State of the Grading Space E232

0:01 Hobby not Quick Hits, delivering that breaking hobby news direct loaders. You want to know those hot Josh card shaft shaff. You've got your copy. Your host John new name name, Welcome Episode two thirty two of Hobby Quick Kits, UH and UH. I hope you enjoyed. You know, we did that three part special with the NFL Draft review with Dan de Tour. I hope you enjoyed that a little different.

0:42 UH. It's recording from his UH podcast and and UH radio show, but gave us permission to use it and figured why not. Right, It's it's you know, there is no off season UH in football. And we did the Q and A a couple of weeks back, but we're we're back on our hobby grind, if you will. And today's topic is definitely hot button in the hobby slash industry, right, and that's grating and the terrain and everything that's entailed, price increases, price levels being paused, you know, controversy, everything. We're going to really dive into it today. I've done these before, but it's been a while, so it's time to update sort of where we are in the grading landscape. And so that's what today's episode is going to tackle so, you know, full disclosure on a bolk suburb for SGC. So I come with a little bit of that angle as well.

1:55 Okay, Now a quick word from our great sponsor, followed by the new product release get Then we'll go around the hobby verse to tell you all the latest hobby happenings and news. Then we'll tackle today's topic of discussion. Hi, this is Pat Hughes, Cubs announcer, coming to you from the Sports Card Shop in beautiful New Buffalo, Michigan. The Gocher family has built an incredible place here for collectors to buy, sell, and trade cards and memorabilia. Be sure to stop buy and let them show you around the Sportscardshop dot com, connecting sports athletes, the hobby and collectors around the world.

2:37 Hi, this is Alan Pinkett and I'm here to tell you the Gocher family has done it again. They've just opened up the Sport Card Shop in downtown Valparaiso, Indiana, and it is awesome. If you're a collector, you need to check this place out. Tell them Alan sent you and get a free gift on your first visit. All right, let's go through the next couple weeks of hobby releases if you will not a busy couple weeks, just you know, a smattering of products. Let's go through them in order. Starting July first, twenty twenty six, Tops, Marvel Comics Chrome Blasters and Hobby the following day, July second, twenty five, Slash twenty six, Upper Deck Parkhurst Hockey going to the Thirdies are all from July third, twenty twenty six, Leaf Glory of the Game, Soccer twenty twenty six, Panini Donners, Elite Baseball, Pokemon Mega, Grinina Ex Premium Collection. Yeah, somehow I got through that. Staying on the third, twenty twenty six Wild Card, Matt Metal Soccer, Road to Glory. A lot of soccer products coming out. Wonder why. Some kind of big tournament going on July eighth, Star Trek, Voyager, Archives and Inscriptions. Staying on the eighth, the twenty twenty

4:10 six Tops Finest Baseball, The Delight Edition, Hobbies and Megas also on the eighth, the twenty twenty six Tops Marvel Comics Chrome Mega following day on the ninth, twenty twenty twenty twenty six Keepsake bon Jovi Tour Collection same day, twenty five Slash twenty six Tops Motif Basketball. Also twenty twenty five Slash twenty six Tops Pristine Premiers League Soccer. Also on the ninth, twenty twenty five, Slash twenty six Top Shuifa Club Competitions, Museum Collection Soccer, Hat trick and Hobby.

4:57 Also on the ninth, twenty twenty six Upper at Goodwin champions and three products to close out July tenth, twenty twenty six Leaf Metal Draft Edition Baseball, Hobby and Megas and twenty twenty five Tops Chrome Black Football actually two products rather than three, but two editions with the Metal Draft Baseball. So there you go. You know, twelve to fifteen. Products to choose and pick from choose wisely, Happy ripping. Let's go round the hobby verse and catch up on this week's hobby news.

5:38 And find out well hobby hobby news. I definitely feel like we need to talk about or mention yantas Anacopo is no longer Milwaukee's going to Miami in a trade deal. His brother was soon waived by Milwaukee is expected to sign with Miami. So one of the big guns in the NBA is got a new home. To South Beach, and obviously it's going to have a hobby impact. And I'll make the argument that this is the one of the biggest acquisitions for Miami, the second biggest acquisition for Miami since they acquired Sheck from the Lakers. And you say, well, John, what about Lebron? Where does Heat rank if you if you think this is the second biggest acquisition for the Heats franchise history. While we'll keep this in mind, they're getting, uh, you know, Giannis who has a ring. You know, when they signed Lebron, he didn't have a ring, and there was already a pretty decent supporting cast there. So Miami gave up a lot for him. So the cupboard is not as full as when Lebron went to Miami. But

7:10 it's gonna be interesting to see. You know, he does have that championship pedigree. I know things in Milwaukee have went south, no pun intended, So now he heads south from Milwaukee as they tried to rebuild with some of the stuff that they got from Miami and players and also in draft picks. All right, let's talk about cards. The biggest show in Northeast history. It's being billed at billed as July June twenty sixth and twenty eighth, so it's already happened at the time of this recording. But let's talk about it. Marlborough, Marlborough, Massachusetts, A thousand tables and fifty audis Graph guests, and that's that's kind of getting into national territory. Not exactly but pretty close. So congrats to those that have put her on. The show was over, but hopefully it went well for everybody involved.

8:17 All right, let's talk about another sports story. I lied, I said, we'll get into hobby hobby, but the World Cup ongoing obviously if you follow it. The United States team we'll make it into the knockout round and out of the group stage. They do have another game before the knockout round. They're two and oh and I believe I'm not sure they play next. I think I heard England. I don't know if that's true, but they're two and oh and doing doing pretty well obviously on North American soil with games here in the States, Canada and Mexico, and so it's nice to see, right and especially when it's kind of your home championship, if you will. Now, I don't think anyone expects them to hold up the cup.

9:12 But the fact that they're they're you know, doing well and moving out of the group and the one the group. I think that's exciting for US citizens and I think it's exciting for US soccer fans. So be remess. We have some soccer products coming out almost every day from different companies. So if you are a soccer fan who likes the rip packs, especially this time of year, there's no shortage of those products, all right. Venture firm seven seven six, which is led by Alex o'hannian, has been of Serena Williams, but you know a name in his own right. They have purchased on it who makes college cards, formed in twenty twenty two, so they're going to go head to head with Panini with these naal type releases on it's actually done well in recent years in a quiet in a quiet way, but there are no slouch when it comes to the producing college cards. And you know, o'hannian has stated that they are the number one manufacturers of female athletes on cards for the hobby, so that will continue. And he's tabbed Evan Parker alumnus of this

10:44 very show as his CEO coming from Mantle, which is also Ohannians one of Ohanian's ventures as well. So Evan Parker new CEO on it and an o'hannian ladventure firm now the new owner. On it. So congrats to all involved there. Cops has unveiled their new rookie basketball logo. I'll check it out online. Obviously, this is an audio podcast, so I can't show it to you per se, but it's readily available for your browsing pleasure.

11:27 I like it. I think it's very cool looking, well done. Got to give credit where it's credits due. And again we're seeing, you know, Cops rookie logos on basketball products once again. And we'll finish up with Steve Grad formerly of PSA and now formerly of Beckett. He is venturing out. He is very experienced and very knowledgeable, does his own YouTube channel and knows his stuff. Then he has been doing this for a long time. Well now he has his own company full time, so you can get your autographs, authenticated opinions. He can be a witness at a signing event and also a consultant. So Steve Grad, if you google that, I'm sure his website will come up. But we're going to reach out to to see we get him on sportscardination. So with that being said, that is the news. And now all right, let's delve back into the world of grading. And we've done plenty of shows on grading, but it's been a while, so let's a lot of things have changed, uh since we really have done a hobby quick hits on grading exclusively. Obviously, most

12:58 know PSA has a acquired SGC and now Beckett. Many people are not fond of that. Many people some people want the Federal Trade Commission getting involved in calling it a monopoly. We have recently learned that the PSA has stopped many of their cheaper bulk levels. They've increased their turnaround time. And the cheapest level, I believe is the value level, and that's an eighty around eighty dollars card. So it's going to be right now more expensive to send a card to PSA. They are talking about this will be a four month thing and then they'll revisit it.

13:47 They are in a you know, eight figure card backlog, and that's a lot of car to have in a facility or facility and be responsible for. So obviously is why the turnaround times are so bad, so they're trying to catch up. And you know, degrading card industry is not like other industries. You know, like a restaurant gets busy, you hire more staff, you build an addition onto the restaurant. Not saying that grading companies don't do either or don't do both, but they also try to stem the flow of cards so that they can catch up on the backlog as well. So that's what PSA is doing. Many had predicted that SGC would not exist at this time any longer with the acquisition. That has proven to be false.

14:43 Now you know they are not obviously the same company pre acquisition, post acquisition right and full transparency. Many might know, but some may not. I am a folk suburb for SGC and still do it. I think I'm my third year of doing it. I actually enjoy doing it, and I expected a decrease in submissions after the acquisition, and that has happened, truth be told, but not on the level that I thought. I am still getting quite the hall in cards being handed to me for SG grading, and I'm appreciative and thankful of that. Still love the brand.

15:27 I know it's not their standalone company, anymore. I get all the logistics, and their turnaround time has gone from at one point ACTUALLYC was ten to twelve days, it's now sixty to eighty. And you know you still got your CGC has made strides. Beckett now owned by the Collector's Holdings, the parent company of PSA as well, and they have a new label with that acquisition. So a lot of things going on in a grading, So let's let's tack let's tackle some topics here. You know, do I think you know PSA is too powerful? They were already pretty powerful. They were the number one greater even pre acquisition of the other two grading Do I think they have a monopoly? No, not in the truest sense of the word. But I also don't think it's maybe a great idea that they own SGC and Beckett. But I will say this, I am glad that a card manufacturer i e. Tops, Slash, Fanatics or Panini don't own a grading company at the time of this recording, and I hope it never happens. I believe that's a conflict of interest. I've said that many many times, and I always will feel and say that I hope that day never come. Then I don't care if that day comes.

16:54 I would never do business with that grading company. So fanatics about PSA or SGC or whatever grading company you want to say. That would be my end of my relationship with that grading company if I had one to begin with. But that would be the end there. You know a lot of people talking about the consistency of the grades, right, Remember these are humans that are grading these cards, and it's subjective, right. We've heard the stories of people cracking and resubmitting and get a different grade. We've even heard stories where someone's cracked and resubmitted and a card that didn't get a grade the first time, like minimum size not matter, something along those lines, got a grade the second time. So again, a lot of it's subjective. You know, people mentioned like they want all AI grading, much like TAG does. I don't mind a little AI in my grading. I just don't want all AI in migrating.

18:02 I really don't. I like the fact that a fellow human being, you know, picks that card up with gloves on and examines it, puts it on a magnification, and then gives his or her assessment. I don't want to lose that much. The same like as a baseball fan. Right, we have the ABS system now they can kind of overrule the or confirm the umpire's called. But I don't want to not see an umpire behind the plate. I don't want all AI. I believe there's a purpose for it. You know, AI has been used. It's not a new thing to grading. You know, when you send your cards tough grading company, most of them use AI and the intake on up.

18:48 You know, when they're submitted and putting them into the system. They are scanned in and you know, a bar code is given to each card with the identification of the car. So I have no problem with that. I'm not even completely opposed to like an initial AI grade with you know, the human also giving it a grade or vice versa, right, initially graded by human and then the AI sort of sort of like we're seeing with the ABS in baseball, where the you know, the computer kind of checks the work of the human. I'm not opposed to that, but I don't want one hundred percent AI. And that's nothing that I haven't said prior.

19:33 I've heard. You know what, John, these these companies have quotas. You know, they're not giving out nine's on Griffy eighty nine upper decks anymore because they they want, you know, what's out there to stay out there. They don't want to add to the population. I'm not a buyer. I'm not a believer and buyer of that theory. And I've spoken a few graders off the record who do not want their names mentioned, and I've asked them that you know, you've ever given a mandate that don't grade one higher than this or this card higher than that, And not one of them has said off the record that that's the case. And I really don't think there is. I think they can sometimes feel like there is, but I maybe I'm being optimistic, and I hope not. But I really do think that you know, they're not doing but they're not being told be very careful. I think they're being told to be very careful, careful, you know, make sure you know the grade is the grade what you're giving it.

20:36 If you're not sure, get a second opinion, if you will, a lot of people like the point fingers and point blame, right, that's what we do as folks, and you know grading is no different, and so a lot of people are blaming other people for why turnaround times are so long, and one of the things people point to is the ultra modern. Right, people are sending two dollars cards, three dollar cards, four dollar cards, five dollars. You know, you're lesser valued cards to get graded, obviously with hopes of getting the ten as obviously a ten would significantly raise the value of said cards. And you know, I get that, and but a lot of people are saying, like, you shouldn't be sending those. That's causing the backlog. That's why I can't get my cards in a reasonable fashion. And here's my answer to that. Right, this is America. If you know Jill or Jack want to send in you know they're Scott Rowland, you know, two thousand and five card that's you know, a quarter or fifty cents. Then that's their business. You might not like it, give you adjuta or make you mad, but they they're paying the freight, right, they're paying their twenty bucks or more or whatever cost the grade that card. Maybe it's a sentimental card, like who are we to tell other people what you can

22:07 or cannot send? Right? The grading companies are trying to not so much what cards to send, but they're trying to sort of do that with their pricing structure. Right, So right now, at the minimum level you can send a car to PSA at is eighty dollars, And so you're gonna pay eighty dollars no matter what card you said. It could be a Babe Ruth card, or it could be a Jose Kendo, whatever one, it's eighty dollars, right, And so now that person who has a sentimental Scott rolling card has got to decide do I now want to pay eighty dollars for that? But if they do, who are we to say you're the problem or you're what's making this backloger, You're what's causing this delay in my cards getting back in a timely fashion. I think we got to stop blaming other people. And just that's just the way it is.

23:00 If someone wants to pluck down their hard earned money to get whatever card graded, whatever card, that's that's their business. A lou geig you know, Goudy or lou gereg Conlin collection, right, that's that person prerogative. And so you know, I'm not going to be that guy. Do I wish to turn around times we're more reasonable, no doubt, No doubt I would, So I understand. I understand some of the animosity, but we were not really pointing it in the right direction. Junk wax, junk slab error. Right, that's being because of a lot of the lesser value card. You can we can label things how we want, right, Labels aren't always always accurate, right, It's maybe we just call this the grading error. Just more cards are being submitted for grading than ever before. I don't like necessarily the junk slab error term, but people have come up with and are saying that's what we're in.

24:02 So that's you. That's your prerogative to use labels, and I try not to. I might ask coming in the hobby like that's affiliated with grading, like what do you call it? Or what would you agree? Is it the junk slab era, junk slab eraror let them answer that question. But for me, we're just in the era where the more cards are getting graded or submitted for graded than ever before. You know, there's the old. Saying, right, buy the card, not the slab. I do believe that, right. I have a Jackie Robinson leaf Rookie. I have a few friends of mine that have the same card, and in a couple of cases, their card is slightly graded higher, and quite frankly, I like my card better to the I appeal than they, even their half point or full point graded higher Carding.

24:58 Mind, I wouldn't trade my card for their card. It's still listen, Jackie Robinson, Rookie is a beautiful card. I don't care really what shape it is, right, but right, you buy the card, right, any I'm a dealer. Anytime I sell a graded card off of my table, whether it's in a box loose on my table or in a lock showcase and has to be asked to be purchased or looked at, every buyer potential. Buyer is looking at the car. Even though as a grade could have a ten grade on it or a ninth grade on it. People are still going to look at the card as you should. Right, you are buying the card. It is encapsulated in a piece of plastic. You should not be necessarily buy any plastic.

25:44 Right. We've all seen some tens that, like, let's be real, shouldn't be tens. They're not tens, but they got graded a ten. Right. We've all seen nines that when we look at them, I don't see anything wrong with this. I even looked at it magnification. I don't know why this wasn't a ten. Right, So that works both ways. That's that's a two way street. So you should always buy the card first. Yes, the slabs important, Yes, the company, that grade is important. Yes, the grade on the card is a huge factor. I am not sweeping those factors under the rug. But you know, at the end of the day, you're buying that card, right, And that's what I do. Even when I go here, We're going to go to the National here in about a month a little over in a month, Right, I'm going to buy some graded cards, no doubt. And I'm going to look at any graded card I buy. I'm not just gonna say I'm taking that or I'm you know, I'm more likely say I'm interested in that. Can I take a look at it, right, And I'm going to look at that card even more closely in hand, even though I've seen it in the case, and so should you.

26:56 Right. But at the end of the. Day, I do believe with that sentiment, right, buy the card, not always the grade. You know, if you if you're looking at a ten and you see a chip corner, a chipped edge, or a ding corner in your heart or heart you know it's not a ten. Right now. You may be a flipper that says, I don't care. I'm just gonna move that card on to the next person. I'm gonna I'm gonna tell this dealer man, this card shouldn't be a ten. Look, it's got a chip corner. But what can you you know, what can you do? Charge me what a nine goes for? Right? Maybe he or she does it, I don't know, you know, But again, if I'm buying a ten, I like it to play that part right, look the row and it looks like a nine or worse, even though it says ten.

27:43 That's that's gonna that's gonna bother me. So always always look and just in general, not even that's not even a graded card thing obviously even with a raw card, even probably more so uh in a raw cups case. Right, but always buy the card, not the grade. Uh. And let me close with this. You know, I get asked quite a bit like you know, what should I send? Again, that's your your call. Now with my like bulk suc table which I have at my shows, you know, someone will hand me ten cards that knows me and I have a relationship with them, and they'll say, John, I'm only sending five on this sub what five would you send if these were your cards? They're asking me for my air quotes, expert opinion, right, or my experience opinion.

28:32 And I appreciate that they put sort of that trust and power in my hands, and I try to do the best assessment with that, and I'm very honored by that. But you know, if they're your at the end of the day, it's like I tell people to you at the shows. You know, I can tell you the five I would send, but at the end of the day, these are ten. These are your ten cards. In this scenario, I mentioned like, you just ultimately decide this is my opinion, but you decide what you want. I would tell you out there the same thing, Right, this is your hobby. You're the CEO of your hobby, your cards. You want to send something in for grading by all means do that?

29:18 You know I get asked too, should I crack this and resend it? Have you ever done that? John? I will tell you in forty years now, grading hasn't necessarily been around forty years, but in my forty years of hobby I've done that only three times. And you know, two times they got a higher grade and one time they got the exact same grade. I take that back. I take that back. One time they got the exact same grade as I cracked it out of spot on there, and one time I got a higher grade. And one the other time. Was a card that got a minimum size not met. It was a card I know I pulled out of a pack. I could one hundred percent know it was pack pulled, so I actually resent it. And and then the second time it did get a numerical grade, I'm no minimum size not met to an eight and a half.

30:13 So I've it's three occasions. I don't like to do it. You know, I have a full, full transparency. I have a Jackie Rookie and a Hank Aaron Rookie that anyone that sees those two cards are really impressed with the I appeal and said, man that that was mine. I would I would crack them and re sub them, or you know, try to cross them over and send them in the slab with like a minimum minimum grade. And so if I haven't done it, I don't foresee myself doing it. Like I said, I've only cracked and resubmitted three times. And you know, let's say twenty years of long that I've been so I tend not to do it.

30:53 I don't know why. I just don't feel great about doing it or comfortable about doing it. I know some people are probably listening to that and saying, dude, you're you're nuts, or like, what's the deal? Do it right? You know when those cards, when they're graded, they're on the population report. When you crack them out, they're still on that report, and they don't exist in that format. And I know what, plenty of people do it, and I'm not saving the planet by by not participating in that. I just I don't know. I just don't do it that often. I didn't say I never do it. I just don't do it that often. I understand why people. I don't get that upset. It's not anything that upsets me when it's just not my favorite to do.

31:37 Uh. You know, I've graded for twenty plus years. I've both subbed for three now, so have a little experience under my belt. My door is always open if you have any questions you want to pick my brain by all means, you're more than welcome to do that, but we're gonna, we're gonna bring this grading episode to a close. And I appreciate all of you out there giving your time to any of our shows that you may enjoy. So with that being said, we'll see you soon and we'll see you next