July 17, 2026

"Sharing Grading Expertise" with Mike Baker of MBA E397

"Sharing Grading Expertise" with Mike Baker of MBA E397
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Most will agree Mike Baker is one of the most experienced people when it comes to the grading space. He was PSA's 1st employee and now is the force behind MBA. He joins us for the 1st time.


Talking Points may include:

*How it all started

*How grading has changed through the decades.


*Junk Slab era?

*Future of SGC

*What's the deal with MBA

*Thoughts on altering and cleaning

*Do the diamonds make a difference

*The subjectiveness of grading




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WEBVTT

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Sports guard Nations, Hobbies, the People, Wheely News and Interviews.

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It's your number one soul sports Gardations hobby is the people.

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Sports Guardation.

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What is up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Sportscardination.

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Always happy to be back with you. And let's thank

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our sponsors. Get that house clean out of the way.

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In no particular order, as I always say, SGC Iron

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Sports Cards, Sports Collectors, Digest, Hobby Hotline, Upper Deck Card Ladder,

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Any Certified Trading Card Association which I serve on the

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advisory board for Thank you to those folks, check them

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out and all the great things they're doing in the

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hobby and for the high be And the guest on

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today's show is a longtime hobbyist and PSA's first employee,

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employee number one. He's not there anymore, but he was

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there for quite some time. He does his own thing

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now for Mike Baker Authenticated And as the name implies,

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who that's our guest on the next two episodes this

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week and next episode. And that's Mike Baker. And you

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know I knew of him, I didn't know him personally,

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So through talking with him, I've gotten to know him

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better and really nice guy.

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You know.

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One of the first things he said when he agreed

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to come on and chat with us, he's like, John,

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ask me anything you want to write, and you know

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that's always refreshing to hear. And I asked a couple

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you know, I don't want to say tough questions, but

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pointed questions, if you will. But you know, we talked

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about the hobby, current state of affairs, grading, what he does,

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why he feels it's a necessary part, what it, what

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it enhances and brings to the grading metche and and

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he is also MBA is now grading cards as well,

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so they enter that arena. So great interesting conversation I had.

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I enjoyed it, and I hope you enjoy the next

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two episodes as much as I enjoyed recording them. So

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Part one with Mike Baker today and part two with

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Mike Baker next week. Enjoy all right, real happy to

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have the next gentleman on the Sports Cardination guest line.

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We were just joking around off here.

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It's been an interview long in the making, but glad

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he's a busy gentleman. Glad to finally get him on

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and generous to make us some time for us as well.

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So without further ado, I'm glad to welcome Mike Baker

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of NBA, Mike Baker Authentication, Mike, welcome.

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Thanks for having me. John, good to be here.

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Finally, Yeah, yeah, no problem.

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Listen, Like you know when we obviously grading is a

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hot button topic in the hobby and when you take

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a grade, and I'm not fluffing you up, I'm just

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being honest. Right, you're one of the names that come

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to mind because of your experience in that niche still

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doing it in your own way as well. Now, am

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I corrected? I read that you were the first employee

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of PSA or first grader.

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Yes, both, first first employee.

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Actually it's three five years this month that PSA started,

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So dating myself there, but you know, it can't get

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past the father time and the fact.

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So yeah, I'm with you.

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Talk about like a little bit before that, like how

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did that even start? You just supplied, did you did

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you know? Did you get recruited? Like how did your

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career at PSA start.

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It's basically just being at the right place at the

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right time.

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I had already been with the sister company, Professional Coin

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Grading Service CGS for two years prior to PSA's inception,

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and just by being there while they were developing the

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processes and everything else. So I'm just like, wow, I

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gotta this is where I want to go. And so

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I just kind of made myself available for reading conversation

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that you know, I find myself to be in to

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get into the conversation of who might be the guy

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to take it over or basically be the first guy there,

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and by de facto made myself that guy with their

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approval of course.

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So you're you're the answer to that. What a question,

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which is is pretty cool. You were there a decade plus.

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I mean when you take back too, like grading in

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its infancy, if you will, and where we are today

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here in twenty twenty six, I mean it's kind of

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a loaded question, but like, what's the like, how has

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it changed in your opinion through the decade.

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Well, when PSA first started, there was no halfpoint system,

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so right there, you know, working with a high end seven,

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a low and eight type thing was kind of it

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was difficult to kind of have the delineation that you

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have today with the half points.

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So and that moved on.

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It was I think for fourteen and plus years they

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didn't have it, so it didn't change until the early

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two thousands, So that change was a big one that

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we didn't have. I didn't have the change with the

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Internet EBA coming on in ninety eight, that was a

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major one. You know, QVC and doing big bulk submissions

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for modern stuff to try to narrow the gap, and

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the brand awareness of what PSA was ending, what they

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were actually doing, that helped big time. So there was

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a lot of things that kind of coalesced. You had

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the ninety eight home run Derby with McGuire and Bond,

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so there's a lot of a couple of little things

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that really helped juice up the no pun intended the

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entire the entire entire market as a whole. So those

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were some of the transformative things that I saw happen

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at that time. And you can look back now and say,

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you know what, we'll really the kind of the markers

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that kind of really pushed things over the edge. Dealer support.

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At the beginning of PSA's inception, there was very little

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dealer support. There's a lot of collector support that kind

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of made the dealers kind of all buy that car

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from you for this price. If you get it graded

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by PSA and then we had PSA authorized dealers, and

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you know, things kind of went a much better direction

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in terms of brand awareness and submissions and all those

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good things.

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You know, I'll pick your brainy here, Mike.

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A lot of people can play, you know, obviously most

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people know what's going on now. A lot of the backlog,

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especially if you say they've paused their low levels. Some

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people are complaining that people are sending in you know,

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air quotes, you know, lesser cards that they shouldn't be graded,

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or why are you grading.

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That it's a five dollar base card.

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Again, it's it's the individual's card if they wanted it great,

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might have a sentimental reason, right, there's all sorts of

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But I've heard people, you know, it's been called like

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the junks lab error.

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I mean someone who's been in it that long. Was

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this always the case?

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And maybe we're just more noticeable now because there's more

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people sending cards or or is this sort of a

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new phenomenon. How do you see it as someone that

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was there on in the early trenches to where we

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are to.

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Well in the early days, you know, just to get

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people to carry the product and start this kind of transactionality,

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so you got consistent with what people were buying and

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selling it just because forever it's been a raw product

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and now it's encapsulated, and now you know, there's more

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trust when you send an encapsultor product across the you know,

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across state lines, whatever it was, there's all kind of

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you know, bugaboos and whatever that came with it. What

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really has transformed, in my opinion, is repacking. And you

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know when you just brought up, you know, a five

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dollars card to get graded, well, the repacker is seeing

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that five dollars gig so that they can put that

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in the product. And so that's really what is in

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my opinion, has been the kind of major driver for cards.

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I will say though, because of the brand awareness is

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so big, people will come up to shows and you know,

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my booth I can speak for what we're getting, and

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they just want it encapsulated, you know, and they're willing

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to pay the price. I mean, you know, there's stories

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and you could get a lot of dealers on here.

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They remember the early days with PSA when six dollars

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bulk deals and you know, basically getting cards graded for

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under ten dollars without any uptick charges. That was the norm,

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and now you know, it's just a different, different era

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thirty five years later ish, you know that's uh, you know,

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who knew that repackers are going to be such a

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big deal and digital repacks you know, physical It's just

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it's just gone places where the market's humming. I never

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thought having a conversation, uh, where a grading company, the

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biggest grading company in the business PSA, would have to

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shut down because they're getting too many cards, you know,

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and and then to boot have a eight figure backlog.

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That's I can't even that's crazy, you know, and uh, yeah,

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things have changed.

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Yeah, and great point by you too, Mike. I that

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kind of slipped slipped through my five LL with the

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repacker roll in this as well.

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You forget I forgot it, but I didn't forget about them.

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But you don't, you know, you forget the impact they're

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having because they need those graded cards. Whether it's like

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you said, digital opening a digital pack, Uh, there's got

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to be a real card behind that that that person

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has the option to either take possession.

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Or have them holding whatever they're holding.

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Facility evolved, but that you know, we we I think

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sometimes a lot of us probably don't even realize that

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impact of it. It's not just you know Joe Smith

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from Chaboy and and again it's not really you know

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when people complain that about that to me, even at

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my tables, I'm like, listen, you know, if people want

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to pay the grading free to have a card graded,

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that's that's their prerogative.

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That's just this is America, right, Yeah, you know what

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I mean.

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So, so like you can get mad, but but you

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know when when when you're thinking a grading, niche too, Mike, Like,

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it's a weird business model because like if a restaurant

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is really too busy, they just hire more staff, maybe

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building an addition.

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With more seating. Uh and and uh.

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But grading is different because obviously you don't want just

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any you know, you say, well, just hire more graders, right,

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that's easily said, right, but you want to they need

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to be put through the paces, apprentice be trayed, you know,

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you know, and I think anyone that's getting their cards great,

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don't want just anyone to do it. If you have

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a choice between someone's who's experienced, who knows what they're doing,

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or doesn't, I think the choice is easy. So you know,

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I know it gets grating gets compared to a lot

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of you know, normal businesses, if you will, And I

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think it's sometimes hard to do that because it's just

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such a different kind of industry.

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It's not a restaurant.

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Where you can train a weight staff or you know,

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even a cook or whatnot in a week's time maybe

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or less. Right, It's it's not as easy as that. So,

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I mean, you know, kind of your thoughts on that, well,

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you just nailed it. I mean, this is you know,

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grating isn't three letters. It's greater as human beings are

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doing this.

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And you know, I'll give AI and machine learning a

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little bit of props to help with the centering identificing

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and sizing identification, but ultimately it's the guy that's looking

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at the card look, you know, and then having his

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experience on what he's looking at and interpreting that to

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a standard and then applying that consistently.

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It's not something you just grab off the street.

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If it was that easy, we wouldn't have, you know,

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ten million card backlocks. You know, do you think you

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know P s A or the other grading service wants

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to shut down their business and not take revenue. I mean,

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you know, you can conspiratorial think, oh, they're just trying

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to drive you know, prices so they get hire more

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money for hire charged services. You know, no one's in

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my opinion, I don't believe that. You know, there are

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cards that, like you said, they're worth five bucks, and

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you know there's there's a service option to service those

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types of cards valued at that level. But if they

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00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:23.919
could get if any grade service, could you know, get

234
00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:24.960
ten million.

235
00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:26.240
Cards out, they would try to do that.

236
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And I think, like you said, it's gated by the

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00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:30.559
person's experience. You can't take them off the street. They

238
00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:33.120
have to go through the the litmus test, so to speak,

239
00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:35.600
to get into the chair, know what you're doing, and

240
00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:38.799
then you know effectively grade you know, and that's a

241
00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:41.480
that's a it's a it's a talent, it really is.

242
00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:44.799
Do you think do you think this will be more

243
00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:47.720
of the norm, like even when let's you know, in

244
00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:51.080
PSA's case, they unpause these lower.

245
00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:52.399
Levels, these folk levels.

246
00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:54.759
Do you think this is gonna be sort of like

247
00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:57.480
we're gonna see this every so often or you think

248
00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:00.360
there'll be a point where they can stay ahead of

249
00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:03.879
it or or not because of the growth of the hobby.

250
00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:07.200
Well that's the balance, right, It's how much growth are

251
00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.879
we talking about? You know, what's what's the what's the

252
00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:13.080
future look like? You know, I think after COVID, I

253
00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:15.559
would have thought I would have thought that that wouldn't happening.

254
00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:15.879
You know.

255
00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:18.919
But the market, the markets, it's dynamic. It's going to

256
00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:20.120
do what it's going to do, you know.

257
00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:22.480
And I will say, like any market, there will be

258
00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:25.799
ups and there's hyperbolic ups right now within the market,

259
00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:27.919
and there there will be a downturn at some point.

260
00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.000
And just how it goes it's Murphy's law, whatever law

261
00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.080
you want to apply to what goes up must come

262
00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:35.919
down type thing. I think it's to what degree does

263
00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:38.000
it continue to go up? And to what degree when

264
00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.200
it does correct, will it go down? And I think

265
00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:42.879
that's the kind of the debate of you know, what

266
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:45.200
where should you be the timing of the market, Just

267
00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:47.799
like stocks or real estate, you know, you you hold

268
00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:51.000
something for a while, you really like it, especially you know, uh,

269
00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:53.120
trading cards in particular.

270
00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:54.639
You know, we all have a passion for them.

271
00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:58.039
And you know, I always say, you know, if your

272
00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:00.600
house is on fire and you've got cards, your dog

273
00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:03.080
and your wife, what order are you grabbing which one?

274
00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:06.399
You know it's cards usually falls on top, you know, and.

275
00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.360
I'm not going to answer that just well just to

276
00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:10.200
stay married.

277
00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:13.759
We're all, uh, we have a lot of you know,

278
00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.799
O's behavior in us to what degree is debatable, but

279
00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:20.600
you know, when you're spending your discretionary income on things

280
00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:22.919
like this, and now it's not even a baseball card anymore.

281
00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:25.200
Now it's an alternate class asset and all these other

282
00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:27.879
you know, big big league terms so to speak, you know,

283
00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:31.120
and they're coming in. I'd like to believe that's continue

284
00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:31.440
to roar.

285
00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:31.960
Uh.

286
00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:36.399
I know, it feels like we're the market's cool. You know,

287
00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:38.919
it's got a wow factor now. Before was like, oh

288
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:40.960
I got back from college and my mom threw away

289
00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:43.120
everything that I had and the addicts and stuff and

290
00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:45.799
or those are just baseball cards. Who really cares about that?

291
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:47.480
And now it's like, what do you mean? You have

292
00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:50.159
Pokemon cards and you know, trading cards. That's the greatest

293
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:51.799
thing ever you could be sitting on a fortune. So

294
00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:55.159
the whole narrative is switch. So to what degree that

295
00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:58.200
holds the line in terms of it going forward forward

296
00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:00.440
on a four or five X or whatever actually want

297
00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:02.320
to apply it. I don't know, but I want to

298
00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:04.080
put my finger on it and say I think it's

299
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:05.679
got some shelf life left to go stuff.

300
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:09.240
So yeah, no doubt. I tend to lean towards what

301
00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:12.120
you're saying. I think it's gonna get bigger, you know

302
00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:14.600
how much. I guess The question is how much bigger

303
00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:17.559
right now? Not the if, it's just how people quantity.

304
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.159
I got to ask you this question, Mike. You know

305
00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:26.440
we've collected Universe, a parent company of PSA. Obviously, they

306
00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:31.840
acquired SGC a few years back. We then read more

307
00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:35.320
recently they've acquired beck At Grading as well.

308
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.399
A lot of people up in arms saying it's a monopoly.

309
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:41.559
They own three of what most people would agree with,

310
00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:45.679
the Big four. You know, people want the government or

311
00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:50.039
the Federal Trade Commission to look into it, get involved.

312
00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:54.200
As someone who's worked for PSA and now doesn't has

313
00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:57.600
his own grading company in a sense like kind of

314
00:15:57.639 --> 00:15:59.000
where do you fall on?

315
00:15:59.360 --> 00:15:59.720
You know what?

316
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:03.480
Pop who are are with the monopoly word and antitros

317
00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:06.159
and all that stuff that comes with it.

318
00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:09.600
Politically speaking, it's it's easy, you know, for me from

319
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:13.639
NBA's perspective, My personal perspective, it's great because we're an

320
00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.679
independent and if you're tired of not wanting to deal

321
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:20.000
with what is perceived as monopoly or whatever the perception is,

322
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:24.039
then there's options. There's CGC, there's TAG, there's others that

323
00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:26.000
are out there that are trying their hardest to win

324
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:28.080
the hearts and minds of the community at large and whatnot.

325
00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:30.639
And I know we're doing the best that we can. Ultimately,

326
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:32.639
it's going to be dependent upon, you know, how they

327
00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:36.240
conduct the overall operations independent. I've been in interviews in

328
00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:38.600
the past where I've commented on, you know, there's something

329
00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:41.440
good that could come from this by consolidating. I know

330
00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.120
that's kind of like the opposite world of what most

331
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:47.639
people on the street would agree with. But if it's

332
00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:49.879
done right, they could pull it. If it's not, it'll

333
00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:51.039
it'll go the market.

334
00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.200
Again. The market will dictate what's going to happen.

335
00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.639
If that means oversight or whatever may come from it

336
00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:59.240
or not, I don't know. All I can tell you is,

337
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:02.200
you know, nobody wants to have a Tilian car backlog

338
00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:04.119
and not get those out and and tell people that

339
00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:05.880
have submitted that their cars aren't coming back.

340
00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.759
Until that, I can tell you. So I know no one's.

341
00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:10.640
Sitting around going how much longer can we hold lot

342
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:12.359
of these cars before we send them out without them?

343
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:14.559
Get this off. I don't no one's I don't believe anyone.

344
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:16.720
I think everyone's trying to do their best get the

345
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:18.279
cars in and out, and then it just comes down

346
00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:20.720
to service and you know, are you sticking to the line.

347
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:23.200
I think those are the two things that people mostly

348
00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:27.400
should be concerned with or or consider of, is service

349
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:29.920
and consistency. That's that's where it sits.

350
00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:30.799
That's what's gonna went out.

351
00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:35.160
Yeah, one more question kind of pertaining to those groups.

352
00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:38.440
You know, I'm asking you to put your like fortune

353
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:39.440
teller head on.

354
00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:41.160
Looking into the future.

355
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:45.519
Five years from now, does Collectors Universe or Collectives Holy?

356
00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:49.000
Do they still own all three grading companies?

357
00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:51.319
Do they own? Do they sell one too?

358
00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:52.839
Like, that's a good question.

359
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.319
You're not going to be penalized being rock.

360
00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:59.880
I think they're going to be public, and I think

361
00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:04.359
are probably gonna have and or more under their umbrella.

362
00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:07.720
So within five years they're public. They're a big juggernaut.

363
00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:12.400
They're moving and shaking, they're escalating the ten X factor.

364
00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:14.920
I know, Michael Rubin, so that's what he would like

365
00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.079
to accomplish at Fanatics and you know who knows that

366
00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:19.960
He said that a few years ago and they just

367
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:22.720
got the license just what this year. So you know,

368
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:24.599
that ten x factor could be much There might be

369
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:28.359
another multiplier on top of that. So PSA just opened

370
00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:31.839
an office in Frankfurt, Germany. We're talking about opening up

371
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:34.880
internationally at some point in the future. Right now, we're

372
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.039
trying to get our system scaled up to handle what

373
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.480
we get right now. But the international thing, it just

374
00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:42.359
shows you the growth of the hobby overall. You know,

375
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:46.000
we're going to attend the Macau Show in October, so

376
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:48.400
we're going to Macau, China to go.

377
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:49.279
Talk to collectors.

378
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:51.640
We get a lot of interest from you know, Singapore

379
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:55.200
and Taiwan and far. It's it's unbelievable how much reach

380
00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:58.400
now is out there and how people are you know,

381
00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:00.720
collecting and transacting all around the world right now.

382
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:02.319
And that's really the unknown factor.

383
00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:04.839
And how long does that heat up, uh and continue

384
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:06.519
to turn you know, yeah.

385
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:08.680
It's it's it's it's a you know, it used to

386
00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:12.079
be kind of America's hobby, right and now it's a.

387
00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:14.519
It's a worldwide phenomenon.

388
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:19.880
You are listening to the Sportscard Nation podcast will be

389
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:23.119
right back after this break. If you care about the

390
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.839
future of the hobby, it's time to know the name CTCA.

391
00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:31.839
The Certified Trading Card Association CTCA is the first and

392
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:36.359
only nonprofit trade association dedicated to making the trading card

393
00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:41.559
hobby safer, smarter, and stronger for everyone, from collectors and

394
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:45.640
local card shops the breakers, grating companies and hobby businesses.

395
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:51.240
Through initiatives like the Trusted Retailer Program, the Certified Breaker Program,

396
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:54.960
the Healthy Hobby Initiative, and the Global Trading Card Registry,

397
00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:59.880
CTCA is helping bring more trust, transparency, accountability, and for

398
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.400
protection to the hobby we all love. Whether you're a

399
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:08.000
shop owner, breaker, dealer, content creator or a passionate collector,

400
00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:10.519
Now is the time to help shape the future of

401
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:14.200
the hobby. Become a member today and join the movement

402
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:19.400
at the CTCA dot org. That's VCTCA dot org. Because

403
00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:23.880
a better hobby starts with all of us. CTCA building

404
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:26.480
a safer, smarter, and stronger hobby.

405
00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:30.200
We own batch.

406
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:34.640
You know, we're seeing shows like you just said in

407
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.519
China and Germany and other countries that have never had

408
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:42.279
a card shows in London, and the list goes on

409
00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:43.519
and on, and.

410
00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:45.359
You know, I like to see that.

411
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.799
I'm you know, as someone has started in nineteen seventy

412
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.480
nine as a seven year old kid. I like the

413
00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:55.680
fact that I don't want to think that someone won't

414
00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:59.240
can enjoy the hobby because of where they live, right,

415
00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:01.440
And that's a disqualifier.

416
00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:03.000
So I enjoy.

417
00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.319
I enjoy seeing the growth if it's good growth, right.

418
00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:11.400
You know that's a double edged sword. You know, we

419
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:14.400
won't go down that rabbit hole. But I do enjoy

420
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:17.920
seeing the growth. It's interesting to hear you say, like

421
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.039
in your opinion, like you you think they still not

422
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:24.240
only do you think they still hold those companies and

423
00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:28.000
you even mentioned maybe even acquire another one that would

424
00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:31.200
surprise me with some of the uh to answer my

425
00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:34.319
own question, Mike, I don't know, like they're already getting

426
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:37.039
heat for what they own now to add another one,

427
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:41.000
whoever that may be, Like, I'd be surprised if they

428
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:45.079
did that. But you know, nothing really should surprise us

429
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.119
anymore what we've seen in the in the last decade

430
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:49.279
and the hobby, well.

431
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:51.039
You keep pushing until you find out where you can't

432
00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:54.240
push anymore. Right, Yeah, So you know if they were

433
00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:56.920
if they were to do something like that and some said, no, okay,

434
00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:58.799
we know the ovens hot now, we won't touch it.

435
00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:01.279
So but if some one says that I've been open

436
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:02.720
for business and then why not.

437
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:05.880
You know, no, that's a great point.

438
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.400
And listen, I do that, you know when I still

439
00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:12.680
play met's competitive softball and I coached varsity high school

440
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:15.319
baseball and football, and I would put you know, I

441
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.039
pushed the umpster the refs right until they tell me

442
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:19.240
like no, you know.

443
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:20.640
I don't want to hear another word out.

444
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:22.640
Of your your guard and I know that, all right,

445
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:25.000
I gotta I gotta keep my mouth quiet now, so

446
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:27.960
it makes it makes sense. So yeah, maybe that's what

447
00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:31.079
it'll be, right where until they're told like, hey, you

448
00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:34.039
have to sell at least one or you can't do that.

449
00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:37.440
But uh yeah, it'll be interesting, uh to see you

450
00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:40.559
know my big fear. And I'll just like close this

451
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:44.039
segment with you know my big fear. You know, people

452
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:47.200
asked me because I was bolk subbing as an SGC

453
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.400
folk subber at at the time of the acquisition. A

454
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:52.519
lot of people were asking me, Hey, what does this mean?

455
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:53.920
What is this going to look like?

456
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:56.640
And honestly, I can only give an opinion.

457
00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.720
I'm not in those meetings or those out look planned,

458
00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:04.240
so you know, I gave my opinion. But the one

459
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:07.079
thing I was glad about my big fear, and I'll

460
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:08.599
get your take on this too, Mike.

461
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.400
My big fear was that Fanatics was going to.

462
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.119
Buy a grading card company, and I don't want to

463
00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:19.440
see that. And again, I think it's a conflict of

464
00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:23.359
interest when you're producing cards and grading them and not

465
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:26.599
only grading your own cards per se, but you're also

466
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:32.960
a sensible be uh cards for all reports very well.

467
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:36.279
And you know, I don't think they need a grading

468
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:41.759
card company. As someone who's very experiencing the gricks, let's say,

469
00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.400
acquired SGC or even someone else and became got into

470
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:46.359
the grading space.

471
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:48.519
You broke up there a little bit, John, So I'll

472
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.559
just grab what I could make out of the stuff

473
00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:53.519
of the internet connection. I don't know what happened there,

474
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:56.039
but give me a quick snapshot of what. As you

475
00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:58.440
were talking about Fanatics owning a grading company.

476
00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:02.960
Yeah, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm glad Fanatics did it,

477
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:06.920
and again, everything can still happen, but at this point Fanatics,

478
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.240
you know, there was rumors they tried to acquire STC

479
00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:11.640
and others grading companies.

480
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:12.920
I don't want to see.

481
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:16.000
I don't want to see Fanatics own a grading company.

482
00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:17.359
I just think it's a catholic of.

483
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:21.640
Interest with grading their own cards, grading competitors cards.

484
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:24.480
I think it just said, it's a bad sort of precedent.

485
00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:29.559
As someone again of your expertise in the space, do

486
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:33.160
you agree disagree something You're glad it's not the case now.

487
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:38.480
Well, ideally there would be guardrails for companies that have

488
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:41.960
access to production, sales and everything else. But you know,

489
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:45.039
in this market, over the last couple of years, we've

490
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:45.799
seen a lot of chains.

491
00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:47.960
We've seen what you mentioned about, you know.

492
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:52.440
PSA doing or collectors, you know, other things that have

493
00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:54.640
kind of gone on that I would have thought, you know,

494
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.640
years ago, would have absolutely not happened, and now they

495
00:24:57.680 --> 00:24:59.799
are and there hasn't been durs and up war. But

496
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.359
seems like our news cycle, so the velocity is so

497
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:06.000
fast that there's no like traction of something. It just

498
00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:08.079
like everyone kind of gets up in arms about it,

499
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.759
whatever it may be, and then it kind of burns

500
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:13.319
its shelf life off in forty eight to forty eight

501
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.640
hours to a week, and then it's onto the next

502
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:19.599
you know, butterfly to catch. And so however it works

503
00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:23.079
out with Fanatics doing anything or whatever other company, it'll

504
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:25.640
be what it'll be. And people, again, the market's gonna

505
00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:28.440
go back and decide what they want to do business.

506
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:28.559
With or not.

507
00:25:28.599 --> 00:25:31.640
I mean, ultimately, if the if the prevailing thought is

508
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:34.079
that Fanatics shouldn't do that, then the only way to

509
00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:36.359
counter it if they were to do it is for

510
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:39.319
people to not do business with them, to make it

511
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:43.359
so they get But ultimately there's ways to gamify everything

512
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:47.000
and kind of make the friction not be so frictionalbul

513
00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.960
or whatever the word is, to use them as a

514
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:53.640
service hypothetically. So I don't know, we could go on

515
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:56.000
and on about the debate of the the what ifs

516
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:57.799
and stuff. They're gonna do what they're gonna do, and

517
00:25:57.839 --> 00:25:59.720
PSA did what they were going to do, and they

518
00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:01.640
let to like, hey we did it, now what you

519
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:04.079
know and so and everyone stile submitting to the point

520
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.279
where they had to shut down services. So, you know,

521
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:08.680
if it was that big of a deal, I think

522
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:10.680
it would have you would notice it more in submissions

523
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:14.279
because you know, even if you can't stand what whatever

524
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:16.920
you hate about a service or the service, you know,

525
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:20.200
ultimately the three letters command a lot of liquidity, and

526
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:24.519
people are entrenched in certain brands for that liquidity, and

527
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:26.920
they're and some of them, you know, are so OCD

528
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:30.240
they can't found them using another grading service to you know,

529
00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.440
kind of mess up their ecosystem. And then they're collectible.

530
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:35.559
So they want all the same holders. They want everything

531
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:37.559
to look this way. You know, everything's going to be

532
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.440
this color or that color. So you know, I don't know.

533
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:43.160
I think it's up for each individual to figure out.

534
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:45.160
Look, we if you have one hundred dollars bill.

535
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:47.160
Right now and you could spend it on anything, why

536
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.519
why this market, why that grading service?

537
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:50.799
Why whatever? Right?

538
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:53.200
So ultimately it's going to be up to you and

539
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:55.880
the other people in the world to to sort where

540
00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:57.799
they want to spend their money. And for whatever reason,

541
00:26:58.039 --> 00:27:00.519
even if it's putting your nose up in the air saying,

542
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:02.079
you know, I hate to do.

543
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:03.839
This, but I have to.

544
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:05.519
My client won only buy it if it's in this

545
00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:06.640
gredient services holder.

546
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:07.759
You're going to look the other way.

547
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:11.200
Most people do you know, conviction in our world, in

548
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:14.000
the business world, you know, you can't put your personal opinion.

549
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:16.960
You have to do business and business. Business is business.

550
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:18.440
It's cliche for a reason.

551
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:22.000
Yeah, now you're right, you're right. All right, Let's enough

552
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.279
talking about other three letters. Let's talk about MBA. Right,

553
00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:29.839
we gave them some free pub not that they need it,

554
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:33.039
but we gave it to them. Anyway, Let's talk about

555
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.880
your company MBA. Mike be bankerupt and kind of like, wait,

556
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.880
you know how you you know why you started it,

557
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:45.079
how you started it, where you are today and all

558
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:45.480
that good?

559
00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:50.480
Yeah, the why was there's a you know, just heard

560
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:53.440
PSA celebrated or the celebration of one hundred and fifty

561
00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:57.880
million shirt being bought out on the market thirty five years.

562
00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:00.519
So let's say the numbers one hundred and fifty with

563
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:04.519
a PSA overall market, you've got to probably talk of

564
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:07.160
the two hundred million plus range, you know, of units

565
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:10.880
of plastics that are out there. Over twenty thirty plus years,

566
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:14.559
Greden Services have changed their standards. They've included new things

567
00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:17.720
within their standard. They've tightened up their standard with centering.

568
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:19.960
There's a lot a little here and there and everywhere

569
00:28:20.119 --> 00:28:24.440
where I thought a sticker could be a good idea.

570
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:27.279
It was proven to be a good idea in coins

571
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:30.920
with John Albani's doing the CAAC sticker, much so to

572
00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:37.359
everyone's opinion that PCGS actually included this their sticker into

573
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:40.440
their waiting of the ECGs coin register, so it included

574
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:43.359
a lot more gamification. So a sticker had a higher

575
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:46.000
weight or has a higher weight than a nonstick coin,

576
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:50.519
so it has a track record of highlighting better copies.

577
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:53.519
So I did not invent that will PWCC was doing

578
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:56.160
their sticker well before NBA came up with one. For

579
00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:59.400
the trading card industry, there are other stickers that auction

580
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:04.000
houses US four shot corners as Theirs Heritage has one.

581
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:07.240
You know, there's been others here and there that was.

582
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.000
The the need is.

583
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:10.359
You know, you've got all these great cards out there

584
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.400
that are in the same grade, but some cards are

585
00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:15.319
just better within the grade. I always use as an

586
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:18.160
example for nines in particular, PSA doesn't have a nine

587
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:20.400
point five, So between a nine point zero and a

588
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:21.400
nine point nine.

589
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:22.640
There's just better cards.

590
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.119
It's just a fact they don't have a pristine They

591
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.519
don't have a flawless or a black label type of thing,

592
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:31.079
so our sticker helps with that. And over we'll be

593
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:34.440
celebrating our six year anniversary coming up here in August.

594
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:37.079
And we finally got some really great I think we

595
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.640
had our moment in time, our tipping point last National

596
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:43.920
in Chicago, and some great sales happened. Heritage got some

597
00:29:43.960 --> 00:29:48.119
great sales, Golden got some great sales. Ria Fanatics and

598
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:50.680
it just like was like this perfect moment where they

599
00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:55.240
started advertising NBA within the catalog, describing it properly.

600
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:57.880
There's more search, there's just more information.

601
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:01.319
Also, when we first started, a lot of the cards

602
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:03.519
that we sticker were in personal collection, you know, so

603
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:05.440
it was no one wants, no one wants to sell

604
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:08.920
PC cards, right, But this hyperbolic market has drawn out

605
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:12.839
a lot of colorful cards that are stickered great cards

606
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:16.359
and they're selling for stratosphere prices and it just keeps turning.

607
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.640
So another log gets thrown on the fire and it's

608
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:21.440
still roaring and ripping, and it's been it's been great,

609
00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:24.440
you know, I've it's been a hard road. But getting

610
00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:27.160
out their COVID was a big non starter for people

611
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:29.759
wanting to send their cards. We've been labeled grading the

612
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:31.759
graders and all the other you.

613
00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:33.480
Know, fun terms and whatnot.

614
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:37.599
You know, ultimately it's a crossovers. The sticker means something

615
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:40.920
to what we do for our NBA graded product.

616
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:43.319
So if it's a silver sticker, it's going to get

617
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:44.599
the exact same grade.

618
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:46.680
But you're gonna get a silver sticker on our holder

619
00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:50.000
because it's denoting superior eyepill for that card in that grade.

620
00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:52.960
A gold sticker represents something that's a half point or higher.

621
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:54.640
Yeah, I'm a little stubborn.

622
00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:57.759
I'm a little oak and so I always felt that

623
00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:01.039
was like you're paid twice to have one card. So

624
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:04.480
I've never done it again. It's but again, it's a

625
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:09.160
free country. It's America, right, and obviously enough people wanted done.

626
00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:12.759
I guess my question to you is not so much

627
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:16.480
why you know, but like when when a card gets

628
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:19.160
a silver stick and like, it's a great point by you,

629
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.079
right with C I see that. I know they were

630
00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:24.759
called the green Bean in the coin and and the

631
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:26.720
track record shows us right.

632
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.400
I'm not a coin guy, but I did enough research

633
00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:29.759
to know.

634
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:32.799
And I have a coin guy friend who said, hey, John,

635
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:35.839
one knows with that green bean sticker, those coins for

636
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:38.759
more money on the secondary like it or not, those

637
00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:43.160
bringing more money on the secondary market. Right, So I

638
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:46.240
guess my question to you is between the silver and

639
00:31:46.279 --> 00:31:49.279
the gold, and like I've heard it worded like this

640
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:53.319
has been you know, in the ten percent of the

641
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.680
top of that grade. How do you know that? I

642
00:31:56.720 --> 00:31:59.519
guess would be my I know it's sort of a simple,

643
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.960
maybe so simplified, but how do you know that other

644
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.920
than you feel like it's sort of like I mean,

645
00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:09.480
grading is subjective to begin with, you know what I

646
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:11.839
mean to say to how do we know? Well?

647
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:15.000
I think you know, if I showed you ten copies,

648
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:17.400
I think it would be pretty easy for you and

649
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.160
I to agree that the copy that's getting a sticker

650
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:25.119
is in within the percentage that's being you know, marketed. Ultimately, though,

651
00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:28.440
you know, we started our graded product Holder hit the

652
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:32.319
market in January of twenty five. Now, you know, it

653
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:35.400
shifted from it being that conversation of you know, if

654
00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:36.960
you had ten or fifteen cards in front of you,

655
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.519
which ones would you what? Could we all agree that

656
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:42.480
that is the superior copy within that grade in that sample?

657
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:45.119
And now it's literally a crossover.

658
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:47.480
So you know, we look at it like it's got

659
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:51.200
to adhere to NBA standards, NBA grading standards, and the

660
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:54.799
sticker goes to that. If there's ever you know, a wobbler,

661
00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:58.160
you know, then maybe the conversation kick into the ten percent.

662
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.759
But by the national or shortly or after, we'll have

663
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:02.839
our bronze sticker that's gonna come out and that's going

664
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:03.960
to be the great equivalent.

665
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:05.480
So it's basically going to note.

666
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:08.480
Bronze sticker will denote the exact same grade going into

667
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:11.599
an NBA holder. A silver will denote supure I appeal

668
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.079
for that grade. So you have a silver gold half

669
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:18.640
point or higher and black strictly for tens for denoting

670
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:19.400
a fallicity.

671
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:20.400
So that's how you.

672
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.519
Know, yeah, you know, I hear black label and we

673
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:27.240
have you think about the old back controversy. That's a

674
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:30.720
whole show in itself, but that's again that's them and

675
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:34.880
not you. So what for those that are listening, like,

676
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:38.160
what's the difference between this? So is there gonna be

677
00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:40.039
no more gold? Is there a gold label?

678
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:42.240
Yeah, there's there're are Yeah.

679
00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:46.480
So basically third party third party graded cards P s A,

680
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:48.400
S G C G s C D tag are the

681
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:51.400
ones that we do right now, any any gold represents

682
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:54.720
a higher grade. Any any silver represents the same grade

683
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:57.000
with supure I appeal, and when we do launch Bronze,

684
00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.960
it will reflect the exact same grade going into an

685
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:00.839
be A granted holder.

686
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:04.559
Yeah, so if a card gets a gold sticker from

687
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:09.760
from MBA, you're basically saying that was undergraded, right in

688
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:10.440
your opinion?

689
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:10.920
Yes?

690
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:14.000
Do you ever not that you care? Do you like?

691
00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:17.760
Do you do you ever get any pushback or feedback

692
00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:20.800
from a grading card company that like, hey.

693
00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:23.400
Why do you do that? Or you're wrong or you

694
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:24.840
know that doesn't make sense?

695
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:26.320
No, No, there's not.

696
00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:30.840
I think it's I joked about it last week, and

697
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:34.199
it's kind of like Anchorman. The greatest services are kind

698
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:36.280
of like news stations, and it seems like there's not

699
00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:39.480
a lot of you know, you know, cohesion. Now I know,

700
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:42.480
you know, Scott At a great guy knows this stuff,

701
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:44.519
no doubt about it. Can I call him up and

702
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:47.599
ask him about a card's nuances or if there's a

703
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:50.480
question about something. Absolutely, are we having, you know, a

704
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:54.239
philosophical discussion about what NBA is doing relative to a sticker?

705
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:54.519
No?

706
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:56.519
And I bet if we did he think it'd be great.

707
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:58.400
Same with some of the guys that I hired and

708
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:01.360
trained that are still at PSA, you know, leading the

709
00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:02.880
entire grating department.

710
00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:03.400
Uh.

711
00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:05.239
I think they say that they're great.

712
00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:08.280
They're happy that I'm I found a lane to you know,

713
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:10.559
that I'm happy with. And I think the market for

714
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:13.840
the most part is has been acceptant of I know

715
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:16.480
there's the naysayers out there, but like you said about

716
00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:19.480
the coin and the CEC, the green bean sticker, whether

717
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:21.239
you like me or you don't like me, it's not

718
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:24.199
a personality thing. It's it's the data that that that

719
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:27.239
comes from the sales and that builds the business case.

720
00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:30.159
That's what should that's where the decision should lie from,

721
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:33.079
not on all the other superfluous stuff that you can

722
00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:34.719
get caught up in in this you know, cause and

723
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:37.559
effect mentality that a lot of people have in our hobby.

724
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:40.320
Yeah, No, it's it's a good point. There.

725
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:43.880
You have it Part one with Mike Baker, Mike Baker

726
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:49.000
Authenticated or m b A. And UH hopefully enjoyed that

727
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:52.280
as much as I did, you know, recording it and

728
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.480
talking with Mike. And that's only half of the conversation.

729
00:35:56.039 --> 00:36:00.960
Part two next week. As we've you know, went to

730
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:05.480
two part episodes probably almost a year ago now and

731
00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:08.360
probably one of the best decisions I've made.

732
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:09.679
For the podcast.

733
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:14.199
So next week Mike Baker returns and uh, as always,

734
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:17.480
as we gear up for the national I hope to

735
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:20.920
see a lot of you there. If you see me,

736
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:24.199
and you know, happen to know who I am. Uh,

737
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:28.239
you know I'm a very personal guy. Stop me, poked

738
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:30.719
me in the back, tapped me on the shoulders, say

739
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:34.679
yo newman. Uh and uh, what would you know? I'd

740
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:37.920
like to meet you, shake your hand and talk some

741
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:42.000
hobby uh in person as well. So that's gonna do it.

742
00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:44.079
For this episode. We're gonna hear from our hobbies, the

743
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:48.000
people announcer of the week and wrap it up and

744
00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:50.519
Mike Baker will be back next week.

745
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:55.320
Time for all. Hobby is the people announcer of the week.

746
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:01.880
What's up sports Card And this is Brett McGrath with

747
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:07.239
Stacking Slabs podcast. Remember the hobby is the people. If

748
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:09.800
you'd like to be the hobby is the people announcer

749
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:12.800
of the week, do a one or MP three file

750
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:17.159
and send it to Sportscard Nation PC at gmail dot

751
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:20.480
Com Hey John, you want to have a catch