Ryan Stuczynski of Gemrate is back "Weighing in on the terrain" E360

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Sports guard Nations, Hobbies, the People, Wheely News and Interviews.

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It's you on number one song, Sportscarnations, hobby is the People, spawns.

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Garnation, What is up? Everybody? Episode three sixty sportscard Nation

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Coming your Way, Part two of our great conversation with

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Ryan Sezinski from gem Rate, and we're gonna tackle This

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episode is gonna be uh part two and longer than

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part one, and we're gonna tackle a lot of different things,

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including his takes on what he thinks going on in

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the grading market. Is it is it a junk slab

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era as some people say? What did he think of

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collectors buying or acquiring SGC? Does he think the end

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is near? Foreshg. He's going to weigh in on that.

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And you know, as great as the work he does

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with jem Rate, he doesn't you know, those reports don't

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give kind of his feelings. So that's great. You know.

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That's what's great about having him on, is we get

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really how he really feels or what he thinks is

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going on. So it was great catching up with him

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after a couple of years, and again we'll have him

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back on sooner. The next time he comes on but

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that's this week's episode, so let's get to it, all right.

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It is the conclusion of our conversation with Ryan Stizinski

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from jem Rate, and we're going to start out here

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talking about what he thought when he heard the news

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that Collectors had acquired SGC. Grady. You know, I obviously

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I love your emails, I love the report itself. But

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the one thing you don't get with that, right is

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your opinionion. It's it's sort of it's data, right. So

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I want to I don't want to call it the

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hot seat, but you know, I want to get your

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your you know, Ryan Cezenski's opinion when that acquisition was announced,

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when Collectors acquired, as you from a from a personal aspect,

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you know, what were kind of your thoughts on when

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that news broke.

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You know, as somebody that lives and breathes just every day,

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I was caught off guard by it, you know. And

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I feel like I'm reasonably in tune with what's happening.

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You know. Again, I talked to the teams enough where

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I feel like I'm cludeding to sort of certain initiatives,

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and I was caught off guard by that and that

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that sort of meant a couple of things. One is

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it sort of happened pretty quickly, at least in my mind,

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and again it may not have ultimately, but just a

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lack of sort of whispers or visibility into that was

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really surprising because I just figured it would have crossed

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my desk at some point, and it obviously didn't. It

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felt like a defense measure by PSA slash collectors when

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it happened, and it felt like, you know, you were

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hearing a lot of sort of chatter what it might

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look like for fanatics to get into the grading space,

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and so I personally thought it was more of like

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a hey, let's just do we need to do to

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sort of quiet this. We'll make SGC work for us.

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There's certain synergies and overlap that makes sense for us

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to onboard no matter what. There's sort of a floor

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here that's pretty well understood, and let's sort of get

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to know and better understand the SGC brand is a

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part of this, and so I just felt like a

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logical way for collectors to sort of quiet sort of

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the competitive chatter from what it might look like for

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another massive player in the space to bring grading on

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board and scale at a pace that maybe can only

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compete with you know, only a few people could compete

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with PSA. And yeah, so anyways, I think they just

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explored what they might look like and at the same time,

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it was one where they figured they could onboard greaters,

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you know, in a way. Grading is a challenge, you know,

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when we talk about Beckett earlier, Like Beckett is one

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of the reasons that they haven't grown as much as

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people wish they would have over the years is they're

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just very particular and like their grading style and like

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it's just very hard that we take for granted how

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easy it is to sort of fill these grading roles

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and what it means to train these grads and sort

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of you know, have people sort of advance or sort

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of filter out as or flow out of the you know,

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the onboarding process. And you know, that was another way

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that I think PSA could rationalize sort of making that acquisition.

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So I think it was one that you know, the

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short answer is that I think it was defensive. I

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could be completely wrong there. I have no visibility or

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insight into that, and I think it was one that's

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productive for them ultimately in a sense that they learned

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a lot and they've picked up a lot of you know,

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visibility into what was working over there. But you know,

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ultimately the direction they've gone in is that they're sort

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of minimizing that brand instead of investing in it in

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a way that might compete with you know, PSA a

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bit more or sort of provide people with that second

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option at scale. And you know, ultimately it just feels

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like they kind of have landed in the place where

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I do feel like it was a bit of a

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defensive measure and they kind of kick the tires on

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what that could mean for them, but ultimately landed in

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a place where you know, they're sort of prioritizing the

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PSC brand, which again not surprising, but sort of really

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suppressing the SUC brand in the process, which is frustrating

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for a lot of people.

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Yeah, I mean, I'll guess I'll wear that hat as

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as you know, the full disclosure. They sponsored this podcast

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and they're good for the rest for the rest of

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this year, and I'm still am a folks over for them, right.

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I just had to adjust my rates as they've made

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the discount rate go away, and you know, people come

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up to my table at the show and and they

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asked me, you know, John, you know, and they know,

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some of them know, like my relationship, how far it goes?

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When they're like John, I'm here and this is gonna

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be the end of them? And uh, you know collectors

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or you know, they usually say PSA is gonna phase

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them out and and and that sort of thing. And

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I ultimately, I hope that isn't the case. I don't

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have a vote or a say, but I mean, you

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know we're talking to year from now is see it?

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You know, we'll again. We can speculate all we want

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right until it have but a year from now, is

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STC still exists as a grading company?

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I think so. I think what Ryan Hoape said over

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the summer is sort of the course that they're going down,

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which is, you know, I think he was very candid

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and didn't really shy away from the idea that look

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where boutique means something to us. And he gave a

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specific period of time which was like twenty sixteen twenty

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seventeen levels for SGC as he sort of envisioned where

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things might return to. And if you can look back

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at the data and some of the you know, comments

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that were made back then, they were only doing you know,

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twenty to thirty thousand cars at that time, So I

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think they're going to exist. I think they're going to

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sort of service a diche around vintage really well. I

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shouldn't even sort of overstate that. I just think they're

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going to service that. Hopefully they do it really well

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and that sort of continues to sort of carry them

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through and have significance for the hot or play a

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significant role for the hobby. Even for those people that

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were it's like their sweet spot and they love that

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brand and they want the consistency and the uniformity of

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having that's continuing forward. So I think they're still around,

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but I just think they're not going to do, you know,

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the things that sort of help them excel. The last

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couple of years was doing top specials and things like

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that where they were grading fifty thousand cards from the

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same set, right, which is one great for them because

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they can, you know, the catalog of cards are seeing

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is pretty limited and the volumes really you know, fantastic

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for them for a short period of time. They're just

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not going to do that stuff anymore. So I think

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they'll still be around, And I also think it sort

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of has this long tail impact of when you think

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about how people price cards and slabs that they're in,

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you know, to degree you don't think a company is

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going to be around impacts the slabs. And so if

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you think that a company becomes less and less relevant,

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the slabs do take a hit one way or another.

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I think people just sort of devalue companies that sort

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of disappear. And so to the degree that they can

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sort of even if they're only grading twenty thousand cards,

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but they're grading them really well, it still helps the

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equity sort of sustain that these were really solid grading

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foundations that continue to exist. The proof is still sort

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of being delivered on every day. And so if I

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was sort of sitting in their seats at the collectors

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you know table, I would think that that's the play,

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which is just let's give them a little bit of

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room to operate. If something jumps sort of there's some

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certain places where they start to sort of surprise, or

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there's outliers for what they're seeing versus what we're seeing

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sort of at the scale unit of collectors and PSA,

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then they could take note of it. But ultimately I

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think they're just going to let sort of their loyalists

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continue to lean into their sort of leveraged SGC, but

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like really limit the resources that they devote to it.

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Yeah, well, listen, great points, great points. One thing I

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want to like a point you made that I think

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people forget about, right, Like having the brand still exists, right,

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affects the cards that have already are in those slavs,

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right if that brand goes away. We've seen that with

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other brands that don't exist anymore, like out of sight,

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out of mind, and then obviously that's going to effect

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the value of any card encapsulated. So like to me again,

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and I like you, I don't have any sort of

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inside or trading knowledge or anything like that, but I

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just don't It wouldn't make a lot of sense to

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just get rid of SGC. From collector's standpoint, I mean,

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I can, I guess you could make both points for

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both sides, but uh, something they would own would lose

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value even if even if they didn't want it to

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exist anymore. And listen, you know, right, depending on the month.

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And I know it's been a bad trend lately for SGC,

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especially looking at the gem rate numbers, but you know,

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at one point they were one and two, right, and

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that really wasn't that wasn't necessarily debatable if they making

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an announcer, Hey, sgc's going away, this is the last

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day to sow many cards and then that's it. I mean,

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there's always gonna you know, we can we can say

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but PSA is gonna be hard to knock off that

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number one perch. But there's always good someone's always going

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to be number two, whoever that might be. You know,

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they they phase out SGC, and I think CGC walks

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right into the number two spot on chat you know,

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un chat today again, six months from now, a year

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from now, two years from now, you know, like you said,

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things can change. But they would really open up the door,

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Like the competition is not going away when you it's

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just like it's like college football ranking. The team gets

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knocked out, someone else is moving up into that slot,

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so you're sort of opening. To me, it would be

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really opening the door. Even some would argue Ryan that

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the PSA sort of opened that door already somewhat to

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other for other companies. But you get rid of SGC.

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I think they're just opening the door wide open. Rather

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than a crack or a smith so you know, kind

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of your thoughts piggybacking off of what I made.

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Yeah, I mean I think what's I don't know, ironic's

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the proper word here, But just like intriguing is that

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SGE gave the playbook away. And you know, if you

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are it's not an easy sort of switch to flip.

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But you know, if you want a counter the PSA,

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we're going to help make everything liquid after we grade it.

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Part of the equation which is a long part of

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the equation right now, because the key component there is degrading,

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equation is extending and so the windows are growing. Like,

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if you really want to shrink and improve liquidity for people,

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you get cards back to them as soon as you can.

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Like that's the ultimate way to improve liquidity is get

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people their money or their cards back as quickly as possible.

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And if you're sitting in the CGC or the you know,

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the Beckett seats and offices today, you know you try

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to think about, how do we really think about ways

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to improve our turnaround times? And one of the ways

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that SEC was able to do it very thoughtfully was

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to do these promotions which sort of really limited you're

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not seeing every football card come in the door. By

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doing a football promotion, you're not doing a vintage special,

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You're not doing a nineteen ninety special. You're doing these

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specials which are really narrow and allow your team to

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create a lot of the same cards and not have

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to spend as much time in the research and ID phase.

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And it's just you're grouping a lot of stuff together

240
00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:11.320
that makes sense. And so you know, I would love

241
00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:13.519
to see somebody lean into that playbook little bit more

242
00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:15.240
and really and you know, on the back end of that,

243
00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:18.480
then provide service that is sort of differentiated in our space.

244
00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:21.639
I think it's pretty well understood that it's just it's

245
00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:23.559
hard to have a conversation or real dialogue with a

246
00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:25.600
lot of companies in space. They've obviously tried to improve

247
00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:27.840
that over the years, but you know, it's just not

248
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:30.440
an open line of communication and one that companies really

249
00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:32.759
have put a lot of resources behind, including at the

250
00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:35.480
manufacturer level, and so to stand out there makes a

251
00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.559
difference and sort of it's something that people will really

252
00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:40.600
appreciate and help you sort of build a lot of

253
00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:42.799
brand loyalty. So I would love to see people lean

254
00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.159
into that playbook, which has already been established. It's just

255
00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:46.799
a bit of a you know, departure for some of

256
00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:49.159
these companies which haven't really operated. You know, again I

257
00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:51.399
mentioned a big hurdle there is graters. You have to

258
00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:53.200
sort of scale greaters and that's the part of the

259
00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:55.480
equation that's the hardest part of it. So it's how

260
00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:56.840
can you do it sort of in a way that

261
00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:59.600
allows you with the existing resources to make that happen,

262
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:02.080
or to you know, even do something that's a little

263
00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:03.679
bit more focused, like, hey, you're going to be a

264
00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:05.840
greater paternally going to be a great for a specific

265
00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:07.960
you know, five sets for a little while as we

266
00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.279
sort of do promotions. But poibeing is it's I think

267
00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:12.240
there's a lot of opportunity there and I do think

268
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.240
you know, PSA is just a big company at the stage.

269
00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:15.840
They're doing a lot of great things, but there's a

270
00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:17.759
lot of opportunity to chip away at what they've done

271
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:19.360
and build on it because there's a lot of people

272
00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:22.200
that are unhappy with what they're providing to the hobby

273
00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:23.840
today and they're doing a lot of great stuff, but

274
00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:25.320
you're just never going to have all the answers. There's

275
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:27.720
so many different people on so many with different perspectives

276
00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:30.200
and different journeys throughout this hobby. You can't service all

277
00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:32.399
the needs, and so there's an opportunity for somebody to

278
00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:35.159
at least a company, if not a couple, you know,

279
00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:37.440
to thrive as well. I think. And you saw that

280
00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.240
as you see, had a fantastic outcome from where they were,

281
00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:42.039
right just by being the number two player. You don't

282
00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:44.600
have to be number one to yield a good return

283
00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:46.840
for your owners or your investors, or whoever it is.

284
00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:49.200
And so there's certainly opportunities for a lot of companies

285
00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:49.679
in the space.

286
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:52.960
And as big as PSA is, and you know this, right,

287
00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:56.720
I'm preaching to the choir here, and they are number one.

288
00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:59.960
That's not really debatable. There are people you've heard of,

289
00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:03.240
were read, there are people who just don't like them,

290
00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:05.679
and like, I'm not giving my card. I know they're

291
00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:09.440
the number one, but for my reasons, whether they're personal

292
00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:12.919
or I'm just not giving them, I'm not adding to

293
00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:17.240
their their number one. This I'm going in a different direction.

294
00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:20.600
And and granted you can say that every company, right,

295
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:23.480
someone's gonna say I'm not sending SGC or I'd never

296
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.799
send the Beckett again or anymore or ever, you know,

297
00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:30.799
but for so for even for being number one, that

298
00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:35.240
doesn't mean everyone loves them. They have their their detractors

299
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:37.320
as well. And I you know, you kind of pointed

300
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.879
out on that you mentioned them earlier and the rumor

301
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.639
I heard, I don't know, I'm assuming you heard it

302
00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:49.840
before the whole Collectors acquired SGC actually went down. I heard,

303
00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:54.840
you know, the whispers that Fanatics was trying to acquire SGC,

304
00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:59.480
and as a as a lover of SGC, that was

305
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:03.320
something I was definitely you know, someone else had heard

306
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:06.200
it and they know my feelings about SGC, and they

307
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:08.919
called me up and said, John, what would you think

308
00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:12.159
about that? And I said, I'll be very candid. It's

309
00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:15.120
not a secret. Like if that was to happen, that

310
00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:18.240
would be the end of my relationship with the brand

311
00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:22.600
SGC had Fanatics acquired them. And here's where I come.

312
00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.799
And you're a collector as well, Ryan, so I'll get

313
00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:29.799
your stand. But here's here's why I felt so strongly

314
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:32.159
about that and still do. Like if something and this

315
00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:35.600
goes for any company, you know, SGC was just sort

316
00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:39.519
of mentioned or that was the rumor. But if Fanatics

317
00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:42.759
ever bought a grading card company and existing one or

318
00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:46.960
even started their own, I would have no relationship with

319
00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:50.159
that because I just view that as a huge conflict

320
00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:53.320
of interest that you would grade your Not only are

321
00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:57.519
you grading your own produced cards in a sense, you're

322
00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:04.039
also then potentially grading your your competition's products as well.

323
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:06.919
It would you know, it just doesn't sit well with

324
00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:10.039
me or sit right way. So like, had that deal

325
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:13.200
went down when it was kind of whispered and rumored,

326
00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:16.480
which I'm glad it didn't, because that would have been

327
00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:20.080
the end of my relationship with SGC as a folk suburb,

328
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:22.960
as a sponsor, it would you know, that would have

329
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.720
been in It would have been sad because I like it.

330
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.960
So you know, when that news broke that it was

331
00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.320
Collectors that had acquired you know, it was sort of

332
00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.320
bittersweet too, right. I was glad it wasn't Fanatics, but

333
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:40.879
then it was like, oh man, you know, it's that's

334
00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:44.360
that's tough too. You know, kind of your thoughts on

335
00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:48.519
fanatics if they were to get into the grading space,

336
00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:53.039
whether that's acquired an existing company and absorbing them that way,

337
00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:56.639
or just building a new building and said hey, we're

338
00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:57.679
fanatics grading.

339
00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:00.039
Yeah, I mean it's tough. I think you're seeing it

340
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.679
all over the hobby right now, which is it's just

341
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:05.720
for better or worse. The hobby's in a really great place,

342
00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:07.720
and that's just for the better for the most part here.

343
00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:09.680
But you know, you're still seeing a lot of people

344
00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:13.279
who are trying to recover from raising too much money

345
00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:15.519
or sort of being overvalued a few years ago, and

346
00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:17.359
so ultimately they're still trying. They're in like prove a

347
00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:20.119
mode in my mind, and so people are willing to

348
00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:23.279
tow lines that under sort of a best case scenario,

349
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:25.720
they would avoid. And so what I mean by that is,

350
00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:28.519
you know, you have companies like Arena Club who grade

351
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:30.599
their own cards and then put them into slab packs.

352
00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:33.200
You have PSA who grades cards and then buys cards

353
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:35.720
back through offers like again, these are these are fine

354
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:37.880
sort of if you understand the ins and outs of

355
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.599
how they're sort of preventing there to be true conflicts

356
00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:43.880
or what they might do to sort of eliminate or

357
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.480
minimize conflicts. And I think that Fanatics was willing to

358
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:49.839
sort of step and toe that line as well, if

359
00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:52.400
that was sort of really realistically, like what happened there

360
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:55.599
is sort of a scenario that was you know, almost

361
00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:58.240
likely to play out. And so I think the challenge

362
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:00.480
from a hobby standpoint is we all of the person

363
00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.279
pate and you know, we we sort of find you know,

364
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:06.359
we put our own boundaries in place. And I do

365
00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:08.960
think like ultimately, like a fanatics would have been fine

366
00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:11.680
had they done something like that, right, I think people would.

367
00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:15.440
It would have frustrated somebody like yourself, and that does

368
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:17.720
sort of put them at long term risk, right, but

369
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:20.000
the near term sort of juice was worth the squeeze

370
00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:23.000
in the in sort of what they could benefit from

371
00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.599
from a revenue standpoint, or from a product standpoint, or

372
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:28.279
from an integration standpoint. And so, you know, I do

373
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:29.680
think there's and I think we're seeing that all over

374
00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:31.240
the place. I just think, like I just mentioned a

375
00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:33.319
couple companies in a space who are doing really well

376
00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:35.319
and are willing to tow that line, and it's because

377
00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:37.880
they're still just trying to sort of again prove out

378
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.759
this story for one reason or another, and they're ultimately

379
00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:43.839
like bigger picture stories that we don't were as collectors

380
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:46.160
or flippers or whoever you are, in the seats that

381
00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:48.720
we're in, we don't hear the board meetings about why

382
00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:51.400
they're doing what they're doing. But usually it's much bigger

383
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:54.799
than what we realize, and there's ultimately stories being told

384
00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:56.839
that are not relevant to our day to days but

385
00:18:56.920 --> 00:18:59.160
matter to these companies. And so I do think like

386
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:01.759
it was realists that that was something that was under consideration.

387
00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:03.359
I do think it would have, you know, rubbed a

388
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:04.759
lot of people the wrong way. I do think it

389
00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:06.559
would have been fine for fanatics at the end of

390
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:08.400
the day too, and it still could be fine for

391
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:11.200
them ultimately, because you know, there are limited ways to

392
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:12.599
participate in this hobby and these are some of the

393
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:14.920
biggest players we're talking about, and so you know, if

394
00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:17.359
you want to be you can you know, hold the

395
00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:21.079
line and not buy from certain companies or not work

396
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:24.599
with certain companies. But usually, you know, just the way

397
00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:26.839
this hobby works is that the momentum will continue forward

398
00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:29.880
with those companies. It's not you know, enough inertia to

399
00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:33.200
prevent problems and so or to cause problems. And so

400
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:35.680
you know, you're kind of wearing it as a part

401
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:37.400
of your identity and that's fine. That's a lot of

402
00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:39.599
what collecting is and sort of what we do, but

403
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:41.680
it doesn't force a lot of change in our hobby unfortunately,

404
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.000
because people sort of move to where the dollars go

405
00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:46.480
and flow, and so, you know, I think it it

406
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:47.960
would have been interesting. I don't think it would have

407
00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:49.480
got a lot of push back, but ultimately I think

408
00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:51.839
it would have been fine, which is unfortunately what happens

409
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:53.599
a lot of times. And I I mean unfortunately from

410
00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:55.880
the standpoint of, like I wish there was bigger picture

411
00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.000
sort of pieces being put in place or safeguards put

412
00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:01.880
in place that would you know, not sort of represent

413
00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:06.200
this constant sort of you know, prove it mentality that's

414
00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:08.680
in the hobby or sort of this money grab that's

415
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.079
in the hobby today. So it's a challenge, but it's

416
00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:13.079
one that at least I think people are aware of.

417
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:14.599
And you know, it's again where you sort of put

418
00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:16.200
your own personal boundaries in place and you can talk

419
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:18.119
about it and you can sort of you know, speak

420
00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:20.160
to that stance and sort of try to help people

421
00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:22.400
understand why that's the case. But it just it's unfortunately,

422
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:23.960
just has like a little impact on the day to

423
00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:25.599
day of what these companies do.

424
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:28.880
Yeah, you know, as well as I do, right hobbyists

425
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:34.160
have short memories. Rights something negative breaks and everyone talks

426
00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:37.079
about it seems for like a week to ten days,

427
00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:40.400
and then it just fizzles sort of right out and

428
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:43.920
then we uh, some people not everyone paying with a broadbrush,

429
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.599
but uh, some people will will forget about it and like,

430
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:50.799
like you said, go where the money sort of goes.

431
00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:53.599
And you know, for me, I and again I can

432
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.480
only speak for myself, that would have been a sad

433
00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:58.920
day and a deal breaker, like the whole kind of

434
00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:03.839
like my memory wouldn't be short there unfortunately or unfortunately,

435
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:05.920
depending on how you look at that would have been

436
00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:08.880
uh something I would have. You know, I just I

437
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:13.440
don't believe like you should be grading your own products

438
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.279
on a larger scale, like I know you mentioned someone

439
00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:19.160
like the p s A or some buybacks and different

440
00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:23.039
things along those lines. Repacks are what they are, and

441
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:28.039
you know arenegrading is not on the same level. They

442
00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:30.039
might not like to hear me say that, but that's

443
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:33.160
the way to some of these other companies we've already

444
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.160
talked about. So you know, I just don't want to

445
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:38.599
see a major player, let me put it that way,

446
00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:43.759
like grading their own products and also grading their their competitor.

447
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:47.279
Now they can say, hey, we you know, we're doing

448
00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:50.759
it in a in a sense, uh you know, fairly

449
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:54.680
and with equality, and we don't care. You know, if

450
00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:57.359
if if it's a Panini card and it's a ten,

451
00:21:57.480 --> 00:21:59.920
and it's a Panini card, that's a ten, they can

452
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:02.400
say all the right things. I just it wouldn't sit

453
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:04.920
well with me. And I guess what I'm saying is

454
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:08.200
I probably wouldn't be buying it, maybe as much as

455
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.799
other people might be less, you know, a little more

456
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:14.960
forgiving of it. I would that would just my moral state,

457
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:18.680
whatever my moral standard level is, that one would cross

458
00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:20.359
the end for me.

459
00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:23.480
It's time for a quick break. Thoughts will be right.

460
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:29.079
Spag Iron Sports Cards is your number one source for

461
00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:32.400
all your PSA and other grading submissions. Their elite status

462
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:35.680
improves turnaround times. Heck, they even provide the card savers.

463
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:38.799
Their chap rooms provide updates on all your submissions. They

464
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.480
also offer wax options and single cards to cover all

465
00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:44.480
the bases. Check them out on Facebook at Iron Sportscards

466
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:47.519
Group or on the web at Ironsportscards dot com, or

467
00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:50.480
even give them a call at one eight seven seven

468
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:53.799
I R O N. P SA. Rob's got you covered.

469
00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:59.599
Thanks for sticking with us. Let's return to the show.

470
00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:07.440
I heard you mentioned it earlier, right, like, and you

471
00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.400
hear this, this three word term thrown around, the junk

472
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.200
slab error, We have the junk wax error. Uh, now

473
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:17.519
we have the junk slab all right. I can tell you,

474
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.880
you know, as being a folk suburb, right, some of

475
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:23.920
the stuff that comes through, you know, you know, it's

476
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.279
not my card, and people can grade whatever they want,

477
00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:30.799
but you know, sometimes it's there's some head scratching cards

478
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:34.000
if you will, uh, you know we're seeing uh you

479
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:39.240
know your reports h illustrate, there's no shortage of cards

480
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:42.920
getting graded. So your kind of take on the jug

481
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:48.599
junk slab error, you know, connotation is it? Are we

482
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:51.599
seeing it? Are we in it? Is it something that's

483
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:55.079
even gonna be a bigger issue? If you will? Like

484
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:57.720
where where do you you know? Where do you stand

485
00:23:58.240 --> 00:23:59.160
when you hear those?

486
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.960
So I definitely think that we're in It's nuanced. But

487
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.720
I was calling a junk parallel era because I think

488
00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:10.079
it's just another level of that, which is parallels have

489
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:13.720
made people comfortable grading cards that are not base cards.

490
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:16.799
But there are many of these parallels are just glorified

491
00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.480
based cards. Ultimately, like the hobby will not value them

492
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:22.359
in the long run. There's sort of things that we're

493
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:24.839
seeing stand out now which are being you know, valued

494
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.640
sort of accordingly and maybe effectively too much at this

495
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:32.519
stage and what we're seeing witnessing over the last few months.

496
00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:34.680
But I do think that it's made people comfortable that

497
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:36.799
just because it's not a base card, it's going to

498
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.799
sort of pull value over the long run. And ultimately,

499
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:43.200
what we have is a ton of parallels that look

500
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:47.440
the same and or are you know, hardly differentiated, and

501
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:50.119
our hard to understand is really like the significance or

502
00:24:50.200 --> 00:24:52.440
role they might why they might actually you know, sustain

503
00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:55.119
or have meaning to somebody in the long run. One

504
00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:57.000
of the things that the manufacturers have been horrible at,

505
00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.599
and you know, they were good at it ten years ago,

506
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:01.519
sort of lost sight of and now Tops is trying

507
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:02.599
to do it, but they're sort of doing it in

508
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:05.119
a way that's catering towards that the high end collector

509
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:07.319
a lot of times. But it's just been really poor

510
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:09.640
storytellers of what they're building and why they're building it.

511
00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:11.759
And so if you want to put one hundred parallels51200:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.119



in the market by all means, do it, but let51300:25:14.200 --> 00:25:16.079



us know how you got there, let us know what51400:25:16.240 --> 00:25:18.319



you were thinking, why you were thinking that, why it51500:25:18.319 --> 00:25:21.759



should matter to us like we Otherwise you're literally just saying, hey,51600:25:21.880 --> 00:25:24.559



we're pulling another one over. You see in ten years51700:25:24.599 --> 00:25:27.000



when you realize that this was us getting ya again.51800:25:27.359 --> 00:25:29.240



And so, you know, I kind of see that as51900:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.240



the reality that we're in right now. And again, all52000:25:32.279 --> 00:25:34.720



it's doing is sort of flowing through to the grading52100:25:34.759 --> 00:25:36.480



companies in a way that people are like, Okay, well52200:25:36.680 --> 00:25:38.480



this has a number on it, so I probably should52300:25:38.519 --> 00:25:40.640



send it in, or it looks different than the base card,52400:25:40.839 --> 00:25:42.799



I should probably send it in. So the difference between52500:25:42.799 --> 00:25:44.720



what we were seeing four years ago is that people52600:25:44.799 --> 00:25:47.119



were grading a ton of base cards. Fortunately, people are52700:25:47.160 --> 00:25:50.480



not grading base cards. You know, air quotes here because52800:25:50.839 --> 00:25:52.640



they are not base cards. But the way the hobby52900:25:52.839 --> 00:25:55.279



was going to treat these is sort of glorified base cards,53000:25:55.599 --> 00:25:57.200



you know, ten years down the line, because they don't53100:25:57.240 --> 00:25:59.279



really mean or stand for much. And so I do53200:25:59.359 --> 00:26:01.359



think we're in a parallel era, which is leading to53300:26:01.440 --> 00:26:03.480



junk wax, which is leading to you know, just people53400:26:03.559 --> 00:26:07.319



overvaluing a lot of cards that are being manufactured today,53500:26:07.319 --> 00:26:09.240



which is again no different. It just looks different, but53600:26:09.240 --> 00:26:11.000



it's not going to feel any different ten years from noo.53700:26:11.200 --> 00:26:15.279



Yeah, I agree pretty much verbatim for what he's well said.53800:26:15.400 --> 00:26:18.759



And I'm a base card guy. I love a nice53900:26:19.119 --> 00:26:21.400



rookie card, whether it be out of you know, TOPS54000:26:21.480 --> 00:26:25.640



Update or TOPS Flagship. You know, I grew up with those,54100:26:25.720 --> 00:26:29.119



and so they always have a soft spot in my54200:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.319



heart for those. And you know we can get We're54300:26:32.359 --> 00:26:34.720



not going to go down that road, Ryan, I'm not54400:26:34.799 --> 00:26:36.839



going to take you there, but you know, the whole54500:26:37.319 --> 00:26:42.559



real scarcity versus artificial scarcit debate and that sort of things.54600:26:42.640 --> 00:26:45.599



That's why I lean vintage. I do collect. I don't54700:26:45.640 --> 00:26:47.759



want to make it sound I'm one hundred percent vintage,54800:26:47.799 --> 00:26:51.640



but I lean more that way because you know, those54900:26:51.720 --> 00:26:55.599



cards aren't being made anymore and they're not numbered, and55000:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.880



we know there's there's not a prevalence necessarily, especially when55100:27:00.160 --> 00:27:04.319



compare it the way cards are are produced today. You55200:27:04.400 --> 00:27:06.799



know someone I get asked a lot about and I55300:27:06.920 --> 00:27:12.319



know she's obviously on your your list a lot, right, Uh.55400:27:12.680 --> 00:27:16.880



Caitlin Clark w NBA superstar. You know, I've heard her55500:27:17.240 --> 00:27:20.480



and I don't think it's it's a far off comparison55600:27:20.599 --> 00:27:22.960



as you might initially think. You know, I've heard her55700:27:23.640 --> 00:27:27.839



be compared to like the Michael Jordan of women's basketball55800:27:28.440 --> 00:27:31.359



and you know, kind of changing the hobby and the55900:27:31.440 --> 00:27:35.200



game on on that level. Uh. And I agree, you know,56000:27:35.440 --> 00:27:39.960



I know she's battling some injuries here, especially this this season.56100:27:41.359 --> 00:27:45.480



She's obviously uber talented. No one can argue with that.56200:27:46.119 --> 00:27:50.480



No shortage of her cards being graded and and that's56300:27:50.599 --> 00:27:54.559



my argument to to that is just the the amount56400:27:54.680 --> 00:27:58.519



of cards that are are produced of her, including a56500:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.920



set that was just an all Caitlyn Clark set, and56600:28:02.079 --> 00:28:06.759



there's just no shortage of you know, so you know56700:28:07.440 --> 00:28:09.839



someone you know, I always get asked, especially at my56800:28:09.960 --> 00:28:13.279



SGC table, hey, hey, knew, when you think I should56900:28:13.759 --> 00:28:16.319



grade Dez and Nez and what do you think about these?57000:28:16.680 --> 00:28:20.079



And Caitlyn Clark obviously isn't a lot of those stacks.57100:28:20.119 --> 00:28:22.680



And it's always when it comes to Caitlin Clark, I57200:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.599



always tell the person like, that's you know, beauty's in57300:28:25.640 --> 00:28:28.279



the ie beholder, that's a card you want and Capsuley57400:28:28.720 --> 00:28:32.079



that's that's up to you. And again with the numbers57500:28:32.119 --> 00:28:36.079



you're seeing and just her placing the hobby, Like what's57600:28:36.160 --> 00:28:39.519



your sort of view of Caitlin Clark as far as57700:28:40.079 --> 00:28:43.160



just everything kind of rolled into one, like the amount57800:28:44.000 --> 00:28:47.359



produced of her cards, the different sets like you said,57900:28:47.480 --> 00:28:50.519



subsets and parallel is you know, I see stuff and58000:28:50.599 --> 00:28:53.279



I'm like, I don't even know what that is. I58100:28:53.480 --> 00:28:55.920



have to look it up, and I'm I'm sent up58200:28:55.960 --> 00:28:59.359



at two shows a month. Just the sort of you're58300:28:59.440 --> 00:29:03.200



kind of your take her place in the hobby and58400:29:03.319 --> 00:29:05.440



even yeah, I mean.58500:29:05.440 --> 00:29:07.799



One thing that you come to realize and I don't58600:29:07.839 --> 00:29:09.480



know that here at articulate this way too often, but58700:29:09.519 --> 00:29:11.319



it's kind of it's a power law hobby in the58800:29:11.400 --> 00:29:15.039



sense that you know, the outliers, the extreme outliers are58900:29:15.079 --> 00:29:17.799



the ones that sort of recognize almost all the gains59000:29:17.880 --> 00:29:19.559



ultimately the long run of this hobby, Like there's in59100:29:19.599 --> 00:29:22.440



between areas obviously, like that's a little bit of you know,59200:29:22.640 --> 00:29:28.039



an extreme positioning there, but ultimately people view her as59300:29:28.119 --> 00:29:29.839



that you know, this is not the right analog, but59400:29:29.880 --> 00:29:32.000



you know it's kind of like a chat TPT comes59500:29:32.000 --> 00:29:33.359



in and you're an investor and you say like, hey,59600:29:33.440 --> 00:29:36.119



here's somebody who might change how the paradigm or the59700:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.400



landscape of how we think about things. And that's sort59800:29:38.440 --> 00:29:40.599



of Kaitlin Clark to the average collector or people who59900:29:40.599 --> 00:29:42.839



are looking to put money into somebody where there might60000:29:42.920 --> 00:29:45.279



have those power law returns, which is, this is somebody60100:29:45.279 --> 00:29:49.880



who transcends sports, who's going to mean something across many generations,60200:29:50.240 --> 00:29:54.160



and that will ultimately, you know, play out in the60300:29:54.240 --> 00:29:57.440



sense that our cards will hopefully hold value and beyond60400:29:57.480 --> 00:29:59.920



that gain value, right a crew value. So I think60500:30:00.200 --> 00:30:01.720



I think it's fine. I think it's fair. I actually60600:30:01.759 --> 00:30:04.559



think that's like appropriate. But what happens and I'm you know,60700:30:04.640 --> 00:30:06.799



I come from many years of startup world, is you60800:30:06.920 --> 00:30:09.480



place those bets knowing that, But there's a huge risk60900:30:09.599 --> 00:30:12.279



associated with that as well, which is you just might61000:30:12.319 --> 00:30:14.319



have picked the wrong player. You might have picked the61100:30:14.359 --> 00:30:16.839



wrong game to play or the market to be in,61200:30:17.039 --> 00:30:20.119



and so you know, there's massive risk there. Even slowly61300:30:20.160 --> 00:30:22.400



start to see a little bit more favor flow to61400:30:22.519 --> 00:30:25.640



like Paige Becker's right now because Kaitlyn's not playing and61500:30:25.720 --> 00:30:27.880



her stats were sort of don't represent sort of the61600:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.319



what she stands for. But ultimately that might not matter.61700:30:30.440 --> 00:30:32.400



I mean, you know, I'm close with Adam Gray, and61800:30:32.440 --> 00:30:35.440



he always speaks about like the cultural relevance outweighing sort61900:30:35.480 --> 00:30:39.000



of the performance players have. And it's pretty hard to62000:30:39.079 --> 00:30:42.200



sort of make an argument against for what Kaitlyn Clark62100:30:42.200 --> 00:30:45.200



has already done for college basketball and for the WNBA.62200:30:45.440 --> 00:30:48.400



And even if she does not have a career that62300:30:48.759 --> 00:30:50.759



you know, she doesn't have the age of Wilson career62400:30:50.839 --> 00:30:54.039



of you know, many MVPs and just doesn't have sort62500:30:54.079 --> 00:30:57.000



of the titles to you know, reflect sort of who62600:30:57.119 --> 00:30:59.279



she is as a player. The character and sort of62700:30:59.319 --> 00:31:01.640



what she stands for might sort of mean far more62800:31:01.720 --> 00:31:04.799



to the hobby, to that league and ultimate what people62900:31:04.839 --> 00:31:07.839



care about and how they sort of you know, you know,63000:31:08.240 --> 00:31:10.599



vote with their dollars ultimately. So I think it's fair.63100:31:10.680 --> 00:31:13.279



I think it's interesting. You know, it's challenging to know.63200:31:13.359 --> 00:31:15.119



That's one of the reasons we're doing that eBay report63300:31:15.200 --> 00:31:17.200



now because I want people to understand like how much63400:31:17.240 --> 00:31:20.160



money is going into kiln Clark like relative.63500:31:19.839 --> 00:31:20.240



To what we know.63600:31:20.359 --> 00:31:22.680



Like one of the the ultimate metric that I'd love63700:31:22.720 --> 00:31:24.599



to bring to market one day is like what does63800:31:24.640 --> 00:31:26.200



it mean for this much money to be spent on63900:31:26.240 --> 00:31:28.279



a player for somebody's cards to be prices high? Does64000:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.640



it mean that she has to win four championships and64100:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.559



four MVPs? Like, is that actually what's being valued in this?64200:31:33.680 --> 00:31:35.640



Like what does mahomes market mean today? Is that sort64300:31:35.680 --> 00:31:37.640



of price? You know, that's subjective, it's never going to64400:31:37.680 --> 00:31:39.480



be a science, but it's just something that I like64500:31:39.599 --> 00:31:41.119



to be a part of the discussion, which is just like,64600:31:41.480 --> 00:31:43.200



you know, what do their values? What needs to happen64700:31:43.279 --> 00:31:45.400



for them to actually achieve that value or sort of64800:31:45.400 --> 00:31:48.039



support that value that's being you know, at a card64900:31:48.119 --> 00:31:49.920



level or at a market level. And so I think65000:31:49.960 --> 00:31:52.599



Kaitlin Clark's a fascinating story. I do think it's warranted65100:31:52.680 --> 00:31:54.680



for people to be doing what they're doing there. But65200:31:54.880 --> 00:31:56.279



you know, there's a ton of risk. You know, there's65300:31:56.319 --> 00:31:57.240



certain no certainty there.65400:31:57.640 --> 00:32:00.880



Yeah, and cheef represent Like I'm glad you said that65500:32:01.000 --> 00:32:05.920



she's represented herself well. Some some other competitors have sort65600:32:05.960 --> 00:32:09.279



of taken their shots at her, some cheap, maybe some65700:32:09.519 --> 00:32:13.359



not as cheap, And I think she's she's she's handled65800:32:13.400 --> 00:32:16.240



it pretty well in sort of a rope to at65900:32:16.319 --> 00:32:19.160



least in my opinion, sort of a role model, even66000:32:19.240 --> 00:32:23.079



in just that respect alone. Obviously, when she's on the court,66100:32:23.319 --> 00:32:27.359



she's a terrific player and a teammate from from all66200:32:27.480 --> 00:32:31.240



reports and everything you read in here. So I think66300:32:31.279 --> 00:32:35.279



as long as she plays, but she's already made, you know,66400:32:35.720 --> 00:32:39.079



she could probably never play another basketball game again, Ryan,66500:32:39.440 --> 00:32:43.440



and we'll still talk about her in some some respect66600:32:43.480 --> 00:32:47.480



in regard, like you said, the cultural significance that that66700:32:47.640 --> 00:32:51.240



already sort of been established, and all the stats are66800:32:51.880 --> 00:32:55.599



like just on top of that, the cherry on top66900:32:55.680 --> 00:32:59.000



of that. And you can't say that about every player.67000:32:59.079 --> 00:33:01.759



That actually can say that about very few players, But67100:33:01.880 --> 00:33:05.920



I think she definitely falls into that category, you know,67200:33:06.440 --> 00:33:09.480



And maybe that's where the Michael Jordan comparisons, Like we67300:33:09.640 --> 00:33:12.960



still talk about Jordan to this day, and he hasn't67400:33:13.000 --> 00:33:17.200



played in many many moons, right, and he's still significant,67500:33:17.240 --> 00:33:20.680



whether it's through Nike and the brand and the sneakers,67600:33:20.839 --> 00:33:24.039



the last Dance air in a few years back, and67700:33:24.519 --> 00:33:27.400



even kids today, Like I'm I'm in the teaching profession,67800:33:27.839 --> 00:33:31.240



there's kids today who who are in my class that67900:33:31.319 --> 00:33:36.039



were born after he retired. He wasn't even playing, uh born,68000:33:36.119 --> 00:33:38.559



he was done playing. Who know, who Michael Jordan is.68100:33:39.039 --> 00:33:42.599



Very few people who probably don't know who Michael Jordan is.68200:33:42.720 --> 00:33:47.559



So and and there's certain athletes that just check those boxes,68300:33:47.559 --> 00:33:50.839



and she's starting to check a lot of those in68400:33:50.960 --> 00:33:54.359



most of them. Uh and and pretty quick, pretty quickly.68500:33:54.640 --> 00:33:59.000



So you know, I hear the comparisons, and you know,68600:33:59.039 --> 00:34:01.920



when you first hear that, like you think it's crazy,68700:34:02.039 --> 00:34:04.839



But then when you look at some of these intangibles68800:34:04.920 --> 00:34:08.639



and variables, like, it's not as crazy as you think,68900:34:08.800 --> 00:34:11.679



especially if you don't count titles yet as part of69000:34:11.760 --> 00:34:16.440



those comparisons, they're sort of they sort of make sense.69100:34:16.519 --> 00:34:19.480



And uh, it's gonna be interesting to see she's really69200:34:19.960 --> 00:34:23.760



in the the early innings, if you will, of her career.69300:34:24.119 --> 00:34:26.360



Uh you know, we're the first quarter for what the69400:34:26.960 --> 00:34:30.320



basketball terms, right of her career. And if she can69500:34:30.800 --> 00:34:33.000



she can stay healthy and maybe there's a couple of69600:34:33.199 --> 00:34:37.079



w NBA titles in the cards for I mean, that's69700:34:37.199 --> 00:34:41.360



that's those are significant impacts and factor to come. So69800:34:42.239 --> 00:34:45.679



that book is not is very it's the early chapters69900:34:45.719 --> 00:34:49.320



are being written. There's a lot more potentially uh to go,70000:34:49.639 --> 00:34:53.400



and so it's it'll be interesting, uh, and we'll see70100:34:53.400 --> 00:34:55.480



where that sort of winds up.70200:34:55.800 --> 00:34:57.800



I think it's one of the most exciting parts of70300:34:57.840 --> 00:34:59.639



our hobby. When we're sort of our eyes are opened70400:34:59.719 --> 00:35:02.760



up to another something that we sort of dismissed as70500:35:02.800 --> 00:35:06.400



being insignificant becomes increasingly significant, which is Kalen Clark or70600:35:06.400 --> 00:35:09.360



it's pall schemes. You know, pictures were something that we're70700:35:09.400 --> 00:35:11.559



ignored for years, and then all of a sudden, now70800:35:11.599 --> 00:35:15.239



people are reconsidering Kalen Clark has made women's sports much70900:35:15.320 --> 00:35:18.199



more on the radar again, which is awesome to see. Anyways,71000:35:18.199 --> 00:35:20.320



I just I like one sort of we're challenged, that's why.71100:35:20.400 --> 00:35:21.599



And I personally love to do it from my own71200:35:21.599 --> 00:35:24.199



collecting standpoint, like what what is sort of something that71300:35:24.280 --> 00:35:26.920



sort of understood today that could change five years from now.71400:35:27.000 --> 00:35:28.280



And that's where I sort of like to put my71500:35:28.760 --> 00:35:31.280



money at times. And so I love that because I71600:35:31.320 --> 00:35:32.480



just think that's a beauty of it. It's a very71700:35:32.559 --> 00:35:35.760



narrative driven hobby and you know it could it could71800:35:35.800 --> 00:35:36.559



change really quickly.71900:35:36.880 --> 00:35:40.400



Yeah, and again it's again great point by you, right that,72000:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.199



And we love the debate, right We love to compare72100:35:44.400 --> 00:35:47.840



players from the same error, from one error to another,72200:35:48.760 --> 00:35:53.280



from from across you know, Jordan to Caitlin, who are72300:35:53.440 --> 00:35:58.159



obviously male and female, same sport. And you know, it's72400:35:59.000 --> 00:36:01.719



I think it's human nature. We like to kind of72500:36:01.800 --> 00:36:04.880



pick a stance and then defend it or say why72600:36:05.000 --> 00:36:07.840



we're right and why someone's wrong. And as long as72700:36:07.880 --> 00:36:10.039



it's done tactfully, that's fun, right, a long as it72800:36:10.119 --> 00:36:13.760



doesn't cross lines it becomes personal and people don't get72900:36:13.840 --> 00:36:19.159



that vicious or animosity about it. It's always fun to73000:36:19.280 --> 00:36:22.280



have those debates. And and it's a great point, right,73100:36:22.559 --> 00:36:25.639



what she's done, not just her, but she's really sort73200:36:25.639 --> 00:36:28.960



of the face right, what she's done for the women's73300:36:29.039 --> 00:36:32.519



side of the hobby. Uh, and collectors and you go73400:36:32.679 --> 00:36:35.400



to the National and as you I'm not saying just73500:36:35.480 --> 00:36:39.159



because of her, but just in general, you're seeing more73600:36:39.199 --> 00:36:42.760



women collectors. You're seeing more women dealers, which is great73700:36:42.840 --> 00:36:46.920



to see. We're seeing more women in the corporate spots73800:36:47.239 --> 00:36:50.320



of the hobby. So it's refreshing to see. I think73900:36:50.360 --> 00:36:53.679



it's important, and I think that trend needs to continue74000:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.400



along those lines. And uh, you know it's like when74100:36:57.519 --> 00:37:01.440



Jordan's first hit the scene, right, he brought a lot74200:37:01.519 --> 00:37:05.960



of people into the basketball hobby, that weren't collectors before.74300:37:06.119 --> 00:37:09.840



So there's again another comparison that could be made sort74400:37:09.920 --> 00:37:13.559



of between both of those athletes right there in a74500:37:13.639 --> 00:37:18.280



good sort of way. So but listen, I appreciate you74600:37:18.440 --> 00:37:23.679



coming back again. Way too long between appearances. I promise,74700:37:23.880 --> 00:37:26.079



if it's up to me, it won't. It won't be74800:37:26.280 --> 00:37:30.639



such next time. But uh, I always give the guests74900:37:30.679 --> 00:37:34.840



sort of the closing words. Give out the websites where75000:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.960



people can see what you and Generate are doing. Uh,75100:37:39.119 --> 00:37:41.400



and get on board if they're not already we are,75200:37:41.599 --> 00:37:44.440



but uh, you know, share put any of that. Take75300:37:44.480 --> 00:37:47.840



your time with everyone to get out there, to direct75400:37:47.920 --> 00:37:48.639



anybody too.75500:37:49.000 --> 00:37:50.920



Well, Now, thank you. I appreciate you having me on again.75600:37:51.199 --> 00:37:54.320



I know you're busy and whenever, whenever you need me,75700:37:54.360 --> 00:37:54.880



I'm here for you.75800:37:55.639 --> 00:37:58.760



Well, you're you're, you're, you're making more excuses for me75900:37:58.880 --> 00:38:01.440



than than I am. And I I appreciate that, Ryan,76000:38:01.519 --> 00:38:02.880



but it was it was my band.76100:38:03.000 --> 00:38:05.760



Thank you, No, we're good. Yeah, one other quick shout76200:38:05.760 --> 00:38:07.159



I don't want to give. I meant to mention it76300:38:07.199 --> 00:38:08.840



when I was talking about the eBay data things we're76400:38:08.840 --> 00:38:11.239



bringing to market, but you know, I exchange emails with76500:38:11.320 --> 00:38:13.079



doctor Beckett about this a few years ago, and I76600:38:13.239 --> 00:38:15.480



just want to hat tip to him because he was76700:38:15.599 --> 00:38:17.119



He and I have talked about sort of this concept76800:38:17.119 --> 00:38:18.519



of a hobby GDP and this may not be the76900:38:18.559 --> 00:38:20.039



way he envisioned it, but this is sort of my77000:38:20.119 --> 00:38:23.960



first foray into that, and anyways, I just think it's77100:38:23.960 --> 00:38:26.360



a really interesting concept. One of the most important things77200:38:26.400 --> 00:38:27.760



about sort of what we do and what we stand77300:38:27.800 --> 00:38:31.079



for is that feedback is extremely welcome. It's always I'm77400:38:31.159 --> 00:38:33.800



very grateful for you know, different perspectives and things that77500:38:33.800 --> 00:38:35.800



we could be thinking about. Wait, whether it's things you77600:38:35.960 --> 00:38:38.400



like or things you don't, But you can email me77700:38:38.440 --> 00:38:40.639



at Ryan at jemmy dot com. A lot of what77800:38:40.760 --> 00:38:43.519



we publish is on Instagram or Twitter. You can find77900:38:43.599 --> 00:38:46.360



us there and then sign up for the email. Sometimes78000:38:46.400 --> 00:38:49.639



we publish things only specific email, like that iconic tractor,78100:38:49.800 --> 00:38:51.440



So that's another good place to keep an out. And78200:38:51.440 --> 00:38:52.679



then I would say the last thing is we have78300:38:52.719 --> 00:38:55.199



a couple of new feature slash products we're going to78400:38:55.239 --> 00:38:57.320



be bringing a market over the next few months as well,78500:38:57.400 --> 00:38:58.880



so keeping it out for that.78600:38:59.280 --> 00:39:02.480



Well, let's do when those when those hit, when those78700:39:02.559 --> 00:39:04.840



hit the scene, let's we'll have you back on and78800:39:04.960 --> 00:39:08.840



we'll uh we'll plug and promotos and talk about them78900:39:08.920 --> 00:39:11.280



and some other stuff too. And I'm sure in a79000:39:11.360 --> 00:39:14.320



few months there'll be plenty of new we won't be79100:39:14.400 --> 00:39:18.880



short of topics. That's especially in this space in the hobby,79200:39:19.159 --> 00:39:22.320



the hobby in general. Appreciate you, right, thank you, Thank79300:39:22.360 --> 00:39:24.599



you for all the you know, I don't know if79400:39:24.599 --> 00:39:26.920



you hear this enough, but you know, the hard work79500:39:27.320 --> 00:39:31.400



in getting that information uh to us and uh into79600:39:31.480 --> 00:39:35.280



the hobby. I think it's important whether you use it79700:39:35.440 --> 00:39:39.639



for financial or just you know, just want to see79800:39:39.679 --> 00:39:42.320



where kind of where trends are going and where the79900:39:42.480 --> 00:39:45.280



market is. And you know, you can never have too80000:39:45.400 --> 00:39:49.880



much information, you can have too little, right, So thank80100:39:49.960 --> 00:39:51.280



you for all you do.80200:39:51.760 --> 00:39:54.400



Thanks John much, appreciate it all right, take care.80300:39:55.000 --> 00:39:58.800



Awesome having Ryan back on the show, h And like80400:39:58.920 --> 00:40:02.400



I said, I promised we won't wait that long again80500:40:02.559 --> 00:40:06.519



to have him on. But you know, since we've been80600:40:06.599 --> 00:40:09.800



going to double episodes, we have less people on. It's80700:40:09.840 --> 00:40:15.119



a little trickier getting folks on, but we'll have them80800:40:15.199 --> 00:40:19.079



back on sooner the next time he's on. He's done80900:40:19.119 --> 00:40:22.960



a great job with gem rate and really important tool81000:40:24.360 --> 00:40:28.199



for the hobby now to really kind of monitor what's81100:40:28.280 --> 00:40:31.360



going on in the grading scale. And again, like I've81200:40:31.400 --> 00:40:34.840



always said, right, whether you like grading or not, whether81300:40:34.920 --> 00:40:39.440



you do grading or not, grading is a huge part81400:40:39.480 --> 00:40:43.840



of the hobby and it is a factor into you know,81500:40:44.039 --> 00:40:49.559



pricing and what things go on. So like it or not,81600:40:50.320 --> 00:40:54.360



it's it is what it is. So with that being said,81700:40:54.400 --> 00:40:57.880



we're gonna hear from our Hobby is the People Announcer81800:40:58.119 --> 00:41:01.320



of the Week and wrap up this week's episode.81900:41:02.519 --> 00:41:06.360



Time for our Hobby is the People Announcer of the Week.82000:41:09.400 --> 00:41:12.400



This is David Keppel. Remember the hobby is the people.82100:41:13.079 --> 00:41:15.239



If you'd like to be the Hobby is the People82200:41:15.280 --> 00:41:18.440



Announcer of the Week, do a one or MP three82300:41:18.519 --> 00:41:22.679



file and send it to Sportscard Nation PC at gmail82400:41:22.840 --> 00:41:23.360



dot com.