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Sports Nation what is up everybody Welcome to episode
323 of sports card Nation excited to talk to my guest on today's show he's
the director of the latest hobby movie but I say it's the greatest hobby movie
that we have gotten thus far the name of the movie is Hobby hustle if you're listening to this on Show release date
uh Friday it is coming out Sunday the 16th in some limited form and then we'll
be widely released uh later on I was privileged to be able to screen the
movie and uh really well done and uh happy to have Mr Michael Dal the
director of that film on today and next week and we're going to talk about some
of the stuff we saw in the mo I saw in the movie uh why he did certain things
the process some of the difficulties we're going to talk about obviously the hobby uh one thing I love about the film
it really covers all aspects he didn't leave too many stones unturned if any at
all and really covered you know as they say the good the bad uh and the ugly and
really you know did did his homework did his due diligent and he's a collector in
the hobby as well and I think there's something to be said said about that when someone involved in a hobby does
something in a hobby they they have their finger on their pulse right we've seen people try to come from outside the
Hobby and do some hobby stuff and not to say it 100% but generally doesn't work
out uh the way it it's planned all the time so uh well done movie if you get a
chance uh check it out it's called hobby Hustle but we're going to talk about it uh today so we're going to take a quick
quick break and we'll be back with Mr Michael do hobby hotline is the Hobby's
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at Hobby [Music] hotline hey everybody want to take a
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[Applause] well really excited to talk to my next
guest on the sports card shop guest line he's the director of a new hobby movie
uh coming out very soon called hobby hustle uh it's none other than director
Michael do welcome hey thanks John for having me so uh I was uh privileged you
let me kind of screen the film sort of ahead of time I uh first off thank you um I'm you know like I told you even
before we started recording M I'm not a lip service guy like yeah you know and I'm sure you probably wouldn't even want
that and you want like U honest honest feedback right this movie well done well
done it's it's not the first hobby movie uh but uh not that there's a ton of them
but it's but I I I I think it's the the best one that I've seen uh at this point
and uh you know one of the things I I loved and I know I did tell you this before we went live here you really you
know the hobby I've been in this thing 40 years and what it was even five years ago but 10 20 years ago it's it's vastly
different Hobby it's changing literally as we speak and you did I think you did the best job of really kind of covering
as much ground of it uh like I said too you know The Good the Bad and the Ugly
wasn't like all bad it wasn't all good yeah it was really you really tackled it
realistically it wasn't you know I don't know if the right word like an if you weren't trying to necessarily sell
anything you were just giving a real perspective of of what's going on
uh in the Hobby and things that you know the good uh the very good and and some
of the stuff you you got to be careful of it in the ugly part of the Hobby and that part you know whether we like it or
not as you all know it's real and uh I
like that you didn't sort of sweep it under the rug and kind of go around it you sort of tackled some of that stuff
um and and you did it it was just well done I I guess I'll start off with this
my go where did this movie come from like what when did you you know the the
light bulb go on and you said hey I'm doing this yeah I mean it kind of
started a long time ago you know the actual planning and shooting process started in 2019 at that time and before
that I was looking for another project to do like film related or series related something something I could sink
my teeth into because a few you just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday how can you find
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before that we my company we shot a pilot that we were trying to shop around and it was kind of this postapocalyptic
pilot it was it was it was called land of the Outlaws and it was kind of like a western post-apocalyptic Western
needless to say never got picked up nobody you know bed an eyelash at it so
I kind of sat down and I started writing a lot of books because I I well I wrote two books I wrote two novels and those
novels did pretty good actually to make some money off I made some money off of them and I thought I kind of want to dip
this back into some kind of a Film Production so I always was a big collector and and I thought man I I kind
of want to do a love letter to the collecting hobby I I I just really want to do maybe like a love letter so I
started doing my research I started putting together kind of laying out how I wanted it to go and initially one of
the first stories I came across I was reading this Sports Illustrated article by Luke win and it was about operation
stolen base with Cliff panzic who becomes a central figure in my documentary and from kind of just took
off and my at first my I I wanted this love letter this happy go-lucky documentary but then the more I started
thinking about it I thought well no if I'm gonna do this right I have to have
to show all sides of the Hobby and I've gotten burned before um not a lot but
I've gotten burned before with you know autographs if they're real or not I talked to a guy um that's in the state I
live in in Michigan I won't say his name because he he's embarrassed of what happened but he had a hockey collection
over 200,000 worth and you know I remember him talking to me that he was just crushed to find out when he tried
to get out authenticated that most of it was fake so that really kind of stuck
struck home for me and I said okay I want to take this documentary and show the good in the bad of it and that's kind of where it took off from from 2019
on yeah and like I said you really you didn't leave a lot of stones unturned
you you really uh you know in watching the film I was like it it just flowed
right to me and you really covered a lot of ground now it is a little long in
length but for me you know but but here's what I'll say about that when
you're interested in a movie and it captures your attention you're not looking at the time you just realize it
after after the fact so there there's the compliment uh in there speaking of
the L Did you sort of know that that was kind of where you were going to be at or it just H just that's where you needed
to be at to to include everything you wanted to include yeah I
mean to be honest I mean I shot I I was always worried I wasn't going to have
enough footage I always thought because I kind of wanted this to be an hour and a half documentary and I always thought
I wasn't going to have enough footage there's actually a lot of footage we we cut out a lot of footage and there was
other stories involved and I I was like man I kind of wanted to pitch this as a
series but when I was pitching it as a series nobody wanted it as a series they were looking more like oh I think this
would be better as just a standalone film and I wasn't going to screw around with okay well I'm really going to try
to pitch it as a series and get funding and I I just couldn't do that so I knew
I had to make this documentary myself off my own money but I knew it had to be just a movie because a series is really
hard to get distribution so I just went into it thinking okay I'm going to make this as short as I possibly can and then
obviously it came out to two and a half hours or um but that's with some serious cutting I mean we cut some massive
stories so going into it yeah I kind of wanted just an hour and a half but it became a lot more well with with some of
the footage that that didn't make it in into the film yeah you know I'll put you on I'll put you on the spot you know
might we see a part two or another or another film all together I kind of I
want to do something with the footage because there's some there's some good footage we were covering uh we were
covering a guy a gentleman who was in Wisconsin he was a collector and he
amassed this whole this huge collection he had a warehouse full of cards and he ended up passing away while we were
filming we didn't get enough footage of him to really do anything and so but we have some footage of him and then we we
have some other footage of a few other stories that were really really good um
and we were after this is done I I still I don't want to wa I'm not a big fan of wasting footage so I kind of want to
prepack package it and maybe make it as a part two or make it uh I just don't know the release aspects of that I don't
know if I would have it released on my website or YouTube or if somebody would
want to pick it up so honestly John it's still just kind of in the air but I definitely want to do something with the
with the footage that we cut out yeah I hope you do because you know if it's anything uh like this film I'm sure I
will enjoy that uh uh as well you know you you wanted to I I appreciate it too
you you know you I'm a history guy I'm a teaching assistant by by day uh and and
that's sort of my my field of expertise is is history uh but being in the hobby
myself for 40 years uh which makes me I am old but it definitely hits home when
I say that um I I love you know we're here today right but we're we're here
today for a reason because of things that happened uh prior everything kind of connects and is the bridge to to
where we are now yeah and you know people been in the hobby or you know and
know hobby history know the important um of Jefferson verdict and yes he's very
underrated like very few people uh talk about him you know about him quite quite
frankly and you know obviously when when I screened the film I I had no idea that you were going to cover him or
incorporate him uh in the film and you did and you did a a great job with it
and and uh so you know kudos for for someone that's really instrumental in in
what we have now and and cataloging and identifying some of these sets and and
releases when they you know today they're they're they're all branded but back in the day as you well know they
really weren't he kind of cataloged all that and then had his uh he he's uh I'm
in Syracuse now I'm originally from New York City and he he literally worked at
at a factory about uh five blocks up uh on you just realized your business
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you need my street up up the road went to Syracuse University um but was born
in Central Square which is a town a little north of Syracuse uh about 20
minutes from here I'm in that area for different things quite often and and I I
I won't make this about I'll make this story as short as I can I kind of assume because he went to to New York City with
W with his mat and actually worked uh you know in the back room at the Met uh doing the cataloging and whatnot I
assume he had been buried in New York City a few years you know when I was thinking
about it and then I did some research and realized no they you know he was intered at in this uh Cemetery that I'm
very familiar with in Central Square it's Hometown and I'm like holy smokes I'm you know I just went to sort of pay
my respects one hobbyist in a sense to to another so you know I found out where
his his plot was and and went and uh was really disappointed to see this
headstone no one had it's been it had Li chin growing on it algae it was hard to
read and I didn't have anything with me at the Time Michael and and so I couldn't do nothing you know I tried to
just by even by hand seat but I wasn't do you know making a debt and I went
home and it was just I know it sounds kind of corny but it was like the voice and Field of Dreams you know oh hell
yeah yeah yeah you know and and and it was just something was telling me like you got to go back and and clean that
headstone John no one's doing it uh should be bet you know for who the
person was and his contribute like he deserves where his it should be cleaned up and I told my wife I said you you're
GNA think this is nuts like I this guy died before I was born I know of him
because of the hobby but you know and I told her what I was thinking of doing
I'm like I'm thinking about going back up there and she goes no that's a really nice thing to do you know and and you
know I thought she was gonna say something like what are you you know she was like no that's cool
but you know what do you use and I'm like well that's my next step so I again I'll make this story short as iy YouTube
how to you know how to clean a headstone what to use what not to use I didn't you know I didn't want to be the guy that
uses the wrong product and then I like scar you know so I found out the what to
mix and and and I did de I went up the next day I'm like I got to do this while
I'm thinking about it and uh I did and and I took a couple pictures and I
posted them on social media and like the story kind of just went a little bit viral and sports collectors daily uh you
know picked it up and uh uh I've had them on the show and he said hey Jack can I can I use your photo that you and
I'm like Yeah by and I just told him I said listen make while I did that I want the story to be more about Jefferson B I
think people need to know who this man was and they did a great job with it and then it just I wrote a piece for sports
collectors I just and went from there and I've sort of just become I guess the defect he he never married he never had
kids no most of the berdick family um is gone or doesn't have really a major
connection to them while they might be released so I've sort of become like the de facto I guess caretaker at least of
the headstone and so yeah whenever I'm up there you know it's been a month or two I always will will stop by you know
say pay my respects and then just check on on the condition right now it's still still looking good so you know for
someone who met so much to the Hobby and and sometimes he's not mentioned enough and he did that in the film and I
remember like wow this is like right it was pretty early on in in the film too
and I just thought you know this is a a great way to kind of like I was impressed early on that you you know you
had the the fortitude to to include him as part of this and what he did and that
sort of thing um yeah I'll let you kind of speak to that I I I just rambled on
there but go but go ahead no no I think that you know a lot of those guys I wanted to include more some of the stuff
we cut out we spoke about other collectors who kind of meant a lot to the Hobby and I wanted so much to put
that in there and if it was a series John it would uh I think it would have been really important to kind of dive in
further into the history I mean we we in the documentary that was cut out you know and the stuff that was cut out we
we covered Lionel Carter we covered Larry frit we covered Frank naggie Charlie conin you know and I had to make
some some big decisions of how I want I was like well there's three figures
Central figures in the hobby that kind of round out a good history from the
early days of collecting to where it got really popular to where it kind of became
multi-millions to billions and those three guys were Jefferson berdick Barry Helper and then obviously Cy Berger and
those are the three that I I stuck with when the history side of the do um of the documentary and I remember talking
to George uh ver and Brian brakus and they they kind of said hey if you're
going to do this documentary you got to start with some history and at first I kind of passed it off but I'm thinking
well no that's true you have to really you kind of have to open it up to the viewer because you're going to have
people who don't understand the history where you know the history of the Hobby and I I thought it was really important
to have some key Central figures in that and that's with Jefferson verdict starting with him yeah yeah and he's
called kind of The Godfather of the hobby or the grand you know and again uh
anyone listening or or who does watch the film and then says hey I I don't know this you know do your you know
learn more about them because we wouldn't really have the hobby today in the same vein without his contribution
and you and you you just mentioned a whole line of of icons of the hobby that
are all integral right to oh my God yeah to to where we are and and even with the
Barry Hopper and you know I'll I'll piggyback off what you said there too you know there was some kind you you did
a great job in the film just covering all the angles right you didn't make it like a Fluff piece like the hobby is the
greatest thing the hobby the greatest Hobby in my opinion it is but there's warts but there's warts there too and
you didn't shy away from that I think it just an honest assessment uh I think that was uh important you know um you
know we don't have to mention necessarily the names of the films did have you seen any of the previous hobby
films and and did you take things from that and said hey I want to do this
differently or I want to do more like that was good but we can do this better
or did you kind of come in pure there's no wrong answer obviously asking to be
honest I try to avoid some of the known ones just because I didn't want it one thing I do when I do research with
writing a book or if I'm GNA film something I try not to let too many outside influences affect the vision I
want I know that sounds kind of douchy um but no I I I no I get that I get that
you know and I and some big ones at the time of when I was filming this was king of collectibles I know that series on
Netflix with Ken golden I I don't know Ken golden I heard it's a pretty good documentary but I do know his
documentary it's very celebrity-led so I knew I wanted to stay away from having too many athletes too many I didn't want
all these celebrities and it would have just been I I don't want that those kind of oo and a I kind of want to be a
little bit more honest and more rugged um and then there's another one called behind the card I know Stephen thei is a
part of that Bugsy gel and I didn't I didn't want to watch watch it just because I just didn't want that
influence and then there was another one I did view years before I even started my documentary it was called Jack of all
trades it was about a guy yeah yeah it was a great great documentary and I just
I watched that but that was kind of the only real one I watched prior to and
that's that's a great film and there's a hobby aspect to it but really that film
is like about relationships more than even even the hobby like the hobby was
woven into it but that for that was a father and son type movie and family
type movie with with the cards being sort of the the common Bond you know so
yeah and this yeah go ahead it kind of gave kind of like an honest assessment of the junk wax era I think a lot and
because I grew up in the junk wax era and a lot of people a lot a lot of people thought later on that those cards
would be pretty pretty valuable and a lot of them weren't and seeing that guy
I forgot the guy's name who who led in the documentary who created the documentary but I know I remember there
was a scene where he takes his cards in to sell them at a show to a collector um
and the guy was basically giving him 10 bucks for him like he he there wasn't much he could do with it he thought he'd
get a lot more money and it's just it was kind of an eye opener not just on his father and son relationship which
that eventually led to but just the um the overvalue he thought the cards were
going to get him were it just wasn't there it was more Nostalgia he was valuing the Nostalgia and how much his
cards meant to him when he was younger compared to what the actual dollar value of them is at that time really
interesting yeah St Stone just just to give yep uh and I know him he's been on
the show and uh I joked with him I actually he's I'm like when's a part two
coming you know his his dad uh did pass away actually last year and uh so he's
like I don't know you know he didn't he didn't close the door but uh uh you know
this film of yours is more is definitely heavy hobby hobby obviously the name's
hobby hustle again you you covered really all aspects um you know how did
you what how did you line up like to get the people that do appear uh in the
movie like how was that process did you start with like a long list and then it
just got shorter you know how did it how did you go from point A to point B with with the the
people who were featured in the film yeah I um there was it was kind of like
I knew I needed my Talking Heads so when I approached the cliff panzic side of the story I knew I needed not only
Cliff's version of events but I also needed the other side the laws side so I knew I needed the the the attorney that
that was Prosecuting them I needed the I needed the the FBI agents the the
detective I knew I needed that aspect but I also needed Cliff's lawyer um so those Talking Heads were kind of easy
but the other ones you know the AJ dylans and then um when I got uh Tanya
Tanya Hampton and some of those and Luke Koy they were basically through contacts of contacts I mean I went I kind of went
a different ways of doing stuff I used my network of people to get certain people but on the other side it was as
simple as somebody like Tanya Hampton just Instagram me DM you know dming her and saying hey I'm doing this um or
emailing people and that was kind of my reach out with AJ Dylan I I kind of I
knew his manager um not personally but it was like so I knew from my manager through his manager and I knew AJ Dylan
was a collector and I thought okay let's let's talk to him um so that so reaching out to his manager who is one of AJ
Dylan's best friends it was just easy to make that happen but everybody it was just mostly it was different ways man it
was just reaching out on social media reaching out via email cold calling and
just pitching I mean I've always been really good at pitching stuff um surprisingly I'm not a Salesman but I've
always been really good at pitching stuff so I can put things in a light and get them excited like my you know it's
contagious my excitement the project got them excited so and it wasn't fluff I mean it wasn't it wasn't a lie when
bringing into the project is exactly what would hope it would be I mean somebody like Brian brakus who's an X
FBI agent now he works for Fanatics and he he was kind of hard to get to but
because he's been in other documentaries but he uh I told him I said listen I don't want because I it was really hard
with him because he couldn't talk about past certain cases he could talk about but there were certain ones that were
still being prosecuted still being investigated that he couldn't talk about and I said listen man I mostly want you
just as a talking head because he's like you he loves history um he he loves the history of the hobby
he's a big fan of it so sitting down with him and talking with him it just opened up another world for us and um so
once we found that common ground with him and it was easy so yeah that's kind of how I reached out to people it's everybody was different you know yeah
yeah time for a quick break but we'll be right back you just realized your
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sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than
non-sponsored jobs don't wait any longer speed up your hiring right now with
indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get
your jobs more visibility at indeed.com kids andfamily just go to indeed.com
kids andfamily right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast terms and conditions apply
hiring indeed is all you need hi I'm Isaac Albert a longtime Card
Collector and the co-founder of the penny severer my wife and I started the penny severer with with a simple premise
in mind to offer collectors top quality supplies at fair prices we offer a full
range of hobby supplies and we'll get them to you fast whether you're looking for a 260 Point magnetic for that
oversized patch card or a slew of semi- rigids for your next PSA submission the
penny severer has you covered shop now at the penn.com and use the promo code
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penny.com the penny sleever top quality supplies fair
prices thanks for sticking with us let's return to the
[Music] show you don't have to necessarily
mention names I I'll leave that did you have anyone that gave you kind of either a flat out no or sort of a
lot a lot John I got ghosted a lot um Phil Hughes you know Phil Hughes are
you're from New York right so are you a Yankee yeah no I was when I was a kid and then I switched over to the Met
Stein Brer Stein Brer kind of Ru things for me especially when he got a little crazy with the cheese whz as as I
jokingly say and so I I switched to the Mets around 84 84 is and stuff but uh I
mean I have yank like I was a huge th mson durman mson I said on this that was
the F that's where I that's how I learned uh what death was Michael was again I'll make this story real short
you know the news broke in breaking news Thurman monson's plane crash um I'm six
or seven at the time and I didn't need I had no one in my family had passed away had been to awake and so you know they
just said he's dead and I this will tell you how naive I was at the time you know I asked my grandfather you know was
raised by my grandparents I'm like does that mean Thurman's not going to play for the Yankees anymore like that's
wasn't the question I asked and that's where he had to sit me down and like hey
here's how life works and and I cried it's the first time I cried over a death
and it was a person he wasn't a relative I had never met him personally I I was
at Yankee Stadium to watch him but I I never met him and here I am as a little
kid crying and learning kind of what death was so Thurman Monson later on
died madly um but as far as team wise I wound up converting to a Mets fan uh
about 84 which is good right before the World Series yeah I always make sure to let
people know was before 86 like just not a bandwagon Rider and 84 wasn't really a great year
so it wasn't like you know uh they really kind of came on in 85 and obvious
uh 86 you know um the other aspect too with the movie that you did a great job
Michael and it's something that's important to me you you kind of highlighted kids uh in the hobby women
in the hobby well you know we're seeing I think uh more of both um and it's
refreshing to see you know especially on the women's side we're seeing not just
women collectors we're seeing women behind the table as dealers as as a dealer myself I'm seeing a lot more and
that's that's great and we're seeing them in in you know corporate positions as well
uh in the Hobby and uh I obviously support that and as you should and but
you did you know with this film again you you checked off so many boxes and those were two more right you know you
start off with the history uh was that something did it organically happen or
was that something you like I I I want to do yeah it I don't know it I had most
of the film done and I was whining to the end of where I you know was shooting everything and I
thought something's missing from this and it was clear it was I think it was
was it a buddy that mentioned something he goes wow there's not a lot of not a lot of women collectors huh and I think
that just woke me up whoa you're right there's not a lot of women collectors that in this hobby at all or in this um
in this documentary and I said we need a a woman's perspective for sure and it
was I mean like I said I had like 90% I was pretty well almost done with with filming it and I had to basically drop
everything drop any future plans and start going out and trying to find um
the aw woman who's deep into the hobby but I didn't want to get somebody that I mean this might sound bad but I don't
want somebody that's like oh I collect WNBA cards because that's just so it's like yeah of course you I get it I
wanted somebody that had a different perspective of the collecting hobby but that was something different that we
don't hear a lot about and I came across Tanya Hampton and it was awesome I mean
she's a big F1 collector she collects not only memorabilia but she attends
races she she travels for it she collects cards of course and she's a
dentist by by by day but a collector on her off time and she was fascinating I
mean she lives in Virginia Beach and she's absolutely fascinating and I thought I don't know anything about F1
it would great it'd be great to learn something about F1 and she did that it was she did the documentary I thought
and I want to get other women in there as well but it I just didn't want it I don't know I didn't want it to appear
forced you know so that's why I thought she was a great a great um I don't know
a great Ambassador for the documentary to kind of um kind of lead the women
aspect of it because she does talk about other women collectors too you know Lauren Taylor and some of them so I
thought was really important as well so yeah no it was well done I'm not an F1 guy either
but she was really like you know her enthusiasm I'm
I'm again I'm not a fan of F1 I don't know a ton about it yeah but the way her
passion shined through and and you shooting her probably was an element of that as well I was I was enthralled even
though I could couldn't tell you a lot about the sport or the or the hobby side of it like the way it was done you know
I didn't F I wouldn't have fast forward it anyway but but people who do fast for like if I would have done that I still
wouldn't have done it because you know how it was and what she was talking about how you know how she presented
herself and and how you laid it out there as part of the film and so and and
like you said she did a great job sort of paying homage to to women in the hobby that that she respected and so uh
I think it encompassed uh all that and I think it's a great point you make too if you sort of overdo it if you will yep it
does it looks more like oh it's just you're patronizing them for the you know
so I I I hearing you say that that makes a lot of sense and if and if you notice
JN Tua in that documentary and this isn't like a spoiler but I didn't want her only talking about women in the
hobby you know what I mean because I think it's while there's not as many women in the hobby there are still women
in the Hobby and I know and she didn't tell us ahead of time like listen I don't want to talk about this I just I
wanted to touch on it when we were interviewing her and let it kind of organically go off and see what she says
and she said a lot but she was more wanted to talk about F1 and her passion and I wanted to I wanted that to come
through more when doing this because I just I wanted her to know and then women
to know like it's not like oh my God look at a woman in the hobby everybody look I didn't want that I want more
small I wanted her perspective but I wanted her passion just because we're showing other people how passionate they
are about what they're collecting and I wanted her to have that chance as well in this yeah no doubt I I think that
that segment was was excellent you know if you would have told me like hey there's gonna be an F1 segment I'd have
been like uh you know and watching it in real time like it was you know what I
thought would be dull to me and it's no offensive F1 it's just not my Lane yeah like I was still captivated I was still
interested and again I think that's probably a test uh to your film and your your efforts
and and and and Tanya as well as being a a passionate uh you know what she loves
and and and I learned like you said I learned stuff after watching the movie I know uh I don't want to say a lot more
but uh you know a lot more comparably to what I did before uh watching uh the
film you know you you mentioned them already oh go ahead go ahead I mean it kind of dates itself too uh in the term
of certain things we talk about in the film like we talk about Co so you could tell when I probably started this
documentary and then she talks about how much Lewis Black changing his uniform to
Black and deing and stuff and um you know through the um the BLM movement so
you could kind of tell like oh this must have been she must have been covered during that time when that when covid
and that was going on so um yeah I mean you could definitely tell when watching it it's like oh you could tell you know
you if you look close enough that oh he probably started filming this you know a few three four years ago yeah yeah and
but that's I mean the co the co period while a bad time for uh you know the
world obviously hobby wise it was it's really a weird dynamic because I C the
co Crescendo the hobby exploded during that time and you know as a dealer uh
and a collector you know there was good and bad there's both sides of the coin there and even as a dealer like just you
know stuff was selling left and right I almost felt you know I wrote an article about I almost felt a little guilty this
is a bad time in the world and yet on the financial side of the hobby it's not
it's it's weird it's a weird dynamic like I didn't do nothing wrong no one
else did either you know if you were doing everything above board but it was just it was just a weird time period it
was just you know it was like the perfect storm right you had people home with with 10 tabs open on their
computer uh The Nostalgia bug bit a lot of people with downtime and they're like
hey I remember collecting cards this is still a thing I'm coming back and so all
the ingredients were there and so well other business like a restaurants and movie theaters were in trouble because
they they couldn't open their doors the hobby really took and they didn't the hobby didn't do nothing wrong it just
was the perfect storm that all the ingredients were there for sort of that
rise and then an influx of people whether someone completely knew that
says hey what is this all this noise about or people who were in it that had left and said hey I remember this and
now I have kids too but I I still want to do it again and come back and it was just you know all the ingredients were
there so you know the fact that the co too was was a part of the film I think that's important too because as we all
know it's an important you know it's an important time while it's not a great uh
you know in the overall Co is bad for the hobby it really you know was
actually a positive yeah not that you wanted to happen that way but that it is what it is right yeah absolutely is the
way it happened yeah yeah and I mean a lot of more people from that entered the Hobby and we're seeing the effects of it
now I mean the Hobby's bigger than it's ever been and something good had to have come from it you know because it was
just we needed to get our minds off of what was going on in the world and I thought not only showing that in the
documentary but I mean just being at home myself I I spent a lot on cards and
things you know so yeah I I think a lot of if you want to say good I happened from it it was uh a deterrent getting
our minds off the bad you know collecting help that for sure yeah no doubt you mentioned kind of uh you know
you're collector yourself we'll come back to the movie but you know what what do you focus on as a collector what do
your PC what what things kind of move your metor uh have you yeah I've been
well I'm a huge I collect a lot of different stuff like in the um in the Sports World well in the non-sports
world I like those old books the the old uh choose your own Advent you just realized your business needed to hire
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hiring indeed is all you need your books I loved them when I was a kid I thought
man so I collect a lot of those but as Sports side of things I collect all the time I mean it's but my big thing is I
love mooki bets cards and I love Nolan arado and I'm a Detroit Tigers fan which
is weird so yeah I don't know why I just gravitate towards those two players but
I just I really like those players that's two of my favorite players so I started collecting I you during covid
started collecting those cards and anyone that hits the market I'm I'm constantly going out to get it so those
are the big ones I uh I try to S you know I'm highly sought after mukie bets guards and Nolan Aon a card randomly
yeah no doubt you you listen you could have picked two two worse guys mookie Batson MVP Nolan aado I think he's one
of those underrated third basem that doesn't get enough uhh credit look at the numbers right so uh you know being a
collector and being someone part of the hobby yeah you know how much do you think that aided making this film
comparatively speaking let's say someone from the outside that would take on a
project like that did did that would you say that gave you sort of a a home field or built-in Advantage oh yeah defin
itely John definitely just because we've seen people in other documentaries probably they they tackle they tackle a
subject it could be anything um and you could tell they're kind of an outsider on the subject there's not that thing
that connects you right I mean as you're watching you feel a little there's documentaries out there that you feel
disconnected from just because the Creator you could tell isn't isn't uh they're new to whatever they're talking
about which is fine um yeah but it misses that heart and one thing with collecting right away the Nostalgia we
think of our past right we think of we think of you know as as me I think of my
dad I think of how I got in introduced to the Hobby and I I knew that was going
to be an advantage getting into this because I the The Collector like you and
I the collector can look back and say oh yeah I totally know what he's talking about oh I can relate to that oh yeah
you know and that um I think that really does help um it definitely helped me
because it helped me carve out the story I wanted to tell and I wanted like not just feature baseball I'm a big baseball
fan but I also wanted to show other sports like football a little bit of hockey everything I could throw in there
I um without doing over the toop I I could and I knew um being a collector
definitely helped yeah that definitely set the set the Gateway for me to introduce all of it and tell the stories
yeah yeah and I agree uh and like you said not that you know even even in
positions of power in the hobby where a company will hire a CEO from outside the
hobby yeah I'm not saying 100% but a high percentage of that time that
company will fail I don't want to say fail but will take a step back or fail
and that CEO doesn't typically unfortunately last long or and survive
uh so I think I think having that perspective uh you know even in you know
not comparing the CEO NE I mean you're the CEO of this movie in the sense right and I think I think having that that
hobby background and and knowledge I think that's that goes a long way because it's going to be true and you
know nothing's going to really catch you off guard you might learn some stuff but you you know nothing's going to really
catch you uh completely off guard that being said I I'll I'll ask you that uh
did anything surprise you like as much as you knew about the hobby going in uh
in in the the the filming of this and production of this did anything make you say wow I you know I knew that but maybe
not to that extent yeah there were there were a few stories um yeah some some
inside baseball here I really tried to get PSA and JSA involved in the documentary and early on they were all
about it you know and this is when Joe Orlando was running PSA and I but they wanted they wanted to tell the history
of PSA which I wanted to do I wanted to do everything but when I questioned when
I questioned their their uh the way they grade when I wanted a little bit more insight I had some questions that they
weren't big fans of when I had um when I when I wanted to show the other side of the hobby they were completely out
they're like nope we're tapping out we're not going to talk to you anymore but I wanted to show both sides of the story I didn't think going in that
people would be so dismissive of showing both sides of the story I thought you
know everybody I you know we try to come at it from like an honest perspective and I'm a former journalist so I wanted
to come at it from like yeah we're going to tell this side of the story but we're also going to tell the other side so not
only the viewer can gauge like what their thoughts are on it but we also come across as genuine and I going into
this I thought even on Cliff's side I mean Cliff thought we were just going to talk about his side when I told him the
entire time like I want to get both sides of the story like I have your side but we have to get the legal side of it
too we got to get the law enforcement side of it he had big problems with that and I think going into this to answer
your question overall I thought people would be more receptive to hearing both sides of the hobby but there's so many
people not everybody but there are a lot of people that I came across that were really really adamant on not telling the
bad side of things they just wanted everything to be about what they wanted to talk about and didn't want to talk
about anything else you know that contradicted that or that um that battled their that thought process so
that was of a bummer you know in some in those aspects yeah and I agree but I think the people who watch the film and
the hobbyists and collectors who watch the film or even people who watch the film that maybe not be part of the hobby
yeah I think will appreciate the fact I know I do it's it's one of the first things uh you know when I was writing
you know some notes down as a is I you know I just said kudos to you know
covering both sides right both sides of that coin that coins are double-sided you know there's a good side side and
and there's a band side you didn't shy away from that like I said he didn't make it all fluff like hey everything is
orchestra music and roses and daisies and and because people know people who
are in The Hobby know that that's not an accurate assessment so you know the fact
that you covered some of the the black ey stuff that we have in the hobby it's
just a truer a truer depiction of what the hobby is it's still the the you know
there for every bad story there's 10 great ones but there is that bad story there is and you know some of the powers
that be like you mentioned probably don't want to be the ones to mention it they sort they know it exists but it's
sort of you know taboo for them to to to go there and well I get it I it would
have been refreshing to say to see a PSA or a JSA say listen yes you know um you
know JSA has said like uh this is their quote like 85% of the Michael Jordan
autographs that are submitted to them for uh you know authentication fail yeah
so doubt yeah so that when when when an autograph fails for the majority of them
because someone faked it now there's some that maybe they just can't authenticate it either way it's too
close to call or they're not 100 sure and then but in the majority of those cases they're saying Michael Jordan
didn't sign that in example and that's just you know that that's real that's why they have a
business if every autograph was real J we wouldn't need a JSA or a PSA or all
those authentication services so I don't see why we we can't talk about it I
think they've they've touched on it in some some stats they released like it's it is what it is right and and they're
regarded as you know the two of the top uh companies in their their field like
they should be able to say hey this is why this is why we exist this is why we care this is why we do our research and
learn and and you know stay ahead or or try to stay one one chess move ahead of
of people doing unscrupulous things and yeah you know I don't think there's anything wrong with that but I guess you
know it's just not they they they they don't really want to go there like yeah they they they don't really want to go
there because they don't want their tactics being question question like one of the big one I had for JSA was they
had a LeBron James autograph that they used to authenticate other LeBron James autographs it was well known I saw the
autograph and as you seen in the documentary that was Cliff's autograph not LeBron James they don't want to talk about it and I get it I mean nobody
wants to talk about the stuff that do isn't like you said like like a black eyy to their company to the Hobby I get
it man I totally do but at the same time if you're open and honest about it I think uh people are a little more
receptive to it and it was just hard I mean like they you were mentioned Michael Jordan I mean yeah a lot of
people who submit of course that's going to be fake you know a lot of those autographs are going to be fake because Michael Jordan doesn't sign a lot yeah I
mean he doesn't sign a lot um Aaron Rogers doesn't sign a lot a lot of there's a lot of athletes who don't sign a lot so it's easy for JSA and some of
these companies to be like oh yeah that's probably fake and I get that all right guys we're gonna we're going to
stop it right there we're not done though part two next week more great conversation go go check this movie out
hobby hustle I watched it it is the best hobby movie that we have had produced and I
don't mean any disrespect to any of the ones that I seen prior they're most of them were good in their own right stew
Stones uh jack of all trades which is really a more of a life movie than a
hobby movie this movie is is really more of a documentary based on what the hobby
entails good bad and ugly like we said so uh definitely check that film out uh
I don't think you'll be disappointed if you do check the film out uh let me know what you thought Am I Wrong am I right
uh let me know what you would uh do differently and that sort of thing play armchair director if you will so uh
definitely uh looking forward to the conclusion of my conversation with uh
director Michael do uh next week hope you are as well time for all hobby is
the people announcer of the [Music]
week hello this is Mark Hy and remember the hobby is the people if you'd like to
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