Dec. 26, 2025
"PSA damaged my Kobe?" w/ "The Hobby Lawyer" Paul Lesko E368
"The Hobby Lawyer" Paul Lesko is back.
Today's Hobby Court Case:
"PSA damaged my Kobe Bryant Refractor"
Paul joins us to discuss some interesting hobby related court cases.
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WEBVTT
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Sports Guard Nations, Hobbies, the People, Wheely News and Interviews.
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It's your number one song. Sportscarnation. Hobby is the people
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sports Guarnation?
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What is up? Everybody? Welcome to episode three sixty eight
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Sports Cardination. We have Paul Lasco, Part two of four.
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If you didn't catch last week's show about a grading
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card company losing an ONUS Wagner card, go catch that today.
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How about PSA damaged my card? If you're integrating, it's
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probably not you've probably heard that before, hopefully it's never
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happened to you. But today's show, I was going to
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talk about a legal case involving a damaged Kobe Bryant card.
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Any value loss based on the damaged and the plaintiff
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is a legend at PSA damaged a refractor card of
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Kobe from the condition he sent it in, and he
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wants to be compensated. And this case would be precedenting
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setting if the plaintiff winds. Because I think we've all
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heard at least once somebody claim that their card was damaged.
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I don't want to just pick on PSA, but by
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a grading card company. Heck, I'll be honest with you,
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I do the bolk shopping for SGC, and I've had
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not someone definitely saying, but just sort of questioning, like
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I didn't notice that when I sent it in, although
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I send in the cards that they they give me.
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And after that, you know, we're at the mercy of
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the grading card companies doing the right thing. So very
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interesting case on today's program, and I think you'll enjoy it.
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As always, wanted to thank my sponsors, Iron Sports Card,
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rober Lent. They doing a great job there. Sports Collectors Digest,
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the longest hobby publication and I get the right for
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them Hobby Hotline, our Saturday Morning Conglomerate show and Upper Deck.
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So thank those guys. And with that being said, let's
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get this show. And Paul asked Paul LESCo back on
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for part two. All right, here is part two of
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our conversation with Paul Lesko, and we're gonna be talking
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about a court case where PSA allegedly has damaged a
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Kobe Bryant car. So here we go, PSA, you know,
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damaging a card somewhere in the degrading process in their
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possession of the car. And I've heard people without even
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going to litigation, I'm sure you have to see people
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go on social media and say, look what PSA did
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to my card, or that's not the condition I sent
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it to him in and here is how I got
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it back. You know. Talk. But when it comes to
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a court case, let's let's tackle it.
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Yeah.
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And I think that's you know, the cases that interest
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me the most. Like while we can't relate to you know,
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Beckett losing our T two o six on his Wagner,
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we have heard about it. We've heard about people, you know,
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I sent it a card, they sent it out on
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un FedEx. It never arrived. You know, we've all heard
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stories like that. So, Adam minimum, you can relate to
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it at a basic level.
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But this one I think people can relate to more so.
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And this is a case that has been going on
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for four or five years. So it has to do
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with a nineteen ninety six Kobe Bryant chrome Rookie refractor
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from from Tops and the card was sent in by
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the plaintiff to PSA.
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And and when the.
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Card came back, I think it came back as if
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there was a what he called like a dent or
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a divot in the card. And he's had pictures from
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beforehand he submitted. You know, he's got pictures from right
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when he handed him in, he's got pictures from afterwards,
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and you can see there's something going on with the card.
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There's something that was there that wasn't there beforehand. So
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his allegation, he's alleging that, hey, this card should have
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been a ten and you know, maybe nine, but it
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probably should have been a ten because you've damaged a
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card you slabbed it as an eight, that I've lost
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significant value, and especially when you're looking at a case
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from four years ago, five years ago, twenty twenty.
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Was the boom time. It was a boom time for card.
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So there are you know, I think I don't remember
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the exact value he's looking for, but it was, you know,
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several hundred thousand dollars. He believes he has been damaged
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from the card going from a ten to an eight.
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So this case has been going on for ever, and
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finally we had a trial in the end of November.
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Early no, it was the beginning of the beginning of November.
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We actually had a trial in this but the trial
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was in a state court and the docket does not
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update very well, so.
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We don't know what happened. We don't know the result.
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We know that there were three days a trial. They
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were in the plaintiff rested after day three, and then
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it was time for the defense case. And we don't
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know if the defense put on a case. We don't
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know what happened, and it's it's really frustrating because this
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is one of those cases where, like we talked about
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what is the value of the card? Well, first of all,
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what is the obligation of a grading company if they
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damage the You know, that's what's important about this case.
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It'll help decide that. But the other thing is what's
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the value of the card? Are we valuing this card
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when he submitted it? Are we valuing the card today
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because it's had you know, that card's probably had a hundred,
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one hundred and eighty thousand dollars swing in value. Because
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the case is long, so it's it's a really interesting case.
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But it also had a funny side issue where the
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plaintiff never cracked the slab. And that's one of those
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things where if I have cases that involved trading cards,
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especially if it's against the grading company, I want the
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card in the slab, you know, I want to be
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able to show well to.
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Me not to cut you up. Puff he cracks it
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out of the slab, he kind of he doesn't have
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a case really well because he.
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If he cracks it.
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So the plan, so part of the defense that PSA
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said was, hey, it's not damage to the card. It's
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just some like dust or something that's stuck in there.
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So if you just crack it out, the dust will
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go away and you'll see your card is perfect now.
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So he included some close up shots and it really
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looks like it's the actual damage to the card because
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the chrome layer, it looks like the chrome layers rubbed
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off and you could actually see the cardboard. But he's
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his position was his lawyer's position was this defense that
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it's just something stuck in the case is ridiculous. So
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we never wanted to crack the card, but get ready
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for trial, and that's what a PSA is defensive. So
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the plaintiffs, well, you know what, if I want, I
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can crack the card on the stand and let the
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jury see what's going to happen here.
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So if you're going to put.
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Forward that defence, we're going to crack the card on
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the stand, to which PSA brought a motion saying no,
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you can't.
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You cannot crack.
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The card because if you were going to crack the card,
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you needed to do it while this case was running
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for four years, so that we could have experts in
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the room to make sure you're cracking the card correctly,
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and then afterwards we can have our experts look at it.
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You know, you can't just crack it on the stand
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because crazy things can happen. And that's one of the
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things I want to see what was going to happen
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in this because the judge was, look, he hadn't totally
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ruled on this yet, but it looked like he was
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more of a let's maintain the status. If you haven't
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cracked the card up till now, you probably shouldn't crack
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it during the case unless something weird happens.
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So now we don't know what the card was cracked
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or not.
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And that's something that I really want to see because
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it's funny where someone's willing to crack their card and
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the other side saying no, no, no, no, don't crack it
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out of the case.
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But so in this case, maybe so this case may
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be resolved, and you just don't know how it was resolved.
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It could be And that's what's frustrating because the last
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day that we have like a transcript, not transcript, but
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we have minute order for the court explaining what happened
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during trial is from November fifth, So we are over
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a month since the third day of trial and we've
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had no updates from the court on it.
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So we don't know.
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Somebody could have won. I mean, this case could be
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over and we just don't know. So it's somewhat frustrated.
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How do you find out or there's not necessarily a
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full proof way. Are like attorneys, Like if you knew
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the attorneys in the case, could you, as an attorney, say, hey,
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what happened with your case? How does that work? They are?
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They not allowed to speak until the result.
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They are And I am familiar with the lawyers at
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least on one side of this case, and I'm familiar
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with the experts that were utilizing these two. However, when
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it comes to how I cover cases, I only cover
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what on the dockets.
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I only cover what the parties have filed.
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Because when you're filing something with the court, you have
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to do it under for like federal court, you have
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to do it under what's called rule eleven, meaning you
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are basically swearing under penalty of perjury that everything you're
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saying is true. So because of that, I only go
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by what's on the court docket, because somebody is swearing
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that everything in there is true. Now, sure they may
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be pushing it a little bit, but that's what the
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other side is there to push back for. So I
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really don't like to talk to people outside of the
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cases and get their opinions on it.
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Now.
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I figure for this, you're right, I should probably just
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reach out to somebody and say, hey, is it over?
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Is it still going on?
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But I keep hoping that the court website will just
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update and tell them, because that's how I mean. We're
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in twenty twenty five. Federal courts right now are beautiful.
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They update daily. You can if you have access to
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the PACER system, you can see what's going on in
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any case federally, all across the United States, all fifty states,
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whenever you want. Problem is, this is in a state,
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and some state courts have very good dockets. Some state
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courts have abysmal dockets. Some state courts, like this one,
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have dockets where you have to pay money to actually
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see what's going on. So this is one of those
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dockets that I think it's a little bit backwards.
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It costs money, and you just really.
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Never know what's going on. Yeah, So that was a
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long way of saying, there's a way to figure it out.
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If it was in a better court, we would know,
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But it's in a court that's difficult to understand what's
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going on there.
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So I just don't know what's happened.
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Time to hear from one of our great sponsors, but
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Sports Guardination will be right back after that.
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Let's Go. You are listening to the Sports Card Nation podcast.
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Let me ask you this I again, and I could
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be like completely wrong here. I would think if the
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plaintiff won the case, we he'd probably go to the
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mountaintop and scream like I beat PSA. You know, don't
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let them like ruin your cards or you know, take
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and again maybe he did that and we haven't seen
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it or I haven't, you know, but the fact that
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neither one of us knowingly has seen something like that,
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can we can we kind of make the assumption at
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p s A one or or you really can't.
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You really can't because most cases settle with a confidentiality agreement.
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And so you know, if the case went to the jury,
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I think you're probably right.
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If the case went to the jury, or if the
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judge determined it however was going to be determined.
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I think whoever won would have been touting their win,
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you know, would have been said, hey, we won this case.
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We shut it down. You know.
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So maybe it hasn't been decided yet, maybe it's been
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put on hold, or maybe the parties settled it. And
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then that could be why the docket's not updating, because
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the judge is like moved on to other things. He's like,
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I don't need to update a docket for a case
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it's already resolved. It's just we just don't know. It's
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it's frustrated.
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And that's like PS. They settled with the plaintiff, right
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