WEBVTT
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Sports Guard Nations, Hobbies the People, Wheely News and Interviews.
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It's you on number one soul Sportscarnations hobby is the people, sports.
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Gar Nation, What is up?
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Everybody? Welcome the episode three ninety five of Sports Cardination.
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Done a little traveling recently went to Philadelphia to see
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my nephew who is a fighter fighter there, fire men there,
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easy for you to say, not for me. Went to
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a Phillies Mets game that was a fifteen to three
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blowout on the Phillies end, so Phillies fans were happy.
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Mets fans like me not so much. But saw Bryce
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Harper's first career cycle, saw Kyle Schwarber hit three home
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runs too were moonshots over my head and the third
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one was about five rolls in front of me in
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right and field. Had a great time with my nephew.
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We went to a FIFA World Cup FanFest which was
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like two blocks from his house, which was really cool.
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And I've gotten I've always I always watched the World
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Cup when it when it's on, but I think a
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little bit more with this year's edition. I don't know
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if it's because it's stateside and on North America, with
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the United States, Canada and Mexico hosting, but I've been
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watching more games. Obviously, the US has been successful so far,
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so that always helps as well. So h But I
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want to thank our sponsors as always, Iron Sports Cards,
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Sports Collectors, Digest, Hobby, Hotline, Upper Deck, Card Ladder, and CTCA.
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And for those that don't know who CTCA is, it's
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a Certified Trading Card Association. I'm a proud board member
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and what we're trying to do as an organization is
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make the hobby a safer place. So if you Google
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or you go to CTCA dot com, but your Google
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Certified Trade Card Association, you can become a member and
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see all the great things that we have in store
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for you to make the hobby a safer place. With
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that being said, i'd like to talk about our guest
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this week, make that two guests this week, father and son,
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Matthew and Garrett Weaver, and they've invented a baseball card
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game called the Baseball Card GM and it's like straight
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o matic, but I think it's better now. I know
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it's better because you use real baseball cards of your
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choice and it uses scenarios and player stats and on
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the pitching side and the hitting side, and so you
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can recreate series. You can play with older guys, so
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you can have a game with Ken Griffey Junior is
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batting after Luke Gerrick. The options are endless. And these
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this father and young young man came up with this game,
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and you know, through twenty versions till they got it right.
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And so we're gonna learn about this game.
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I do own it now.
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I'm going to put it to the test and my
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plan is to bring it to my school. I'm a
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teaching assistant as some of you know, and try to
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get the kids to play it. And it's great because
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it has statistics, deals with numbers, mathematics, scenarios. I think
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I think it'll be well received and IM gonna play
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it even here at home with my son. So check
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that game out. I'll put all the the pertinent info
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in the show note, so we'll have them on this
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episode and next episode. So with that being said, let's
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talk to Matt and Garrett. All right, real happy to
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be joined by the next two gentlemen on the Sports
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Cardination guest line. Father and son from the Philadelphia area,
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and they've created a baseball card board game. You know
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using baseball card. It's it's called the Baseball Card g
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General Manager Board Game. And I'm pleasing to welcome Matthew
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and Garrett Weaver.
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Hey, how are you good?
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All right, I'm gonna ask this to you Matthew Fir
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you know obviously being older like for you know with
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baseball cards are just sports cards or any you know,
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trading cards in general. You know, what, what's your first
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memory did you collect as a kid? What was it?
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I know you're in the Philly area.
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Was it was it Phillies cards or Philly teen just
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kind of your background where the hobby started.
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I mean, I'm I'm a kid of the junk wax era,
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you know, like a lot of people those those eighties,
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early eighties, mid eighties cards that were just everywhere, like
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it felt like at that time you any story went
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into there were rats just all the time. And my
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collecting started because I was really desert of a baseball fan,
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right I mean, and for me and in that time,
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the the stats on the back were the thing that
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I really sort of love, you know, and there's so
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much there, there's so much information on those cards. And
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when I was thank you, thank you, when I was collecting.
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That was sort of that was the thing that I
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really got, you know, and when and port over that
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and that's sort of almost when I got out of
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sort of the card collecting part of it, I was
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always still really into the stats and still continue to
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be and all the other things that people are doing
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when they're getting into the stats and baseball because it's
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such a it's such a statistical heavy fandom, you know
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that that is really where that game is what I love.
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Yeah, I think about it when we think of all
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the like, let's see even just narrow it down to
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the four major sports guys, right, Baseball of them, all
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I think is I mean, people who aren't even necessarily
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baseball fans can name certain things, you know, like the
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you know, Hank Aaron's home run totals or even Barry Bonds,
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or the fifty six game hitting streak of Damaggio or
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Ripkins iron Man number right, Omousie really died in the wool.
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Baseball fans can can rattle off a lot of that.
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But even even sort of casual fans know some of
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that stuff as well. So it always is a sort
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of a of all the sports, it's probably number one
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when it comes to stats in a game, a sport
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that really sort of honors those stats and has those
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that record book, right, I know every sport has it.
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But you know, if you tell someone who's the all
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time baseball hit leader, most even even a casual baseball
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fans gonna say Pete Rose. Right, If you ask someone
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the NFL rushing record holder, you might get three different
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running backs, right.
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Garrett, I see you got you go ahead.
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Japanese you no listen?
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I think when if you add to his Japanese league stats,
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I think you might be right.
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So you're technically not wrong.
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So uh and and he just got into uh the
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Hall of Fame, so uh, congrats to him.
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An incredible player.
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Just think, you know, when you take him, guys, think
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of like what he did, you know when he played
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a good portion of his career in Japan before he
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came uh state side. So this just tells you his
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durability and his his athleticism. Right for you, Garrett, let
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me ask you, you know, did you do you collect cards?
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As the game and we'll get into the game and
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more specifics. You know, do you collect cards, whether it
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be Pokemon or sports or not necessarily?
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Well, I usually I do collect basebook cards, but like
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a lot of my friends do, like Pokemon. So I've
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sort of seen some maybe not collect them myself, but
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like I see them and I understand them. They collect them.
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Yeah, you know what you tell you.
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And I'm only when I say this, just ask him
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how many home runs the Chargers?
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What Pokemon?
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It's not real life. It's not real life. Yeah, I get, and.
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I'm I'm not knocking, but like, uh, like you know,
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I do shows as a dealer still, and that's a
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huge part of the hobby, whether you collected or not yourself. Uh,
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it's really made a lot of shrides and it's it's
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right there with with sports cards, uh.
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You know, by the numbers and grading and all that stuff.
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So before we get into this game, I got to
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ask you, have you done any previous games or was
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this year first foray into designing the.
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Game number one one?
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Yeah, So what let's let's kind of start from like
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the ground level, like what when did the light bulb?
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What was it? And when did the light bulb go off?
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There?
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Like, hey, let's do let's do a game based with
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these cards. Him to have the cards be a part
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of the game.
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Well, I mean I was always even before I created
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the game, I was always making like just like lineups
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basically with my cards, just figuring out like every making
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sure you have every position and like where the bat where?
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And then yeah, so and then the idea came when
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this trashy old game.
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Yeah so I know, if you know a lot of
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people have something like this where it's you sort of
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roll dice and then you put little gasterwards around and it. Yeah,
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but all the you know, so you could sort of
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the concepts sort of the same, right, but it's terrible.
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But it's terrible because everyone has.
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The everyone's equal everyone, it's just what you roll.
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It has no there's no strategy.
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And part of what he said he was he was
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so he was always creating these lineups and these mythical
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and he couldn't get tested. You can't get well was
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I was it a good one? Was it a bad one?
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How do I play against someone else else?
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You know?
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And when we sort of had this game on the side,
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which he sort of was angered by because everything was
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the same, Well, why aren't we making the dice rolls
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relative to how good that person is at that stat
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It's just sort of mostly obvious idea in the world, right,
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It's sort of like, yeah, the people hit more home
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runs should be more likely to hit home runs.
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People.
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Basically in this game, you're saying that Tyrone Taylor and
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Pete a Lonzo or completely.
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Right, yeah, which we as we both know and as
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a MET fan, even though one of them is no
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longer a Met, we both know that's not that's not exactly.
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Yeah, so it it as I was sort of going on,
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and this was twenty twenty four, I guess, and Use
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seven at the time, said well, how do I just
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how can I just play with my cards?
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Like? What is nothing?
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And I started looking like any other person we do.
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I just start googling and I spent a long time
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a lot of different sites saying is there anything anything
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that exists? Or you just play with your actual baseball
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cards and you stat in the back This thing was like.
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This game where it just gave you the cards to
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play with, right, And that's like, yeah, exactly, you just
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had like cards that were given in the.
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Stratamatic right, stratamatic dratamatic.
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There was another game too, guys. I got it. I
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know I had it. Oh, I think it was called
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Talking Baseball or Starting line I think it was Starting
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line Up Baseball. And the cards were a little squared.
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They weren't like the full two and a half by
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thirty a half. They were like a little kind of
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the old gouty size. But again, they were the cards
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that came with the game, and you needed to have
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those to play, and you were limited, like you guys
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are saying, you were limited to only what cards were
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produced by the game manufacturer only, right, this the way
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you guys you know, have designed this. You're sort of
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opening it, which I love. Right, It really opens the
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platform up to anybody's cards, is it, you know, getting
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ahead of ourselves? Is there rules like you can't stack
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your life? Like can you like you, if you're, if you're,
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if I'm playing versus you, Garrett, Could I just bring
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all my best cards? Or is that sort of what
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it's designed to do? Where you bring your best and
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I bring my best and then we let the chips
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fall where they may.
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So I mean, yeah, but just best.
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Cards, like you know, like let's use the example, like
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I'm obviously not gonna bring nine Tyrone Taylor cards, right,
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but I could bring like nine, Uh, you know Juan
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Soto cards and again you I'm sure the rule means
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you have to have you know, you can't have nine
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of the same time. But what if I brought like
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the nine best players you know in in baseball, or
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arguably the nine best players?
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Is there?
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You have rules right where they have to play a
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certain position.
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You can't have ten, right, yeah, go ahead.
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They have to play the position that is their.
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Position on the card.
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So you couldn't play one Soto at second base.
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He doesn't.
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He doesn't never, right, so you had so the I mean,
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so there's a lot of ways that in some ways
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it's really there's because you're you, you can literally use
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and you should say and we're going to have the
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game sort of works. But basically any card from the
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nineteen eighties to today, you write because they all have
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to because we use universal stats that are on all
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baseball cards since the since the tops Fleer lawsuit in
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nineteen eighty one, right, all the same, all the stats
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that are on there, all the basic hitting stats. And
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you you can pick, uh, you pick the best year
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of stats you went on your card, so you could
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pick so you could have an older you know, you
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00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.240
pick a specific year or not, so you can create
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just superstar lineup. You can mix it, which is fun.
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I think it's fun. Is a fantasy is you can
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take your sho Hao Tani and you could play them
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00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:08.240
with Don Mattingly. You could play him with Jimmy Fox
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00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:10.960
if you have a recreation the Conlin set. I have
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00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:13.320
you heard of the Conlin the forty news set. So
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00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:16.320
you could have a Hank Greenberg and a Babe Ruth
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play with your Elie day La Cruz. You could do
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and all the stats are gonna work because they're all
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the same stats, you know. And in the home fifty
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home runs then with fifty home runs now. But and
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that is fun to do. But really, what we're finding
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the ways that we don't dictate how you play, but
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what a lot of people are playing. The two ways
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we found that people are brilliant is cracking packs and
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just playing with what you get.
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Yeah.
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I like that, and it's so much it's ransom and
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no one can say, hey, you stacked the deck, stack
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the deck.
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Yeah, you just get you get two fat packs, those
278
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fat packs with the forty forty.
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00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:58.320
Cars, every position cover you're gonna have.
280
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.440
Yeah, you're gonna and you get Look you they get
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00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.399
cal rally and you may not. You may get someone else,
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00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:06.960
but it was just ram plumping the draw and you
283
00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:09.519
crack it open. We get a lot of people. And
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what we do when we send the games to reviewers,
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00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:15.519
especially bour game reviewers, people who were collectors but maybe
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aren't necessarily today. We send them old junk wax era
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packs from the eighties and nineties.
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00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:21.320
You can get cheap.
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00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:23.879
You can go get a whole lot of them, and
290
00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:25.879
you crack them open and you just throw out the
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gum and you go, look, I got these these I
292
00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.399
remember these cards as a kid, and I'm open these.
293
00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:32.279
Pleasant first time. It's great.
294
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And it's great because it's great because it utilizes these
295
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.879
cards again where people are throwing them out or burning
296
00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:40.480
them and that sort of thing.
297
00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:42.399
So I love that.
298
00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.559
Right, So let me ask you this, because I haven't
299
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obviously played the game. If I have a card, let's
300
00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:51.679
let's use Albert Poolholes, right, And it's a late in
301
00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:54.960
his career card, so it maybe has ten or twelve
302
00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:57.679
seats listed on the back of that. Are you are
303
00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:01.480
you using a specific season or just the sort of
304
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:05.880
the the average, like how what determines what player like
305
00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:07.440
with the dice and all that.
306
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:08.880
You hit a little bit.
307
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:10.119
Are you talking about the year?
308
00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:13.039
I mean, yeah, you have to pick an individual year.
309
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.359
And for Alverapolos, I have him on a lot of
310
00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:18.079
my teams because he's good.
311
00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:18.920
He's very good.
312
00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:24.720
I usually twelve twenty twelve. It has home runs, he's
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00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:27.480
the home runs. He edges out for the home runs,
314
00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:31.440
the doubles in like hits.
315
00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:34.319
All right, so yeah, that's a good year, so we
316
00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:36.440
should play well. I guess we'll walk through sort of
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how the game works, and it's fundamental.
318
00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:43.160
Yeah, there's seven there's seven stack categories, right that you're
319
00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:46.559
gonna look that that that's on the play Matt, we'll
320
00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:49.000
look it's you got home.
321
00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:53.960
Runs, triples, doubles, nine average hits, walks and RBIs. I
322
00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:57.079
think that's also an average, right, And every time you
323
00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.119
roll two dice, so you get so you can have
324
00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:01.880
your card. Whatever is Andre Dawson. Right, you look it
325
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:04.559
over and you say, all right, I'm playing Andre Dawson.
326
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:08.079
I'm gonna use the year he was the MVP or
327
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.039
was yet forty eight home runs that year forty nine
328
00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:14.200
and you say eighty seven cups, roll the dice and
329
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:16.960
it's gonna fall in one of those seven columns of
330
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:21.240
categories RBIs doubles. Wherever that dice roll lamps and say
331
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:24.359
it's home runs, you're gonna look on it's gonna tell you.
332
00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.440
If he has over so many home runs, he gets
333
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.920
a home run, and if it's under that, it's gonna
334
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.720
be a fly ball, so people are fly or whatever.
335
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.599
So or if it's over so many walks, he's gonna
336
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:38.640
get a walk. If it's under that, it's a pop up.
337
00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.160
Or if he has so many hits, it's a strikeout,
338
00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:44.759
and if he or a ground out, and if not,
339
00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:47.720
it's so. What it's done is it's taking that whole
340
00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:50.720
number stat and saying like, if it's really high, you're
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00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:52.960
hitting that, and if it's really low, you're not. And
342
00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:57.400
it keeps progressing. So what's cool about it is if
343
00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:00.359
you think about a number of dice rolls, say of
344
00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:02.680
plate appearance, each dice rolls a plate appearance. You know,
345
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:05.200
so you're gonna do all nine innings and run through it.
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00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:08.440
So a guy who has six hundred and fifty, say
347
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:10.880
plate appearance is an ear right, Like, that's usually a
348
00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:14.160
pretty normal number for a card. If you roll the
349
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:18.359
dice six hundred and fifty times, you will get that
350
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.960
that outcome will happen as much as it actually happened
351
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:24.480
on the card. And that's sort of what cracked the
352
00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:26.960
secret sauce here, which is sort of what Strautumatic sort
353
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:29.599
of does, but they hide it behind their cards and
354
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:30.440
their roles.
355
00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:31.759
But we just sort of transmitted it.
356
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:35.559
So if you have over twenty home runs, but under
357
00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:38.759
say fifty, you are going to roll about twenty five
358
00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.599
home runs over six hundred and fifty rolls over a
359
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:44.839
season of plate appearance, if you hit over fifty one runs,
360
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:46.920
you have two chances to hit that home run, so
361
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:49.319
you actually will roll fifty or sixty home run, say,
362
00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:54.119
with walks and doubles and triples. So it actually it's
363
00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.480
not just using the numbers of the cars. It's actually
364
00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.240
replicating the numbers on the cars with the same probability.
365
00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.799
So you get very very real outcomes. You will get
366
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.359
games that are you know, five to six, eight to two,
367
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:10.319
whatever you know. And because we've said it to those
368
00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:12.880
whole numbers on the card, So when you pick a
369
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:14.640
year two.
370
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:16.799
Hundred and sixty one time, I mean six hundred and
371
00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:17.400
sixty one.
372
00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:19.960
Times, Yeah, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do it,
373
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.759
and you can. When you do it. That means that
374
00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:25.759
it matters what year you're picking too, right, because some
375
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:27.920
years guys are great and doubles, but they didn't hit
376
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:29.920
a home run. Some years their home runs not doubles.
377
00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.640
Some years it's average, but they didn't get the triples
378
00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:34.960
or they had not as many walks. So you're looking
379
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:37.000
through and you're building your lineup, going all right, well,
380
00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:39.400
this year, this year, I'm going to use him. I'm
381
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:41.680
going to use him this year because he's my doubles guy.
382
00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:43.640
I'm going to buy him second. I'm gonna get him on.
383
00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:47.079
But my my fifty home run year guy, I'm gonna
384
00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:49.039
put it four because I know he's gonna ease more
385
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:52.039
chances to know runs than someone else. So you're building
386
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:54.400
all the stats out that way, and that's when you're
387
00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:58.240
really thinking about it. You're going in beforehand and thinking about, like,
388
00:20:58.279 --> 00:20:59.960
oh man, how am I going to build my life
389
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:04.279
to take advantage of those stats to maximize what's going on.
390
00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:06.160
I love it.
391
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.559
I love it because, like you said, it makes the
392
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:13.000
players outcomes more realistic and based on your lineups.
393
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:15.480
Right the game outcome realistic.
394
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:18.640
Someone's at my door. I've got to get that be
395
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:19.480
right back.
396
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:24.359
Hobby Hotline is the Hobby's only live, interactive call in show.
397
00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:29.400
Join some of your favorite Hobby personalities every Saturday eleven
398
00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.559
am Eastern eight am Pacific to.
399
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:34.559
Discuss the hottest Hobby topics.
400
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:38.119
If you miss us live, catch us after the fact
401
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:42.440
on all major podcast platforms. Follow us on socials at
402
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:46.079
Hobby Hotline.
403
00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:50.400
Sports Cognation has returns.
404
00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:57.079
I'm assuming even before I asked this, well, I'll ask
405
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.599
it anyway, like, is it the same way too with
406
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:03.240
the pictures? In other words, it's Greg Maddox probably going
407
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:08.599
to outperform Steve Traxel, both on the same rotation, but
408
00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.680
one is obviously an ACE in the others of three
409
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:12.119
or four.
410
00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:15.880
Yeah, that's exactly right. Right, So you have your ACE
411
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:19.359
pictures as long as your picture meets a certain meet
412
00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:22.839
in certain thresholds for eard runs and wins or saves,
413
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:29.359
right or were seventeen sixteen under two.
414
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:34.200
Under two point fifteen r and over third.
415
00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:37.319
Sixty s right? So those pictures, what they do is
416
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:40.279
they change that cutoff line that batter has to so
417
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:43.200
it makes it harder, right, so all of a sudden, Oh,
418
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.119
you had to hit forty home runs, but now you
419
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:49.440
have to hit forty six some runs because your picture
420
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:51.720
of your facing is so much better and it goes
421
00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:55.319
lefty righty, So a lefty lefty matchup means you have
422
00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:57.759
to hit even the bar goes higher, but all lefty
423
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:01.160
righty doesn't go quite as high because lefty righty is
424
00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:03.759
a better matchup than lefty lefty. So you're bringing in
425
00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:06.599
your You're you're not only thinking about your starter, but
426
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:08.359
you're all thinking about, Man, what am I? What am
427
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:10.599
I bullpennging? How am I going to bring in my
428
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:14.960
Steve Beadrosian or John Franco, you know, because I know
429
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:16.440
I got a lefty and I know he's got the
430
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.640
save bonus, so I know I can put him up
431
00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:21.440
against you know, a lefty, because I got John Franco
432
00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:24.880
coming in. Like that's all built in the game too,
433
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:28.839
along with all the stuff about double plays and sat
434
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:32.960
flies and stealing bases and all the other little things
435
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:34.599
you want to do in a baseball game. And you're
436
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:37.960
moving the cards around the bases as they got, so
437
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:41.000
all that stuff is all built in it.
438
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:43.519
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
439
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:46.640
It's basically always lefty right or righty lefty.
440
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:49.599
You can choot wherever you want.
441
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:53.160
Fine, yes, below add on, but it's not as worse
442
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:53.880
as it could be.
443
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:56.920
Yeah, and obviously you want a righty righty or lefty
444
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:00.640
lefty matchup because that that's harder to stay. That's a
445
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.599
play out that it's it's it's harder to hit. I
446
00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:06.880
mean pun intended. Guys, it seemed like you really covered
447
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:10.279
all the bases. But let's get back to like, so
448
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:14.839
you had twenty renditions before you finally like were comfortable
449
00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:18.480
kind of talk about that process, Like what did you
450
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:21.599
run into where you're like, hey, we gotta we gotta
451
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:26.160
fix this or or tweak this or and this take
452
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:26.880
this out.
453
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:29.319
Some of the stuff that we did add in, like
454
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:34.200
the later versions were the like pitcher and hitter like
455
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:38.279
bonuses we like to call them, and like the double
456
00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:44.000
plays and stealing and sacrifice flies. Correct, but like not
457
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:47.279
everything we've had since the start, and we've changed a
458
00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:50.319
bunch of cutoffs, and we've changed some of the outcomes
459
00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:54.200
because like if you have a lot of hits, you're
460
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.319
to get out, you're least likely to hit like a
461
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:01.559
fly ball or strike out. You're more like to ground
462
00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:04.640
out because like you make contact, if you don't really
463
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:08.039
hit for power, she'd most likely hit it on the
464
00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:10.519
ground like a hit would normally be.
465
00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:14.359
Yeah, So you know, I think when we we just
466
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:17.160
originally had we knew we had seven stats because we
467
00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:19.519
had we had my cards from the eighties and his
468
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:21.880
cards from today and everything between, and we said, all right,
469
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:24.000
what what stats are in all those cards, and we
470
00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:25.519
know what every outcome has to be?
471
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:25.799
Right.
472
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:27.640
You know, you can either get a single, double, triple,
473
00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:30.839
home run, strikeout, walk, pop out, fly out, or groundout.
474
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:32.759
I mean that's literally all you can do with baseball.
475
00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:34.599
And then you have to do is just match We started,
476
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:37.799
we started matching them up. So it's like, obviously, how
477
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.039
many home runs you have, de terms out any home
478
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:42.359
runs you hit. But some things were sort of like, well,
479
00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:46.640
they stopped putting strikeouts on baseball cards back in twenty fourteen,
480
00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:49.440
and they put on war because I think it was
481
00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:51.680
all Mike Trout and Cabrera and the whole thing. So
482
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:54.000
they started You probably know more about that history than
483
00:25:54.039 --> 00:25:56.559
I do. But when we look at that and we said,
484
00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:59.119
oh man, how are we going to build strikeouts in
485
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:01.559
if we don't have a strike out stats. So you know,
486
00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:03.559
we said, look, we'll sync it up to number of
487
00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:07.039
hits you have and maybe how many triples, because triples
488
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:09.640
have been going way down so and straight has been
489
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:11.400
going way up. So we had to sort of we've
490
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:15.200
had to shoehorn some stuff in there. But it took
491
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:17.640
a lot of just honestly, there's a lot of Garrett
492
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:22.960
taking both sides, going upstairs, go upstairs. He'd play against
493
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:24.480
himself and just keep scoring.
494
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:24.680
Yeah.
495
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.440
I was scoring a bunch of games.
496
00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:27.960
And we'd come back and go, oh man, there's too
497
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:29.079
many triples, you.
498
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:32.279
Know, like there shouldn't be. There was a lot of
499
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:33.680
trowl ere there.
500
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:35.920
It took. I mean it was probably six months or more.
501
00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:38.720
I probably scored about sixteen.
502
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:41.440
Sixteen games himself, and we go, oh man, this isn't working.
503
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:44.200
We got to change this. Oh this isn't quite what
504
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:46.240
you know, And we would tweak, like you said, we
505
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:48.079
tweak a cutoff and say all right, well let's get
506
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:50.519
it to here, not there. Let's try to be fair
507
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:54.519
to certain eras of players, and that along with that
508
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:56.839
sort of statistical element of like, look, this is going
509
00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.960
to be six hundred and fifty at bats and we
510
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:01.640
know by the odds of a dice roll that it's
511
00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:03.400
gonna be a one in eighteen chance or one in51200:27:03.480 --> 00:27:06.359
thirty six chance. We can work out what those cutuffs are.51300:27:06.759 --> 00:27:09.559
But it really was just Garrett plod Away at it51400:27:09.720 --> 00:27:13.400
and his younger brother, Simon Fought, who's now six. But51500:27:13.480 --> 00:27:16.839
what's five would be our playtester too. He could roll dice,51600:27:16.880 --> 00:27:19.319
he can look at a card. He didn't know all51700:27:19.359 --> 00:27:22.839
the subtleties of it. But it's a game that in51800:27:22.880 --> 00:27:26.400
its essence a little kid, a little kid can get51900:27:26.440 --> 00:27:28.960
it because they know what the stat is and roll52000:27:29.000 --> 00:27:32.559
the dice. But the sophistication is the adult level of like,52100:27:32.640 --> 00:27:34.839
you know, draft to thinking about your history and you52200:27:34.920 --> 00:27:36.759
know what kind of team build everything else.52300:27:37.359 --> 00:27:43.240
I can't do it because as adults it's seven plus.52400:27:41.920 --> 00:27:43.720
You're you know more than most, you know more than52500:27:43.720 --> 00:27:46.799
most and that so yeah, that trial and error is52600:27:46.839 --> 00:27:49.920
what build us out long enough to where we had52700:27:49.920 --> 00:27:51.599
it basically on a piece of paper. But we never52800:27:51.720 --> 00:27:53.519
decided we didn't want to invent a game. I mean,52900:27:53.559 --> 00:27:57.240
we wanted to the game, but it wasn't like, hey,53000:27:57.279 --> 00:27:59.920
we're gonna go invent something and goes. When we did53100:28:00.039 --> 00:28:04.039
did say, we started playing with friends and stuff, and53200:28:04.279 --> 00:28:07.559
when his friends would come over, that's when we realized, man,53300:28:07.680 --> 00:28:09.880
people really liked them. You know, we put it enough53400:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.240
in and people are going, man, this is really good.53500:28:12.640 --> 00:28:15.759
So we went and we hand Garrett's hand drew the53600:28:15.839 --> 00:28:19.119
original play mat on a piece of paper so we53700:28:19.119 --> 00:28:21.240
could have a place for the cards and the bases,53800:28:21.319 --> 00:28:23.599
and we and we'd print out the rules and just53900:28:23.640 --> 00:28:25.400
stick it on the path, stick it on the piece54000:28:25.400 --> 00:28:27.759
of paper. And we played that for another couple of54100:28:27.839 --> 00:28:30.440
months before we said, you know what, this is so54200:28:30.559 --> 00:28:32.720
good and people are playing enough, let's go.54300:28:35.119 --> 00:28:39.119
On like paper, good paper because before we drew it54400:28:39.240 --> 00:28:42.079
out that then we like printed one when we made54500:28:42.079 --> 00:28:46.400
it more official, and then we started neo preming neopre.54600:28:46.559 --> 00:28:50.599
Yeah, so it it was. It was on paper, and54700:28:50.640 --> 00:28:53.039
we had it designed so it looked like a baseball54800:28:53.079 --> 00:28:56.279
field and it was on paper, and it just didn't54900:28:56.279 --> 00:29:00.559
want to be on paper. Yeah, it was tool. It55000:29:00.599 --> 00:29:02.519
felt like a board game, and we didn't necessarily want55100:29:02.559 --> 00:29:04.920
to make it feel like a board game. And Garrett's55200:29:05.759 --> 00:29:11.039
Garrett's friends play Pokemon, he does or matches the gathering55300:29:11.440 --> 00:29:14.319
and you know, they have these neoprem playmats that are55400:29:14.359 --> 00:29:18.440
like those mouths pads substance, and we said, well, why55500:29:18.480 --> 00:29:20.200
can't we make it out of that, Why can't we55600:29:20.279 --> 00:29:22.599
have it? These are when it's really easy to pick55700:29:22.680 --> 00:29:24.839
up those cards and it feels more like a trading55800:29:24.880 --> 00:29:28.240
card game of TCG, And so we ended up making55900:29:28.279 --> 00:29:32.079
it on a on a neopream surface, big sort of56000:29:32.079 --> 00:29:33.640
a big neoprem playmat.56100:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.319
My question, what, on average, how long does one game take?56200:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.720
Obviously it varies by maybe the scoring, maybe how fast56300:29:41.839 --> 00:29:46.000
of pace the individual person, uh you know plays, But56400:29:46.599 --> 00:29:49.480
what would you say how long was would you say56500:29:49.519 --> 00:29:51.240
the average game would take to play?56600:29:51.680 --> 00:29:56.079
I mean we've done it, We've like learned the rules,56700:29:56.119 --> 00:29:58.880
like I can basically memorize some of the stats. So56800:29:59.240 --> 00:30:04.119
maybe takes me like thirty five does like twenty minutes?56900:30:04.240 --> 00:30:06.279
Yeah, twenty minutes? I think it's like.57000:30:06.240 --> 00:30:11.880
An average person, it would probably be a bit round. Maybe, well,57100:30:11.920 --> 00:30:14.759
like somebody first trying the game, it may take an hour.57200:30:15.119 --> 00:30:16.640
Once you sort of get the hang of it, it57300:30:16.680 --> 00:30:18.240
starts getting shorter and shorter.57400:30:18.519 --> 00:30:20.160
Oh yeah, well, the longest.57500:30:19.759 --> 00:30:23.799
Part of the part of the game is finding what57600:30:23.920 --> 00:30:24.519
the outcome.57700:30:24.880 --> 00:30:27.839
Yeah, so you're Yeah, so if once you really learn57800:30:27.880 --> 00:30:31.200
it and you've learned what stat you know, the shorthand stuff,57900:30:31.519 --> 00:30:33.799
you could play in twenty minutes, but probably twenty and58000:30:33.880 --> 00:30:37.359
thirty minutes you're playing a full game of nine innings58100:30:37.599 --> 00:30:41.400
and depending how crazy you want to get with substitutions58200:30:41.400 --> 00:30:43.720
in bullpen. But that what it's fun about is then58300:30:43.720 --> 00:30:45.880
you can play a series at a time, you know,58400:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.200
you don't just one. And what we're talking about sort58500:30:49.200 --> 00:30:52.519
of cracking packs and playing teams. But you what we've58600:30:52.559 --> 00:30:54.680
also done and people have done, is we know people58700:30:54.960 --> 00:30:57.400
reached out to us. You go out and we got,58800:30:57.519 --> 00:30:59.960
for instance, someone gave us as a gift, the ninety58900:31:00.119 --> 00:31:04.680
four top set. Yeah so you so you so you59000:31:04.720 --> 00:31:08.279
go out and you we recreated the ninety three playoff59100:31:08.319 --> 00:31:10.799
teams because we're Phillies fans and I was Phillies guy59200:31:10.920 --> 00:31:14.839
ninety three. Yeah great, so we had we had the59300:31:14.920 --> 00:31:17.880
ninety three Phillies and ninety three Braves and ninety three59400:31:17.880 --> 00:31:21.480
White Sox, ninety three Blue Jays. Let's recreate the series59500:31:21.680 --> 00:31:23.240
because the game is so take we can do it59600:31:23.279 --> 00:31:25.599
in a weekend. We can play out the actual that59700:31:25.680 --> 00:31:30.519
actual series with those stats and see and see what happened,59800:31:30.519 --> 00:31:33.160
which is so cool. Like you can do that too.59900:31:33.319 --> 00:31:35.440
You can say, like, we're gonna take the you know,60000:31:35.559 --> 00:31:39.160
the ninety one Reds or something and the some and60100:31:39.240 --> 00:31:41.599
the some A's team, and we're gonna see what the60200:31:41.680 --> 00:31:44.559
Bash Brothers can do, you know, like that, and you60300:31:44.640 --> 00:31:47.400
do it quick like it's it takes more time to60400:31:47.640 --> 00:31:49.519
find the cards and build it than it does to60500:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.039
play the game. So you play a game series and60600:31:52.079 --> 00:31:54.000
you go, Okay, that was cool. I I just recreated60700:31:54.039 --> 00:31:56.119
the World series with the same starters.60800:31:56.440 --> 00:31:57.400
It's yeah, you can.60900:31:57.519 --> 00:31:58.359
It's really fun.61000:31:59.319 --> 00:31:59.519
Yeah.61100:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.359
You look back, you find the starting pictures and you say,61200:32:01.359 --> 00:32:03.440
all right, well, Garrett, we're gonna make a rule that61300:32:03.480 --> 00:32:05.440
the starting pitcher's going to work you know, every they61400:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.359
need four days rest. And you know, you can make61500:32:08.400 --> 00:32:10.440
all the rules of real baseball. You're like, oh, your61600:32:10.680 --> 00:32:13.599
your reliever can't do more than two games in a row,61700:32:13.720 --> 00:32:16.400
and you rest the catcher every five days. You do61800:32:16.440 --> 00:32:17.759
all that stuffy.61900:32:18.039 --> 00:32:21.000
Yeah, we play the season and you some dialogue of62000:32:21.440 --> 00:32:25.000
like who started in like your rotation, and who like62100:32:25.039 --> 00:32:27.519
your catcher was for the game to make sure like62200:32:27.559 --> 00:32:32.759
you actually rested them the Sunday. Like most MLB teams62300:32:32.839 --> 00:32:35.880
do it, they put the backup in the backup catcher,62400:32:36.319 --> 00:32:38.119
the backup catcher starts on the Sunday.62500:32:39.000 --> 00:32:43.640
Yeah. I love that he does it multiple day.62600:32:44.079 --> 00:32:46.279
And will Smith is taking a budget anyway.62700:32:46.599 --> 00:32:48.839
You know what I love to guys, And I'm sure62800:32:48.839 --> 00:32:51.759
you thought this is probably in some of the thinking too,62900:32:52.400 --> 00:32:56.279
is it's a great opportunity. Like obviously Garrett wasn't around63000:32:56.319 --> 00:32:59.799
in ninety three, like like we were, Matthew, But now63100:32:59.839 --> 00:33:03.599
he's getting to know those players and what kind of63200:33:03.680 --> 00:33:04.680
players they were.63300:33:05.200 --> 00:33:07.599
Yeah, he's learning. He's learning sort of.63400:33:07.519 --> 00:33:11.079
The history of baseball through the game itself and an63500:33:11.119 --> 00:33:14.279
other I'm using him as an example because we're talking63600:33:14.319 --> 00:33:17.039
to you, guys, when anyone else who's playing it that's63700:33:17.039 --> 00:33:20.519
on the younger side, that's using a cards that are63800:33:20.880 --> 00:33:24.319
players that played before they were even around, Right, They're63900:33:24.359 --> 00:33:27.880
going to learn a lot of those things from those stats.64000:33:28.200 --> 00:33:29.920
And I think that's great.64100:33:30.279 --> 00:33:32.799
So we you know, it's not just hey, I'm gonna64200:33:32.839 --> 00:33:38.200
beat you, it's you're getting the baseball education in the process, right.64300:33:38.279 --> 00:33:40.599
And I love that aspect.64400:33:40.839 --> 00:33:44.119
Was that something you were thinking about or just something64500:33:44.119 --> 00:33:45.759
that naturally happened.64600:33:45.880 --> 00:33:51.039
I mean for me, I I love showing him players64700:33:51.039 --> 00:33:54.240
from that junk wax area that a mild collection and64800:33:54.759 --> 00:33:58.319
comparing it to today's players, and him really realizing what64900:33:58.480 --> 00:34:02.440
stats are relative to each other. And it's definitely a65000:34:02.440 --> 00:34:05.920
byproducts that sort of nostalgia, that sort of hitting nostalgia65100:34:05.920 --> 00:34:08.559
and him learning more about baseball. I think the idea65200:34:08.599 --> 00:34:11.920
of learning more about the dynamics of double plays and65300:34:12.039 --> 00:34:15.559
sacrifice flies and all that stuff came out of this too,65400:34:15.599 --> 00:34:18.719
because he was like learning little league rules and everything65500:34:18.760 --> 00:34:22.840
else left you already matchups. But you know, my joke65600:34:23.039 --> 00:34:25.400
was he's like, he's say, oh, man eliea the Cruz.65700:34:25.440 --> 00:34:27.400
He steals so many bases, and I go, let me65800:34:27.400 --> 00:34:30.480
show you, Ricky Henderson, you know, let me show you65900:34:30.480 --> 00:34:33.599
if it's Coleman one hundred and thirty, one hundred and66000:34:33.639 --> 00:34:35.760
forty stolen bases. Here he goes, that can't be right.66100:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.559
I go, no, that's right, that's that's.66200:34:38.480 --> 00:34:41.760
A different And back then too, Garrett.66300:34:41.800 --> 00:34:45.280
You know they're stealing second, they're stealing third, and they're66400:34:45.320 --> 00:34:49.280
always at risk to play if the picture catchers is66500:34:49.360 --> 00:34:51.719
caught off guard. Those were you know, I know we66600:34:51.800 --> 00:34:53.840
have some new rules today that make it a little66700:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.079
bit easier to steal. But those guys didn't have those66800:34:57.159 --> 00:35:00.280
rules and put up those those kind of numbers. They66900:35:00.280 --> 00:35:03.800
were just they were just that that good. Thank you67000:35:03.960 --> 00:35:08.159
to Matthew and Garrett Weaver. And uh, that was part one.67100:35:09.159 --> 00:35:11.440
Next week, in part two, we're gonna learn more about67200:35:12.039 --> 00:35:18.159
how they settled on the final version materials products. You know,67300:35:18.280 --> 00:35:23.079
the difficulties of getting a game out there, but check67400:35:23.079 --> 00:35:29.079
out uh Baseball Card General Manager. Uh and uh, you know,67500:35:29.239 --> 00:35:32.280
I think we've all, you know, for baseball collectors. I67600:35:32.320 --> 00:35:36.519
think we've all played some sort of baseball related game,67700:35:36.559 --> 00:35:42.239
whether it be Fantasy Leagues or tisseriy, you know, video67800:35:42.360 --> 00:35:44.320
game versions like the show.67900:35:45.159 --> 00:35:45.280
Uh.68000:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.320
In my case, I've played straight O Matic out of68100:35:49.360 --> 00:35:54.920
This Park as well. And so you know, this is68200:35:55.360 --> 00:35:59.079
cool because you can use your own cards and play68300:35:59.119 --> 00:36:02.679
the game however you want to play it. So check68400:36:02.760 --> 00:36:04.840
that out and check them out. Next week they'll be68500:36:04.960 --> 00:36:09.360
back for part two. We're gonna wrap up this episode68600:36:09.400 --> 00:36:13.280
with our hobby is hobby is the People Announcer of68700:36:13.360 --> 00:36:16.559
the Week and some other closing item.68800:36:17.039 --> 00:36:21.960
Thanks everybody time for our hobby is the People Announcer68900:36:22.239 --> 00:36:23.000
of the Week.69000:36:26.320 --> 00:36:30.639
Hello Sports Cardination. This is al from Iconic Baseball. Keep collecting,69100:36:31.119 --> 00:36:34.679
stay iconic, and above all else, remember that the hobby69200:36:34.960 --> 00:36:35.480
is the people.69300:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.159
If you'd like to be the hobby is the people69400:36:38.239 --> 00:36:41.400
announcer of the week, do a one or MP three69500:36:41.480 --> 00:36:45.639
file and send it to Sportscard Nation PC at gmail69600:36:45.800 --> 00:36:47.800
dot com.69700:36:47.960 --> 00:36:49.000
SA. Good night, Kane,
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