559
big difference.
487
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:36.559
And that's a massacre.
488
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:43.279
Yeah, and in terms of value, and they're both arguably listen, Tony,
489
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:47.000
they're both arguably the most iconic cards in the sport
490
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:49.279
and in the hobby of their sport.
491
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.680
So yeah, now people may say, yeah, but you know,
492
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:54.839
the Bronco has a higher pop.
493
00:27:54.759 --> 00:27:55.359
And that's true.
494
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.400
You know, there's about two hundred and fifty total graded
495
00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:04.799
amongst all the party greaters for that card. But again
496
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:07.160
it's just a huge difference. So if you want to
497
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:09.400
get the top football card of all time, I guess
498
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:12.599
it's more attainable than it is for baseball. So that's
499
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:16.599
the first that's the first comparison that we came up with.
500
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:20.039
The second one is the nineteen thirty three Gaudy Sports
501
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:25.400
Kings Newt Rockney and again PSA three, And the last
502
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:29.200
one that sold was November of twenty twenty five, or
503
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:33.839
nearly twenty five hundred dollars iconic football player, you know,
504
00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:38.960
probably known for more of his college speech than anything else,
505
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:44.039
but you know, twenty five hundred dollars for the maybe
506
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:48.240
the second most popular pre work card. Uh. Then we
507
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:54.160
go to this baseball equivalent, which and before we do that,
508
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:56.839
just so folks know, we're well aware, John and I
509
00:28:56.920 --> 00:28:59.519
are well aware that the Gaudy Sports Kings is a
510
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.960
multi sports set. It wasn't just one, but the equivalent
511
00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:07.279
today thirty three Gaudy Sports Kings we came up with51200:29:07.519 --> 00:29:10.799
was the thirty three Gallay Babe Ruth. Now we understand51300:29:11.039 --> 00:29:13.119
there's a Babe Ruth in that Sports King set, but51400:29:13.359 --> 00:29:16.079
it's a little bit more harder card to find than51500:29:16.240 --> 00:29:19.680
one of the four Gaudy cards. But the last PSA51600:29:19.880 --> 00:29:25.160
three sold for nineteen thousand dollars in March ninth, twenty51700:29:25.240 --> 00:29:29.119
twenty six, about a week ago of US recording the show,51800:29:29.599 --> 00:29:34.079
so Newt sold for twenty five hundred dollars round it51900:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.279
and the Babe is sold for a nineteen thousand, big52000:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.039
big gap. What are your thoughts about this card difference?52100:29:41.599 --> 00:29:43.960
Yeah, I mean new Rockney is, like you said, he's52200:29:43.960 --> 00:29:47.480
a legend, Notre Dame coach, like you know what I mean.52300:29:47.640 --> 00:29:50.480
But Babe Ruth isn't a whole different. You know, like52400:29:50.640 --> 00:29:54.359
kids today know who Babe Ruth is for most of them, right.52500:29:54.880 --> 00:29:58.240
I don't think kids today, if you say Newt Rockney,52600:29:58.839 --> 00:30:01.799
they might even laugh because of the name, right, Newt Rockney.52700:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.720
They might even think he did well. What character was52800:30:04.799 --> 00:30:07.720
he on on the Flintstones? Newt Rockney was that like52900:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.279
Fred's boss, you know, so, and I had half kid53000:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.200
in there. But like bay Ruth is just transcends I53100:30:15.240 --> 00:30:16.480
don't even want to say baseball.53200:30:16.559 --> 00:30:18.160
I think he transcends sports.53300:30:18.519 --> 00:30:20.960
Yeah.53400:30:21.400 --> 00:30:24.359
So I think while Newt Rockney is a legend, and53500:30:24.559 --> 00:30:28.480
and anyone who loves football knows what he's famous for53600:30:28.839 --> 00:30:32.240
and what he's known for, I think outside of football53700:30:32.839 --> 00:30:36.440
that knowledge it becomes more limited. And I think that's53800:30:36.920 --> 00:30:39.599
I mean, that's obviously why you uh, you know, and53900:30:39.799 --> 00:30:43.720
and frankly, you know, bay Ruth had a better playing career.54000:30:44.160 --> 00:30:46.839
You know, Rockney was known more for his coaching powers,54100:30:48.000 --> 00:30:50.880
So I think that I think that's the big difference.54200:30:50.960 --> 00:30:53.000
I think it's an easy, easy to figure.54300:30:53.799 --> 00:30:56.960
Now, win one for the Gipper comes to mind because54400:30:57.119 --> 00:30:59.720
you know, he made the speech and then Ronald Reagan's54500:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.640
form US President, you know, made a movie, whether you54600:31:03.920 --> 00:31:08.200
like his acting ability or not. So we did talk54700:31:08.240 --> 00:31:11.359
about including Jim Thorpe because he has a card too54800:31:11.480 --> 00:31:15.640
in this set, but we excluded him because he played both.54900:31:15.720 --> 00:31:18.519
I mean, you have Jim Thorpe baseball cards from the55000:31:19.000 --> 00:31:21.759
nineteen teams. You know, I think it's a nineteen twenty55100:31:21.839 --> 00:31:25.160
issue too, but I know you got football cards, so55200:31:25.200 --> 00:31:28.000
you got Olympic cards. He's in every set because he55300:31:28.119 --> 00:31:30.279
played so many different sports. So that's why some of55400:31:30.400 --> 00:31:34.039
our listeners may be wondering, why isn't Thorpe in their55500:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.200
ex because he played both sports. We're just trying to55600:31:36.279 --> 00:31:42.519
concentrate on long player athletes. The next card that you55700:31:42.680 --> 00:31:46.160
came up with was a very iconic card, the nineteen55800:31:46.279 --> 00:31:49.640
fifty eight tops Jim Brown, and we chose a PSA55900:31:49.799 --> 00:31:52.160
five for this because of the fifties, and the last56000:31:52.240 --> 00:31:55.079
one sold for sixteen hundred dollars.56100:31:55.680 --> 00:31:56.359
That's insane.56200:31:57.240 --> 00:32:03.000
Yeah, you have who I arguably called maybe the one56300:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.799
of the top football players of all time, maybe the56400:32:05.920 --> 00:32:10.119
Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb of football in terms of56500:32:10.319 --> 00:32:14.400
popularity for you know, player wise, maybe the Mickey Mantle56600:32:14.880 --> 00:32:15.440
of football.56700:32:15.799 --> 00:32:19.599
I mean, the Willie Mays of football. Jim Brown. He56800:32:19.839 --> 00:32:21.839
accomplished so many things.56900:32:22.119 --> 00:32:24.559
When they had twelve game seasons, then they went to57000:32:24.640 --> 00:32:27.559
fourteen game seasons, and he didn't even play for a57100:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.680
long time. He got out when you know, he felt57200:32:30.720 --> 00:32:34.599
his body was going. He won championships, he won MVPs,57300:32:35.119 --> 00:32:36.319
and he retired early.57400:32:36.799 --> 00:32:38.960
And then he became a movie a movie act. I57500:32:39.000 --> 00:32:40.839
don't want to say movie star, but he was.57600:32:41.240 --> 00:32:41.759
He was a star.57700:32:42.160 --> 00:32:46.640
Yeah, he became a movie star. Obviously, very outspoken and57800:32:46.839 --> 00:32:53.480
active and civil rights and social causes. Didn't mince words, right,57900:32:53.519 --> 00:32:54.720
He didn't have to wonder.58000:32:54.519 --> 00:32:56.039
What he was thinking. He would tell you.58100:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.799
And arguably, you know people talk about grace. When people58200:33:00.799 --> 00:33:03.640
talk about Jim Brown, they just say football.58300:33:04.920 --> 00:33:05.960
Ever to do it.58400:33:06.000 --> 00:33:08.519
They're not even they're not even putting a position on58500:33:08.680 --> 00:33:11.279
it where people say, oh, Barry Sanders was a great58600:33:11.359 --> 00:33:14.039
running back, maybe the greatest of all time. Jim Brown58700:33:14.200 --> 00:33:18.480
was just talking about maybe the best football player of58800:33:18.599 --> 00:33:21.519
all time, and he he cut his own career short58900:33:21.720 --> 00:33:26.599
short to pursue those other opportunities. And to think, and59000:33:26.680 --> 00:33:28.599
I got one behind me, not a five, but I59100:33:28.680 --> 00:33:30.599
have a Jim Brown rookie over my shoulder.59200:33:31.039 --> 00:33:33.599
And to think that a five is only you know,59300:33:34.079 --> 00:33:35.680
I know, I know ot of preference.59400:33:35.799 --> 00:33:38.680
When I say only sixteen hundred for some people to59500:33:38.759 --> 00:33:41.079
be like, well, that's still four figures. Well, when you59600:33:41.200 --> 00:33:44.480
think of all his accomplishments on the field and off,59700:33:45.319 --> 00:33:47.440
that's uh, that's not a high.59800:33:47.359 --> 00:33:50.119
Number to obtain to me an icon of card.59900:33:50.519 --> 00:33:53.720
And if you compare that Jim Brown to a fifty60000:33:53.799 --> 00:33:57.519
one Boom and Willie Mays the last PFA five May's60100:33:57.839 --> 00:34:02.680
sold this month or one thousand, three d and fifty dollars.60200:34:02.799 --> 00:34:05.519
And I'll say that, I'll say that real quick, Tony.60300:34:05.519 --> 00:34:06.839
I'll make this quick. Please.60400:34:06.839 --> 00:34:08.480
I think the will A Maze is I think the60500:34:08.519 --> 00:34:10.599
Willy Maze is underbattered at that price.60600:34:10.920 --> 00:34:14.239
M Yeah, we we picked the Maze over the mantle60700:34:14.280 --> 00:34:17.440
because mantle is gonna be used for another card. But60800:34:18.400 --> 00:34:21.559
I mean, we could have went with Jackie Robinson for60900:34:22.400 --> 00:34:25.679
Jim Brown. There was a number of players. We just61000:34:25.760 --> 00:34:28.119
felt like, you know, comparing the Hint to Mayze would61100:34:28.119 --> 00:34:30.039
probably make the most sense. Heck, we could have even61200:34:30.159 --> 00:34:34.079
use the fifty one Bowman mantle and use the fifty61300:34:34.119 --> 00:34:38.039
two tops you know mantle for another card, which we have.61400:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.480
But uh yeah, I just don't. I mean, Maze is61500:34:41.519 --> 00:34:43.960
one of the greats in his sport. Brown is one61600:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.199
of the greats in his sport. Uh, I just don't61700:34:48.280 --> 00:34:52.000
see this price gap difference being Uh, it just it's61800:34:52.360 --> 00:34:52.679
I just.61900:34:52.760 --> 00:34:55.280
Don't I see it and I hear it. I just62000:34:55.360 --> 00:34:59.000
don't agree with, especially with what we began the show with.62100:34:59.360 --> 00:35:04.000
With you know how much more popular football is than baseball,62200:35:04.239 --> 00:35:08.480
at least for today's standards. The next card we picked62300:35:08.880 --> 00:35:12.480
was a card I think you would agree with was62400:35:12.599 --> 00:35:15.559
far more popular when we were growing up, which is62500:35:15.599 --> 00:35:20.679
the sixty five Tops Joe Namath when I started collecting62600:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.280
cards in nineteen eighty four, but I really ramped up62700:35:24.320 --> 00:35:28.039
in nineteen eighty six. Uh and I got a couple62800:35:28.280 --> 00:35:34.159
Becket issues, the annual issues in this case, but pretty62900:35:34.239 --> 00:35:37.920
much other sport card Price Guides CCP comes to mind63000:35:37.960 --> 00:35:40.599
where they had football cards. This is one of those63100:35:40.679 --> 00:35:43.760
cards where I thought this was the nineteen fifty two63200:35:43.840 --> 00:35:46.039
Tops Mackey Mantle of football cards.63300:35:46.840 --> 00:35:50.639
You had Nay Myth holding the ball. I don't even63400:35:50.679 --> 00:35:52.800
think this is a licensed card. I'm not sure. I63500:35:52.840 --> 00:35:54.400
would have to check. I should have did this check63600:35:54.440 --> 00:35:55.760
in before, but.63700:35:55.880 --> 00:35:59.119
I know the Tops. Yeah, and Tops only had.63800:35:59.039 --> 00:36:05.280
The NFL at this for this year because another manufacturer63900:36:05.440 --> 00:36:09.320
produced the NFL cards because they were talking about merging64000:36:09.400 --> 00:36:11.519
and stuff like that. But I mean, Name it he's64100:36:11.760 --> 00:36:14.679
iconic for not only the Super Bowl win, but a64200:36:14.760 --> 00:36:18.280
lot of people give Name going to the NFL. The64300:36:18.519 --> 00:36:22.880
uh was it the AFC or the NFL. I keep saying, sorry, AFL,64400:36:23.000 --> 00:36:26.599
Sorry AFL. He I mean they give him credit for64500:36:27.519 --> 00:36:31.880
uniting both the NFL and the AFL to form the64600:36:32.000 --> 00:36:36.400
league from the merger. And yeah, so growing up, this64700:36:36.639 --> 00:36:38.079
was a far more popular card.64800:36:38.440 --> 00:36:38.599
Yeah.64900:36:38.679 --> 00:36:42.000
Name never had the stats that we saw in the65000:36:42.119 --> 00:36:48.159
nineteen eighties with Montana and Marino and uh Elway, But65100:36:48.840 --> 00:36:51.880
people forget that Name also was the first quarterback in65200:36:51.960 --> 00:36:54.800
history to throw for over four thousand yards in a65300:36:55.320 --> 00:36:57.719
one season and it was only a fourteen game season.65400:36:58.119 --> 00:37:00.400
Yeah, we gotta remember two of the rules were were dead.65500:37:00.599 --> 00:37:05.840
The cornerbacks could like hand check the receivers past five yards.65600:37:05.880 --> 00:37:09.079
It was more physical with the corners on the receivers,65700:37:09.119 --> 00:37:12.159
so it's harder to get open if you will. Now,65800:37:12.239 --> 00:37:14.559
I do think Name It's this sort of overrated when65900:37:14.599 --> 00:37:18.440
you look at his overall numbers. Yeah, if you have66000:37:18.559 --> 00:37:21.280
to fact check me. But might have thrown more picks66100:37:21.320 --> 00:37:25.599
than touchdowns in his career again, if he did, keep66200:37:25.639 --> 00:37:28.519
in mind some of the rules were different than that.66300:37:28.719 --> 00:37:32.519
That played into why those numbers may look different. But66400:37:32.639 --> 00:37:37.599
he's known for the Guarantee right for being braggadocious. They66500:37:37.639 --> 00:37:41.760
were major underdogs and he was like, we're winning this game.66600:37:41.920 --> 00:37:46.119
Watch watch the game. Uh, we're winning, And people thought66700:37:46.239 --> 00:37:49.360
like and that you know that stuff today is sort66800:37:49.400 --> 00:37:52.119
of so commonplace we don't even think twice about it66900:37:52.199 --> 00:37:52.639
as much.67000:37:52.960 --> 00:37:55.960
But back then, uh, people there wasn't a lot of67100:37:56.039 --> 00:37:56.800
trash talkings.67200:37:56.840 --> 00:38:00.000
So that made like front page that was front page news.67300:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.639
His name is guarantees victory right.67400:38:03.039 --> 00:38:05.159
Here, seventeen point underdog if.67500:38:06.039 --> 00:38:07.440
And backed it up.67600:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.519
So I think that plays into his legend to and67700:38:10.760 --> 00:38:14.920
into why this card is so popular. I'm not a67800:38:15.079 --> 00:38:18.320
fan of Name It as maybe some other people are,67900:38:18.559 --> 00:38:21.280
but you know, it is what it is like he68000:38:21.800 --> 00:38:23.079
he did that it played in.68100:38:23.559 --> 00:38:25.159
He was very, very outspoken.68200:38:25.199 --> 00:38:28.519
He's doing a lot of commercials wearing fur coats, even68300:38:28.599 --> 00:38:32.760
did a even did an ad where he's wearing women's pantyhose, right,68400:38:32.880 --> 00:38:36.440
stuff that other people wouldn't dare dude, he dare do68500:38:37.199 --> 00:38:38.639
He took that chance.68600:38:38.440 --> 00:38:40.320
And it paid off for him. And then we know68700:38:40.480 --> 00:38:43.400
later on, you know, some other stuff not not his68800:38:43.519 --> 00:38:46.119
fine at moments. Uh you know, he got a little68900:38:46.239 --> 00:38:46.519
bit of.69000:38:49.119 --> 00:38:54.079
Sue Cooper and yeah, I don't care about the druggling69100:38:55.440 --> 00:38:56.800
right right the rest.69200:38:57.400 --> 00:39:01.760
So he's he stayed in sort of linelight. Even post career.69300:39:02.239 --> 00:39:04.960
People always want to talk to him about why'd you69400:39:05.039 --> 00:39:06.039
make that guarantee?69500:39:06.199 --> 00:39:07.400
What was going through your mind?69600:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.840
Even though he's probably said it fifty million times, everyone69700:39:10.960 --> 00:39:13.079
still wants to talk about Yeah.69800:39:13.119 --> 00:39:17.719
And uh so at this when Nayth was in his69900:39:17.840 --> 00:39:21.639
heyday and the Jets were actually pretty good, because there's70000:39:22.320 --> 00:39:25.440
you Weibanks is the reason why the Jets didn't have70100:39:25.519 --> 00:39:28.199
a dynasty because he started selling off players. They had70200:39:28.239 --> 00:39:32.960
players who went on to other teams. But Namath was70300:39:33.039 --> 00:39:37.119
in New York City and he hung around with Mickey Mantle.70400:39:37.239 --> 00:39:38.400
They went to the same.70500:39:38.320 --> 00:39:42.400
Clubs, bars, you know, touts shores comes to mind. And70600:39:42.559 --> 00:39:45.960
if you look at old SI issues, Nay, it was70700:39:46.079 --> 00:39:49.360
on just as many covers as any other athlete. I70800:39:49.599 --> 00:39:53.800
have a nineteen seventy two SI issue in my office70900:39:54.360 --> 00:39:56.239
and name it is on the cover. And that's the71000:39:56.320 --> 00:40:00.360
same issue that Roberto Clemente was written about out for71100:40:00.480 --> 00:40:05.119
having hit his three thousand tick. And while Namath has71200:40:05.199 --> 00:40:10.440
a whole spread plus to cover, only one paragraph is71300:40:11.039 --> 00:40:15.880
devoted towards Clemente hitting three thousand tits. It's just mind boggling.71400:40:16.199 --> 00:40:18.960
So with that in mind, and with Namath being in71500:40:19.079 --> 00:40:22.000
New York and even hanging out with Mickey Manto. In fact,71600:40:22.159 --> 00:40:25.199
the first time he met Mansell, he was starstruck by71700:40:25.280 --> 00:40:27.920
him and Mantle said, well, you know, you're pretty damn popular.71800:40:28.119 --> 00:40:29.480
You're yourself, Joe.71900:40:30.199 --> 00:40:32.239
So yeah, But we have to.72000:40:32.280 --> 00:40:35.199
Compare this to the fifty two tops Mickey Mantle in72100:40:35.239 --> 00:40:39.199
the PSA five grade. So the name of the last72200:40:39.239 --> 00:40:41.800
PSA five name Myth, as we said, sold for forty72300:40:42.199 --> 00:40:45.840
nine to twenty on mar Chase. The last PSA five72400:40:45.960 --> 00:40:50.239
mantles sold February twenty first, twenty twenty six for two72500:40:50.440 --> 00:40:53.239
hundred and fourteen thousand dollars rounded up.72600:40:53.679 --> 00:40:57.199
Wow, I mean, and we understand the tea.72700:40:59.000 --> 00:41:00.920
I'll make it up. I'm not big name is guys,72800:41:00.960 --> 00:41:03.280
so I'll make it up. You know, I can make72900:41:03.320 --> 00:41:05.960
an argument that but that in my book, it might73000:41:06.039 --> 00:41:06.559
be high for.73100:41:06.800 --> 00:41:07.320
For name it.73200:41:07.480 --> 00:41:10.079
But you got to keep in mind the year of73300:41:10.119 --> 00:41:12.639
the card, how many there were, like all all those73400:41:12.719 --> 00:41:16.480
factors that go into it. But yeah, yeah, you know,73500:41:16.559 --> 00:41:19.480
when you look at careers, Mano's career, name of career,73600:41:20.360 --> 00:41:22.599
you take away all the glitz and the glamour and73700:41:22.679 --> 00:41:25.679
the cover boys stuff. I mean, Mano was to me73800:41:26.360 --> 00:41:28.480
better in his sport comparably.73900:41:28.800 --> 00:41:30.320
Yeah, in the name, Yeah, every way.74000:41:30.440 --> 00:41:33.679
I just included this comparison because growing up, you know,74100:41:33.840 --> 00:41:37.800
all the magazines and price guides always even baseball card74200:41:38.320 --> 00:41:41.320
baseball cards which came out on them it was every74300:41:41.360 --> 00:41:43.519
other month, then it came out every month.74400:41:43.880 --> 00:41:45.880
They always compared the fifty.74500:41:45.599 --> 00:41:49.719
Two Topspintle for some reason too, that Joe Namath card. Uh.74600:41:50.400 --> 00:41:53.119
Next up, you want to give this one.74700:41:53.599 --> 00:41:54.920
Let's see, we'll put it up here.74800:41:55.280 --> 00:41:59.360
Oh, the Iuto gram, Yeah, the the fifty Bowman idol74900:41:59.440 --> 00:42:05.039
Graham are arguably you know, the first uh probably you know,75000:42:05.239 --> 00:42:10.039
superstar quarterback if you will, comparably speaking, and as we75100:42:10.159 --> 00:42:14.360
mentioned earlier, like people don't even talk about them really anymore. Again,75200:42:14.440 --> 00:42:17.880
it was a different error, different rules, not so much75300:42:17.920 --> 00:42:21.760
a passing league. Uh and what do go ahead and75400:42:21.840 --> 00:42:23.800
give out the grade and the sale there?75500:42:24.039 --> 00:42:27.159
Yeah, so it's a PSA five and it was sold75600:42:27.519 --> 00:42:33.199
March this month for one and eighty five dollars. No,75700:42:33.360 --> 00:42:35.880
it's not, it's not a it's not a hard card75800:42:35.960 --> 00:42:37.760
to find if you want to find centered. It's pretty75900:42:37.840 --> 00:42:40.559
damn hard if you want to find it signed with76000:42:40.719 --> 00:42:44.280
the true signature. And I laughed at that because I76100:42:44.400 --> 00:42:47.519
was just holding to a friend about the number of76200:42:47.960 --> 00:42:53.960
another friend about the number of autogram signatures. Us, it's76300:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.719
a hard card to find centered. It's a hard card76400:42:56.760 --> 00:42:59.920
to find signed h you know, with a good qu76500:43:00.039 --> 00:43:04.079
quality ballpointed signature. But for this one, this is a76600:43:04.280 --> 00:43:08.320
very unusual comparison. We wanted to get another, you know,76700:43:08.519 --> 00:43:11.360
Bowman cars, so we went with the Jackie card. Now,76800:43:11.480 --> 00:43:17.159
obviously the forty nine Bowman Jackie and the fifty Bowman autogram.76900:43:18.199 --> 00:43:20.480
The only thing they pretty much share in common are77000:43:20.599 --> 00:43:23.719
one they were both made by Bowman, and two they're77100:43:23.760 --> 00:43:26.840
both rookie cars. Because we know there's no such thing77200:43:26.880 --> 00:43:30.480
as a forty eight leaf Jackie Robinson. It's forty nine77300:43:30.599 --> 00:43:32.559
leaf Jackie Jackie Robinson.77400:43:33.039 --> 00:43:37.880
So the LASTA five, Well, I guess now people are77500:43:37.920 --> 00:43:39.920
calling it forty eight forty nine.77600:43:40.559 --> 00:43:44.880
Yeah it was, yeah, but yeah, totally get it.77700:43:45.199 --> 00:43:47.880
If you go back the old price guides from the77800:43:48.000 --> 00:43:52.239
early nineteen eighties, you really didn't even see the leaf77900:43:52.639 --> 00:43:57.199
set issued. Oh sorry, the leaf set published the price guys.78000:43:57.519 --> 00:43:59.639
But when you did started to see it, it was78100:44:00.000 --> 00:44:03.039
forty nine leaf. Somebody at PSA made a decision to78200:44:03.079 --> 00:44:06.480
call it forty eight without any basis, probably David Hall,78300:44:06.599 --> 00:44:08.880
I'm just guessing, because he probably had to give to78400:44:08.960 --> 00:44:11.440
go ahead to that or someone who worked for him.78500:44:11.960 --> 00:44:17.199
Because this because I actually saw a old PSA flip78600:44:17.360 --> 00:44:19.440
at the Philly Show and I took a screenshot of78700:44:19.519 --> 00:44:23.000
it about two years ago, and the flip on this78800:44:23.239 --> 00:44:27.639
PSA grated Jackie Robinson was actually set forty nine leaf.78900:44:28.159 --> 00:44:31.440
So at some point PSA did call them forty nine LEAs,79000:44:31.519 --> 00:44:34.480
but for some reason there was a change. So we79100:44:34.639 --> 00:44:40.719
talked about the autogram PSA five sold for almost thirteen79200:44:40.840 --> 00:44:44.519
hundred round it. Well, the last PSA five Jackie sold79300:44:44.599 --> 00:44:49.159
for fifteen thou six hundred dollars. Okay, but we understand79400:44:49.280 --> 00:44:52.119
the differences of the popularity of the players, but for79500:44:52.239 --> 00:44:55.159
this comparison, so for the comparison's sake, this is the79600:44:55.280 --> 00:44:58.760
last card that the last two cards that we picked,79700:45:00.039 --> 00:45:02.679
and uh, you know, this is probably the worst comparison79800:45:02.840 --> 00:45:05.599
I think of the cards of all the players who79900:45:05.679 --> 00:45:07.639
we did compare from baseball to.80000:45:09.239 --> 00:45:09.679
Football.80100:45:10.000 --> 00:45:13.199
But at the same time, you know, they do have80200:45:13.679 --> 00:45:16.039
a little bit of things in common, but very different80300:45:16.400 --> 00:45:21.719
players and very different meanings to their sports. So John,80400:45:21.880 --> 00:45:25.360
I wanted I thought about a few different reasons why80500:45:26.199 --> 00:45:29.760
you know vintage football is is it nearly as popular80600:45:29.920 --> 00:45:33.679
as vintage baseball? And you touched upon this in the80700:45:33.760 --> 00:45:37.800
beginning of the show. I wanted to talk about the80800:45:38.639 --> 00:45:42.079
history and not so much about the history of each sport,80900:45:42.599 --> 00:45:46.280
but what about the history? And I came up with81000:45:46.559 --> 00:45:52.559
two glaring assets that baseball has which football doesn't have.81100:45:52.880 --> 00:45:56.159
And for some reason it's I don't see it ever happening.81200:45:56.360 --> 00:46:01.599
Is Saber. We have a Saber organization for baseball. We81300:46:01.719 --> 00:46:04.920
don't have it for basketball. We don't have it for football.81400:46:05.480 --> 00:46:08.559
And I just think that's number one. We have no81500:46:08.920 --> 00:46:12.639
historians that are really writing about I mean they're trying81600:46:12.719 --> 00:46:15.400
to with some books, but usually it's there.81700:46:17.199 --> 00:46:20.280
They're football and basketball historians, but they're like almost like81800:46:21.880 --> 00:46:25.559
there's no group together, like sitting down in a room81900:46:25.599 --> 00:46:28.719
and saying, Hey, what's not being talked about that we82000:46:28.920 --> 00:46:31.440
need to get out there and put this together.82100:46:31.880 --> 00:46:33.320
Yeah, who's bringing them together?82200:46:33.559 --> 00:46:36.519
Great point about Saber, right, and it goes back to82300:46:36.679 --> 00:46:38.159
my earlier point. I'll make this short.82400:46:38.280 --> 00:46:39.639
Right, we know.82500:46:39.920 --> 00:46:44.079
Baseball record book numbers where we don't know football and82600:46:44.199 --> 00:46:47.920
even basketball. I know this was not a basketball kind82700:46:47.960 --> 00:46:51.519
of show today, but when you look at baseball historic82800:46:52.000 --> 00:46:56.360
record numbers, we know them verbatim and we don't not82900:46:56.519 --> 00:46:59.639
only do we not know them in basketball in some83000:46:59.800 --> 00:47:02.639
case says we don't even know who the record holder is.83100:47:02.800 --> 00:47:05.840
Let know the number, right, there's people will get the83200:47:06.400 --> 00:47:07.679
all time rushing leader?83300:47:07.800 --> 00:47:08.000
Wrong?83400:47:08.199 --> 00:47:08.320
Right?83500:47:08.800 --> 00:47:12.360
We know Will, We know Will's hundred point game, right,83600:47:12.480 --> 00:47:15.239
but do we know do people know who is the83700:47:15.320 --> 00:47:19.079
all time leader in scoring in the NBA?83800:47:19.400 --> 00:47:19.559
Right?83900:47:20.320 --> 00:47:23.360
People don't know those things where we know like the84000:47:23.480 --> 00:47:27.280
all time home run hit. We know the Pete Rose84100:47:27.400 --> 00:47:30.599
is the all time hits leader, not in the Hall84200:47:30.719 --> 00:47:34.599
at this point, but probably should be post you know,84300:47:35.480 --> 00:47:36.159
post deaths.84400:47:36.239 --> 00:47:38.199
So so baseball just but.84500:47:38.280 --> 00:47:42.719
There's more history pertaining to records in numbers than the84600:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.760
other any sport, let's make it just We'll just say84700:47:45.800 --> 00:47:49.360
any sport. You know, there's there's people who aren't even84800:47:49.400 --> 00:47:54.400
necessarily huge baseball fans that know certain baseball numbers just84900:47:54.559 --> 00:47:56.960
because it's such a lexicon.85000:47:57.639 --> 00:47:59.480
So I'm gonna put you on the spot right now.85100:48:00.079 --> 00:48:02.400
Can you name and you know the player?85200:48:02.519 --> 00:48:05.840
But how many home runs to Barry Bonds hit in85300:48:05.920 --> 00:48:07.719
that year when he broke the record in.85400:48:07.800 --> 00:48:08.480
Two thousand and one?85500:48:08.880 --> 00:48:10.960
I believe it was seventy three? Bingo?85600:48:11.360 --> 00:48:17.159
Okay, and do you remember, well, you know, Bingo. I85700:48:17.320 --> 00:48:19.320
just liked how you knew that right off the bat. Okay,85800:48:20.599 --> 00:48:21.960
A huge Barry Bonds guy?85900:48:22.519 --> 00:48:27.320
Yeah, neither of mine. So who this is a two parter?86000:48:27.840 --> 00:48:31.079
Which player? And how many have the most single season86100:48:31.440 --> 00:48:32.320
touchdown passes?86200:48:32.679 --> 00:48:34.000
Who led? Like led?86300:48:34.119 --> 00:48:38.239
The name and the number of this quarterback who threw86400:48:38.679 --> 00:48:41.280
the most touchdowns in a single season?86500:48:41.719 --> 00:48:44.039
Didn't Mahomes do fifty something?86600:48:45.400 --> 00:48:50.079
He's second with fifty. But this, but this illustrates your point.86700:48:51.199 --> 00:48:53.920
I mean, I asked you a question and you knew86800:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.800
the base line. You're not even a Bonds fan, and86900:48:56.840 --> 00:48:58.360
you knew the number right up the back of your87000:48:58.719 --> 00:49:01.480
in the right of theft your hand head. And then87100:49:01.880 --> 00:49:05.599
when it comes to football, Mahomes is second with fifty87200:49:05.800 --> 00:49:06.960
in twenty eighteen.87300:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.280
Do you know the first person?87400:49:10.199 --> 00:49:10.880
Is it Brady?87500:49:11.360 --> 00:49:13.719
He's third, tied with Mahomes.87600:49:13.840 --> 00:49:17.280
He's actually tied for second with fifty in two thousand87700:49:17.280 --> 00:49:17.679
and seven.87800:49:18.599 --> 00:49:21.119
Is it still Marino? I don't I wouldn't think so.87900:49:22.199 --> 00:49:26.400
Marino is fifth with forty eight in nineteen.88000:49:27.039 --> 00:49:29.760
I'm going to be mad at myself for not knowing.88100:49:31.599 --> 00:49:35.920
This illustrates the problem with not having saber for football,88200:49:36.440 --> 00:49:40.559
like an organization that compiles like all the John Thorns88300:49:40.639 --> 00:49:44.480
of the world into one organization where they is you88400:49:44.639 --> 00:49:48.320
have a brain trust? Or ken Burns? Where is ken88500:49:48.400 --> 00:49:53.679
Burns documentary on the NFL? I mean, come on, someone else,88600:49:53.840 --> 00:49:54.239
is right?88700:49:54.400 --> 00:49:54.639
Someone?88800:49:54.800 --> 00:49:55.000
Yeah?88900:49:55.039 --> 00:49:55.559
Anybody?89000:49:56.000 --> 00:49:58.719
Look, I'm still mad about ken Burns how he believed89100:49:58.760 --> 00:50:01.599
Al Stump for all the things about pod Com.89200:50:01.679 --> 00:50:02.679
But that's for a different show.89300:50:03.280 --> 00:50:07.199
It's Peyton Nanning with fifty five in twenty thirteen.89400:50:07.519 --> 00:50:11.760
Yeah, I should know that I love Bateman and that'sers.89500:50:12.159 --> 00:50:14.440
Yeah, he was a great quarterback and nobody really talks89600:50:14.480 --> 00:50:15.360
us about him anymore.89700:50:15.360 --> 00:50:17.880
Everything is Mahomes and Brady and you know.89800:50:18.119 --> 00:50:22.559
But the problem with Peyton is he played under Brady's shadow.89900:50:23.039 --> 00:50:25.199
I can make an argument this week. This could be90000:50:25.239 --> 00:50:28.039
a whole other show. I've said this on my podcast90100:50:28.400 --> 00:50:32.360
as My Dog Marked. I can make an argument that Brady,90200:50:32.559 --> 00:50:35.559
that Peyton Manny was a better quarterback than Tom Brady.90300:50:35.800 --> 00:50:38.880
He just didn't have the coaching staff and the system90400:50:39.000 --> 00:50:42.000
in place to win more rings and Brady did.90500:50:42.440 --> 00:50:45.400
I think for the first half of Manning's career he90600:50:45.599 --> 00:50:49.920
was considered the better quarterback, even though Brady had more90700:50:50.000 --> 00:50:50.880
Super Bowl wins.90800:50:50.960 --> 00:50:55.360
But at some point when because Brady.90900:50:57.280 --> 00:50:59.119
Manning, I mean, I think for the first half of91000:50:59.199 --> 00:51:02.159
Manning's career he was considered the better of the two91100:51:02.239 --> 00:51:05.920
quarterbacks despite having what Super Bowl wins. And then when91200:51:06.000 --> 00:51:09.000
Brady went to Denver and he won a Super Bowl91300:51:09.079 --> 00:51:12.360
there and he played in other super Bowl when Manning,91400:51:12.880 --> 00:51:17.000
when Manning went to Denver, he took a year off91500:51:17.119 --> 00:51:20.559
to you know, heal up and get his therapy. Uh,91600:51:21.239 --> 00:51:24.239
it was too late. Brady took over that mantle. It91700:51:24.280 --> 00:51:27.079
didn't matter even if he would have won, you know,91800:51:27.159 --> 00:51:28.679
an extra super Bowl ring or so.91900:51:29.440 --> 00:51:34.000
But that's a it's just another example. So that's what92000:51:34.199 --> 00:51:36.599
I had for today on this topic.92100:51:37.280 --> 00:51:40.239
We need an organization or we need someone like Ken92200:51:40.320 --> 00:51:44.079
Burns to make a video about the history of football,92300:51:44.239 --> 00:51:45.199
and maybe that would help.92400:51:45.960 --> 00:51:46.559
I think it would.92500:51:46.639 --> 00:51:49.639
I think it would help. But I think baseball. Tony92600:51:50.159 --> 00:51:51.760
has such a head start in this.92700:51:52.000 --> 00:51:54.559
Race, but cares about baseball today.92800:51:55.079 --> 00:51:59.239
It apparently, you know, if you want to end it92900:51:59.320 --> 00:52:02.440
on I thought about this before we even recorded. You know,93000:52:02.519 --> 00:52:05.400
whether that gap will be closed. I think fifty years93100:52:05.480 --> 00:52:07.519
from now, I won't be You might.93200:52:07.599 --> 00:52:13.519
Still you'll you'll be here years from now because I'll93300:52:13.519 --> 00:52:15.000
be one hundred, I'll be like Yoda.93400:52:16.639 --> 00:52:20.079
But uh, fifty years from now, I think the same93500:52:20.199 --> 00:52:25.199
conversation might be different because that Brady contenders a lot93600:52:25.280 --> 00:52:27.679
of the r pas there in.93700:52:27.800 --> 00:52:31.119
Football my home stuff.93800:52:31.880 --> 00:52:36.360
So this too to another Tony and another John might93900:52:36.440 --> 00:52:40.000
be doing this show talking about the baseball being so94000:52:40.199 --> 00:52:46.960
far behind in vintage football prices, right, so you know that's.94100:52:47.159 --> 00:52:48.079
Things can change.94200:52:48.119 --> 00:52:50.719
It's just gonna take It's not it's not gonna I'll94300:52:50.760 --> 00:52:53.679
say this, It's probably not gonna happen in our lifetime,94400:52:53.760 --> 00:52:54.800
but eventually it might.94500:52:55.719 --> 00:52:59.119
Not to go off on another into another rabbit hole,94600:52:59.119 --> 00:53:00.960
because we're already jumped into a few of them. But94700:53:02.039 --> 00:53:05.960
if what people are predicting for two thousand and twenty94800:53:06.079 --> 00:53:09.840
seventh with Major League Baseball, let's say that season is missed.94900:53:10.199 --> 00:53:13.280
Let's say, worst case, the twenty twenty seven season is missed.95000:53:13.320 --> 00:53:16.800
It's actually even worse than what happen in nineteen ninety four.95100:53:17.360 --> 00:53:20.440
Do you think it helps vintage football more?95200:53:20.920 --> 00:53:23.320
I think so. I mean how much I guess we could.95300:53:23.360 --> 00:53:24.400
That could be the argument.95400:53:24.440 --> 00:53:26.920
But of course it's gonna help because how many times95500:53:27.039 --> 00:53:30.880
we've seen you mentioned the ninety four strike. I remember95600:53:31.360 --> 00:53:34.239
I was in cards then, yeah, two years old. How95700:53:34.280 --> 00:53:36.760
many people are like, I'm done collecting cards. I'm selling95800:53:36.880 --> 00:53:39.519
my cars. These guys are greedy. I don't even want95900:53:39.559 --> 00:53:43.199
to pay for packs and open boxes. Right, they're gonna96000:53:43.199 --> 00:53:46.199
get rid of their car. There's gonna be a sour case,96100:53:46.320 --> 00:53:50.519
you will, and baseball fans and baseball collectors, right, maybe96200:53:50.679 --> 00:53:53.480
some of those folks that are saying I'm getting out96300:53:53.480 --> 00:53:55.559
of the hobby. Maybe instead of saying they're getting out96400:53:55.559 --> 00:53:57.559
of the hobby, they're gonna be like, hey, I'm gonna96500:53:57.559 --> 00:54:01.119
start collector football cards. And anytime if someone comes into96600:54:01.199 --> 00:54:04.480
a new part of the hobby, right, some of those96700:54:04.559 --> 00:54:08.360
guys will go backtrack and buy those Vintitch cards. I96800:54:08.519 --> 00:54:11.679
wasn't around in the fifties and sixties, but I still96900:54:11.840 --> 00:54:14.840
own those eras of football cards because I went back97000:54:14.920 --> 00:54:17.800
and bought them as a football card. So that's yeah,97100:54:17.920 --> 00:54:22.039
the strike would be really bad across many levels for97200:54:22.159 --> 00:54:26.719
the sport itself. It sting would help. It would help97300:54:26.800 --> 00:54:30.440
the football card market, Like to what degree that would97400:54:30.519 --> 00:54:33.599
have to remain to be seen, but no doubt it would.97500:54:33.679 --> 00:54:36.039
But just in the simple fact that it would hurt97600:54:36.079 --> 00:54:39.480
the baseball market, right, So it's like a scale. Anytime97700:54:39.559 --> 00:54:43.000
one side goes down, you know, gets more popular, the97800:54:43.079 --> 00:54:44.159
other one's gonna get lighter.97900:54:44.280 --> 00:54:47.840
So you know, I guess it's to what degree? How fast?98000:54:48.119 --> 00:54:49.840
Hey Chell?98100:54:50.519 --> 00:54:51.519
Chell? Chell?98200:54:52.000 --> 00:54:54.800
All right, thanks everybody. We'll see I don't know when,98300:54:54.920 --> 00:54:57.880
but we'll be back for episode two at some point98400:54:58.039 --> 00:55:00.320
in the near future. Take care, see
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